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IMX533 MONO Chip Released By SONY.


Adam J
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2 hours ago, nfotis said:

ZWO has announced two editions of the 533MM camera, one with cooling, the other without.

Price and features list remains to be seen.

N.F.

 

Well that is very very interesting as in theory it may not need cooling in milder climates.....

Certainly if ambient was 10c there would be little benefit in cooling for subs even upto 5mins.

 

Adam

 

Edited by Adam J
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10 minutes ago, Adam J said:

Well that is very very interesting as in theory it may not need cooling in milder climates.....

Certainly if ambient was 10c there would be little benefit in cooling for subs even upto 5mins.

 

Adam

 

They already make cooled/uncooled versions of mono cameras so are you saying this one is different?

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1 minute ago, scotty38 said:

They already make cooled/uncooled versions of mono cameras so are you saying this one is different?

It does not have amp glow / dark current is low and it appears to be uniform - much easier to perform dark scaling.

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37 minutes ago, scotty38 said:

They already make cooled/uncooled versions of mono cameras so are you saying this one is different?

Pritty much what vlaiv says, everything else has had amp glow so far or high dark current and you really do need stable temps for that to work.

Certainly if you had a RASA at F2 then I would think that there would really be no need for the cooled version, you could easily use 30s - 60s narrow band exposures at high gain even in 20c ambient.

Not sure if anyone had every tried the OSC version without cooling but it would be a good test if someone wanted to do it.

If it came in at under 700 pounds, ideally closer to 600 then a triple RGB / SHO imaging rig using 3 x ASKAR FMA180s for mobile work would be something i would consider.

Adam

Edited by Adam J
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It figures the mono ASI-533 would be announced right after I sold my ASI-533MCP to get an ASI-2600MCP. 

Now if I want to get the complimentary mono camera it's going to cost me much more money.   8^P

 

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Checked with the field of view calculator, and it seems that the non-cooled version of the IMX533 will hit at the Apollo-M Max sensor (almost the same area, higher resolution, half the well size). By the way, I think that a pull down menu of sensors would be nice to have (IMX432, etc)...

It remains to be seen if it works well and without banding in solar imaging applications, or moon shots.

N.F.

 

 

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I hear lots of people saying things like its not 16bit and I dont like square sensors.

For astronomy, but probably nothing else I actually like the square format easy life in terms of vignetting / flat feild / framing. This sensor would allow me to reduce my Esprit 100 to F4 or even less using something like the APEX-L with my 1.25 inch Astrodons and have no vignetting for example, saves a significant amount on filters and allows for fast optics.  As for the 16-bit thing, that really has very very little advantage over 14-bit to the point that I would call it insignificant.

It really is a strong contender, just so long as they price it closer to the 183 than the 1600 and certainly nothing close to the 294mono.

Am hoping for around £1050...if ZWO go too high then I have no problem going to QHY.

Adam

Edited by Adam J
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10 hours ago, Adam J said:

Pritty much what vlaiv says, everything else has had amp glow so far or high dark current and you really do need stable temps for that to work.

Certainly if you had a RASA at F2 then I would think that there would really be no need for the cooled version, you could easily use 30s - 60s narrow band exposures at high gain even in 20c ambient.

Not sure if anyone had every tried the OSC version without cooling but it would be a good test if someone wanted to do it.

If it came in at under 700 pounds, ideally closer to 600 then a triple RGB / SHO imaging rig using 3 x ASKAR FMA180s for mobile work would be something i would consider.

Adam

Ah ok nice one, see what you mean now....

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I currently have a 294MC and keep hanging  my nose over the 294MM.... I've just started my first ever mosaic, just 4 panels, but if I went 533MM then I guess mosaics would be even more likely but 4 panels and multiple filters, jeepers my head is in a spin already 🤣 🤣 Of course this is not a "real" issue only one that exists in my head....

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26 minutes ago, scotty38 said:

I currently have a 294MC and keep hanging  my nose over the 294MM.... I've just started my first ever mosaic, just 4 panels, but if I went 533MM then I guess mosaics would be even more likely but 4 panels and multiple filters, jeepers my head is in a spin already 🤣 🤣 Of course this is not a "real" issue only one that exists in my head....

No it is a real issue as if you had to do more panels then you are effectively slowing down your data gathering as you now need to do maybe 50% more exposure time. 

The 294mm (IMX492) is not so good a sensor as the 533 and so if your target fits on the 533 sensor or requires the same number of panels then you are likely better off with the 533. 

Adam 

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56 minutes ago, scotty38 said:

I currently have a 294MC and keep hanging  my nose over the 294MM.... I've just started my first ever mosaic, just 4 panels, but if I went 533MM then I guess mosaics would be even more likely but 4 panels and multiple filters, jeepers my head is in a spin already 🤣 🤣 Of course this is not a "real" issue only one that exists in my head....

It actually depends heavily on the target type you capture. Since you are doing mosaic I assume that may be emission or dark nebulae, no galaxy or planetary nebulae.

Then if you do only RGB frames with mono camera and filters, there is not much upgrade in terms of amount of data captured compared to OSC camera. There may be some resolution benefit.

But if you go for LRGB, then there will be more amount of data captured, and the ratio of L exposures to RGB exposures will determine this gain. Mono camera with L filter only collects about 2-3  times more data than its OSC version (depends on actual sensor model and the spectrum of the target). But you need also color data, so for real life example it will be less of course. And then processing is more time consuming. That is the price of OSC comfort :)

And if you go to narrowband or narrowband + LRGB, then it becomes more complicated, both to process and also to calculate the benefit :) 

 

 

Edited by drjolo
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25 minutes ago, Adam J said:

No it is a real issue as if you had to do more panels then you are effectively slowing down your data gathering as you now need to do maybe 50% more exposure time. 

The 294mm (IMX492) is not so good a sensor as the 533 and so if your target fits on the 533 sensor or requires the same number of panels then you are likely better off with the 533. 

Adam 

@Adam J I'm in a similar position to @scotty38, with the 294mm camera tempting me - although it would be my first dedicated astro cam. 

The new camera 533mm has piqued my interest / thrown yet another spanner in the works! 

I have an Esprit 100 and have looked at the astronomy tools field of view calculator and the ccd suitability.  I think the field of view would be more to my liking with the 294 than the 533, but as scotty said I suppose I could do mosaics.

 

What advantages do you think the 533mm would have over the 294mm?   

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37 minutes ago, Adam J said:

No it is a real issue as if you had to do more panels then you are effectively slowing down your data gathering as you now need to do maybe 50% more exposure time. 

The 294mm (IMX492) is not so good a sensor as the 533 and so if your target fits on the 533 sensor or requires the same number of panels then you are likely better off with the 533. 

Adam 

Thanks and yep I get it, my off the cuff thinking is if for any given target I need 4 panels on a 294 then I "may" need 6 on a 533 but all massively target dependent so no rule of thumb here really. One thing though if I go 533 then I can definitely stick with 1.25" filters no question. I realise it's more or less the same for the 294 but I was factoring in bigger just to make sure as it were... Either way the 533 would be less costly option overall, or at least I'm hoping it will be.

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1 hour ago, malftobe said:

@Adam J I'm in a similar position to @scotty38, with the 294mm camera tempting me - although it would be my first dedicated astro cam. 

The new camera 533mm has piqued my interest / thrown yet another spanner in the works! 

I have an Esprit 100 and have looked at the astronomy tools field of view calculator and the ccd suitability.  I think the field of view would be more to my liking with the 294 than the 533, but as scotty said I suppose I could do mosaics.

 

What advantages do you think the 533mm would have over the 294mm?   

I have an esprit 100, as above I would use the 533 along side a Riccardi reducer x0.75 or a Apex-L reducer x0.65 to get a wider FOV from it. It would also mean that unlike the 294 I would be able to keep using my expensive AD filters which are only 1.25 as they would not work with the 294 and especially not at F3.5 with the Apex L. 

Apart from that its just a cleaner sensor and the 294mono can have some calibration issues along the same lines of those people experience with the 294 OCS version, with a factor being sample to sample variation.

Its very similar to the KAF8300 vs Sony ICX694 debate from the late CCD era. 

Adam 

Edited by Adam J
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1 minute ago, The Admiral said:

Not sure why the sensor isn't centred in the cooled verson. Presumably this is a mock-up?

Ian

I've seen instances/reports of this in other cameras so I think it is a thing but cannot recall what the reasoning is.

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23 minutes ago, The Admiral said:

Not sure why the sensor isn't centred in the cooled verson. Presumably this is a mock-up?

Ian

Probably due to off-centre perspective from the wide angle camera used to shoot the image? 

 

N.F.

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37 minutes ago, Adam J said:

looks like a trick of perspective to me. 

 

 

36 minutes ago, nfotis said:

Probably due to off-centre perspective from the wide angle camera used to shoot the image? 

 

N.F.

Hmm, you might be right there !

Ian

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  • 3 weeks later...

QHYCCD have updated their China region website with details on the QHY533M (mono) and QHY533C (colour) cameras. This includes images illustrating how the front end connects to telescopes, lenses, filter wheels, keeping tilt and achieving backfocus. There's also technical specifications on the two cameras and performance charts as you'd expect to see. 

The first link below is the original website in Chinese whilst the second link shows the website routed through Google translate into English:

https://www.qhyccd.cn/qhy533m-c/

https://www-qhyccd-cn.translate.goog/qhy533m-c/?_x_tr_sl=auto&_x_tr_tl=en&_x_tr_hl=en-US&_x_tr_pto=wapp

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  • 4 weeks later...

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