Finderscope or 32mm eyepiece

[CKP_82]

I have a cheap 7x30 finderscope on my telescope that I have trouble seeing even the brightest of stars in. I use my red dot finder and then 25mm eyepiece to make sure I'm on target.

I want to start star hopping and have been watching a few videos which use both methods stated in the title. Which way would be the best to get started?

Still being a newbie to the hobby I don't want to pick one and then realise I should have picked the other!

I'm guessing it comes down to personal preference but I would like to hear different opinions if I may?

Many thanks.

[Mr Spock]

Depends on your scope. My 80mm refractor doesn't have a finder at all. I just point it at the target and go straight to a low power eyepiece. My 250mm has a 9x50 finder and it needs it. 

[Nik271]

What's the focal length of you telescope? A finderscope has field of view between 7 and 5 degrees. This helps a lot with  star hopping with stars which you may not see with naked eye. I would recommend getting a 9x50 finder, you will see a lot of stars in it. To match the view in this finder with 32 mm 1.25 inch eyepiece your telescope needs to be under 300mm focal length. Of course you can still get by with eyepiece only but the star hops need to be short, up to a degree or two at most.

Edited August 23, 2021 by Nik271

[popeye85]

If your scope is a reflector Using a RACI finderscope would be easier than using a ep for starhopping. In a ep you will be getting a mirror image so it can make the task quite frustrating. Where as in a finderscope the image you see will be "correct".

Edited August 23, 2021 by popeye85

[Peter Drew]

The only advantage I can see by using an eyepiece rather than a finder is permanent alignment.

[CKP_82]

Thanks for the advice. It seems a no brainer, a 9x50 raci it is.

The scope is a heritage 130p by the way.

[Tiny Clanger]

5 hours ago, CKP_82 said:

Thanks for the advice. It seems a no brainer, a 9x50 raci it is.

The scope is a heritage 130p by the way.

Have you fitted a standard finder shoe to your heritage , or is the cheap 7x30 finder you have one of the sort with a built in foot you fix directly to the tube ?

If the latter, you might need to drill some new holes or buy a finder shoe with slots to re-use any existing holes.

Heather

[Alan64]

I've never heard of or seen a 7x30 optical-finder, but there's a first time for everything.  Perhaps it was a typo, a 6x30 instead.

This is an 8x50 finder, albeit a straight-through, and fitted onto a 127mm reflector...

It attaches via a Vixen-type finder-shoe, or base, like this one that I installed for that 8x50, and for that reflector...

Then, a 9x50 RACI is like a small, fast refractor; a bit hefty for its size.  Would it not throw the telescope off balance?  A weight may need to be added to the solid rear of the telescope to compensate. 

I love a challenge, including this one.

[Tiny Clanger]

11 minutes ago, Alan64 said:

I've never heard of or seen a 7x30 optical-finder, but there's a first time for everything.  Perhaps it was a typo, a 6x30 instead.

This is an 8x50 finder, albeit a straight-through, and fitted onto a 127mm reflector...

It attaches via a Vixen-type finder-shoe, or base, like this one that I installed for that 8x50, and for that reflector...

Then, a 9x50 RACI is like a small, fast refractor; a bit hefty for its size.  Would it not throw the telescope off balance?  A weight may need to be added to the solid rear of the telescope to compensate. 

I love a challenge, including this one.

There is nowhere to securely mount a finder shoe on the extending part of the heritage 'scopes , my 9x50 RACI with a vixen shoe is as close to the top of the solid tube as I could get , which is only a little way from the balance point, so the weight is not a great factor .

[CKP_82]

4 hours ago, Tiny Clanger said:

Have you fitted a standard finder shoe to your heritage , or is the cheap 7x30 finder you have one of the sort with a built in foot you fix directly to the tube ?

If the latter, you might need to drill some new holes or buy a finder shoe with slots to re-use any existing holes.

Heather

The cheap finder was an all in one design so I will need to buy a shoe for the new finderscope

[Tiny Clanger]

45 minutes ago, CKP_82 said:

The cheap finder was an all in one design so I will need to buy a shoe for the new finderscope

If you are in the UK, this is probably one of the cheapest you will find, https://www.firstlightoptics.com/finders/finder-mounting-shoe.html  it's what I bought for my heritage 150 and 9x50 RACI , I don't mind that it is white against the black of the tube , besides, it is hidden most of the time under the finder foot .

The shoe includes a pair of  nuts & bolts, not all do . If you want to re-use the holes your existing finder made (it wasn't glued on was it ?) that one is unlikely to match the holes, and you'd best go for a slotted one instead. To drill the tube, you will need to first remove the primary mirror so it is safely away from any debris. I extended the front section and wrapped the secondary with a load of bubble wrap and some plastic bags .

 

[CKP_82]

@Tiny Clanger fortunately the findersscope isn't glued on. I will get a slotted design shoe to line up the holes I've already drilled.

[Alan64]

Where have you drilled the holes for the shoe?

[Alan64]

12 hours ago, Tiny Clanger said:

There is nowhere to securely mount a finder shoe on the extending part of the heritage 'scopes , my 9x50 RACI with a vixen shoe is as close to the top of the solid tube as I could get , which is only a little way from the balance point, so the weight is not a great factor .

If the finder-scope is placed directly over the fulcrum, then there might be no balancing issues whatsoever.

Edited August 24, 2021 by Alan64

[Alan64]

Incidentally, it may be prudent to get a 32mm Plossl in addition, and to complement the finder in the hunting of objects.  It would also serve as your lowest power and for the widest view of the sky.  You'll have a right cracking shot at encompassing the galaxy in Andromeda, a satisfying bit of it anyway, this fall/winter...

[John]

The ideal combination for star hopping is a red dot type finder combined with a RACI optical finder. A low power eyepiece can also help the final stages of the finding process.

If you feel that a 9x50 RACI is a little unwieldy on your Heritage 130, a 6x30 RACI is somewhat less bulky and still quite an effective finder. I use them on some of my refractors and can see stars down to around magnitude 8-9 across the 7 degree field of view of the finder which is usually enough for star hopping.

 

[doublevodka]

Depending on the 6x30 finder you have it is also possible to slightly modify it if you are careful

I had a cheap plastic one on an old scope of mine and was equally frustrated, looking at it in daylight I could see that it was massively stopped down internally

If it's anything like mine it is possible to unscrew the objective (front) assembly (carefully, making sure not to scratch or drop the lens) and not far behind the objective down the tube you will find a baffle which is just a plastic cap type assembly push fitted into the tube, slide this out (little finger wedged in the hole worked for me) and then reassemble the finder

Now your views are much brighter! The chromatic aberration will be worse because of the quality of the optics, but I found it fine for what I needed

 

That said, a raci or red dot will be much better!

[CKP_82]

@Alan64 mine is probably placed around the same area as yours. That being said when I did mine I only thought of the 6x30. I'm guessing all 9x50 racis would be of an average weight?

@Tiny Clanger where is your 9x50 raci placed on your scope?

[Zermelo]

1 hour ago, CKP_82 said:

I'm guessing all 9x50 racis would be of an average weight?

I have the Astro Essentials 9x50 RACI. It weighs 540g (including the bracket).

My 6x30 SW RACI weighs only 257g.

[Mr Spock]

I often think there's a space in the astro optical world for a low power, wide field, finder. Particularly useful for those in light polluted skies where sight or a RDF won't work so well.

[Tiny Clanger]

2 hours ago, CKP_82 said:

@Alan64 mine is probably placed around the same area as yours. That being said when I did mine I only thought of the 6x30. I'm guessing all 9x50 racis would be of an average weight?

@Tiny Clanger where is your 9x50 raci placed on your scope?

You can see it in one of the photos in the thread below.When the 'scope is closed up, the RACI stands slightly behind and tucked neatly between, the focuser and the original RDF, which I still use . That RACI is the same as Zermelo's 9x50 , I have a 6x30 one as well which lives on my maksutov . I'd have been OK with another 6x30 for the dob, but I couldn't find one for sale anywhere.

 

Edited August 24, 2021 by Tiny Clanger
spelling

[moriniboy]

This was my solution on my Heritage 150, works really well.

[CKP_82]

9 hours ago, Tiny Clanger said:

You can see it in one of the photos in the thread below.When the 'scope is closed up, the RACI stands slightly behind and tucked neatly between, the focuser and the original RDF, which I still use . That RACI is the same as Zermelo's 9x50 , I have a 6x30 one as well which lives on my maksutov . I'd have been OK with another 6x30 for the dob, but I couldn't find one for sale anywhere.

 

Thanks for the link. It was an interesting read. Your diy skills are great by the way. 

[CKP_82]

7 hours ago, moriniboy said:

This was my solution on my Heritage 150, works really well.

What kind of finderscope do you have on it? Does it not interfere with the balance when attached? 

[Tiny Clanger]

13 hours ago, moriniboy said:

This was my solution on my Heritage 150, works really well.

It looks as if you took  the RDF off ? I find mine valuable for quickly lining up on brighter objects, so I'd not want to lose it, I need all the help I can get for  finding targets ! I do have a rigel finder on another scope, but wouldn't find it easy to use the rigel if it was mounted on the lower half of the Heritage 150., yoga positions would be required to get behind and sight through it.

Does the front mounting cope with a 9x50 RACI ? I'd be concerned about the half kilo mass of the thing affecting the alignment of the secondary .