Dark nebula observing

[PeterW]

“Difficult sledding…” https://www.bbastrodesigns.com/dneb/Observing Dark Nebulae.html Mel suggests to go as dark (and transparent) as you can… I’ve never had much luck, but then I don’t to really dark skies often enough.

Peter

[jetstream]

1 hour ago, globular said:

But perhaps "special" skies?
I'll try with my 20.4ish and see how I get on.... when my 100% clouds allow.

Yes good skies mean a lot. I'm thinking the "Eagle" is your friend and Tarazed is a great guide.

[scarp15]

1 hour ago, jetstream said:

The shear number of dark neb can be overwhelming and some are extremely hard to see. I prefer the easy ones lol!  Some like more focal length, some widefield, some like more mag in a small scope etc etc.

My motto?

try everything you have lol!

I gotta repeat- no "special" scope is needed to see these! The 24" dob shows them...as does the 90mm.

That's it, you have to perhaps, with some at least 'throw everything at it'. I had used my 14" dob around Auriga expecting to identify illusive Dark Nebulae such as B29, but to no avail. Some certainly would benefit with more mag or more aperture, also required is obviously full dark adaption and to employ a touch of averted vision. Many as you say are difficult and best perhaps to keep with the relatively easier ones, which still can be tricky. Researching, looking at images or sketches, checking out observers accounts, such as on CN, definitely helps before hand, as part of the planning.

[jetstream]

Years ago I reported 2 dark patches in the NAN, another member called them the "Great lakes" or something like that. From dark skies they are easy and lie opposite to the easy "great wall" near the gulf. Some images show them and they are also worth the challenge.

@scarp15 you remember these 2 features?

Edited August 19, 2021 by jetstream

[John]

Do "the eyes" in The Owl Nebula count ?

Not lakes but small ponds of darkness perhaps ?

[globular]

1 hour ago, jetstream said:

Yes good skies mean a lot. I'm thinking the "Eagle" is your friend and Tarazed is a great guide.

[jetstream]

@globular you will see Barnards E from 20.4 skies if its transparent out. It will appear washed out grey, not black (my eyes) and if a narrow TFOV is used finding an edge is an asset. On these I like widefield views but my 15" has no problem with them. I play around with the SQM when the moon is setting to see what sky lightness does to these types of objects.

Just curious, I see you have a C8- any other scopes?

[Stardaze]

Great topic and something that I’d like to spend some time exploring. I wish you’d have posted last week when we were away under 21.6 skies ha. Funny you mention getting lost under a good sky, it’s been a year since I last experienced it as good as then and remember struggling to find Ophiuchus for a minute or two. The difference is probably needed for much of what’s been noted here but I’ll add a lot of these targets to my expanding list.

Edited August 20, 2021 by Stardaze

[globular]

7 hours ago, jetstream said:

@globular you will see Barnards E from 20.4 skies if its transparent out. It will appear washed out grey, not black (my eyes) and if a narrow TFOV is used finding an edge is an asset. On these I like widefield views but my 15" has no problem with them. I play around with the SQM when the moon is setting to see what sky lightness does to these types of objects.

Just curious, I see you have a C8- any other scopes?

At 0.5° across I thought I'd try with my N22T4 which gives 0.85°  (& 100x and 2mm exit pupil).
I'll try my XW40 too which gives 1.25° 55x and 3.75mm exit pupil - this often gives nice fairly black views although it can be a bit washed out sometimes - i.e. much more condition dependent.

The C8 is my only scope right now... I do have a long term plan to get something like a 120 ED refractor - but right now I'm loving my C8 and am far from running out of good things to point it at that work really well.  May be this dark stuff won't work too well for me in this scope and this location?  But I'll have fun trying.

[jetstream]

2 hours ago, globular said:

The C8 is my only scope right now...

They are vg scopes

2 hours ago, globular said:

May be this dark stuff won't work too well for me in this scope and this location?

Never know till you try- I think youll get Barnards E.👍

[scarp15]

10 hours ago, globular said:

but right now I'm loving my C8 and am far from running out of good things to point it at that work really well.  May be this dark stuff won't work too well for me in this scope and this location?  But I'll have fun trying.

That is the right attitude to have. Some of these dark nebulae are located near to other, such as NGC classification open clusters, a search could therefore lead to seeing some lesser considered deep sky objects, if not succeeding initially with the intended target. As you say, more than enough stuff to look at, whilst gaining an accustomed approach to visually engage with this quite specialist subject. For more longer term planning, perhaps one night B33 - which annually becomes a (hot) thread topic of its own.

[globular]

53 minutes ago, scarp15 said:

For more longer term planning, perhaps one night B33

I suspect the only horses head I'll see round these parts are in the fields down the lane.

[scarp15]

1 hour ago, globular said:

I suspect the only horses head I'll see round these parts are in the fields down the lane.

Yep it is a commitment, dark sky trip, excellent transparency and as Orion culminates are the vital ingredients. Aperture etc is for another topic.

[John]

2 hours ago, globular said:

I suspect the only horses head I'll see round these parts are in the fields down the lane.

I've managed it here (Bortle 5) a few times with my 12 inch dob. Very challenging though - probably the most challenging DSO I've managed to see.

 

[jetstream]

46 minutes ago, John said:

I've managed it here (Bortle 5) a few times with my 12 inch dob. Very challenging though - probably the most challenging DSO I've managed to see.

 

I think your zenith sky is darker than one might think...

Edited August 21, 2021 by jetstream

[globular]

2 hours ago, John said:

I've managed it here (Bortle 5) a few times with my 12 inch dob. Very challenging though - probably the most challenging DSO I've managed to see.

 

Your write-up of this is legendary.

[scarp15]

If anyone is up for a challenge, here is a listing, cannot recall where sourced from, of dark nebulae targets.

 

20210821_164132.heic 20210821_163720.heic

[scarp15]

The above listing mentions the two in North America Gerry, cannot say that I have scrutinized for these, but may yet do this season.

[scarp15]

Here to is another link of interest, this time I was able to locate and not photograph pages of printouts. This topic has sure got me digging through my filing box.

https://www.saguaroastro.org/the-best-of-barnards-dark-nebulae/

[jetstream]

9 minutes ago, scarp15 said:

Here to is another link of interest, this time I was able to locate and not photograph pages of printouts. This topic has sure got me digging through my filing box.

https://www.saguaroastro.org/the-best-of-barnards-dark-nebulae/

Many of us observe dark neb without realizing it ie the Lagoon and Triffid, great list. Observing DN that lie in bright objects could be an asset from lighter skies IMHO.

[globular]

I'm actually learning a lot about SkySafari functionality while collating these dark nebula targets into observing lists.... 🤣

[jetstream]

58 minutes ago, globular said:

I'm actually learning a lot about SkySafari functionality while collating these dark nebula targets into observing lists.... 🤣

I peruse Stellarium and also Uronometria, S&T Pocket Atlas and after a while target areas are memorized which are then "sky surfed" to see if any can be picked up. Kind of fun because finding them "out of the blue" is rewarding. Then after a while doing this allows repeated specific observations just from memory using the constellations as the only map.

An example is visiting the Wizard, after the Bubble and Lobster Claw near the Scorpion then up to the massive IC1396 (nebula) for a quick edge catch. From there many dark nebs pop out.

I love this type of observing.

[Kon]

4 hours ago, jetstream said:

Many of us observe dark neb without realizing it ie the Lagoon and Triffid, great list. Observing DN that lie in bright objects could be an asset from lighter skies IMHO.

This forum is truly an eye opener. When I viewed the Triffid I could make the dark lanes, little did I know that they were dark nebula.

 

thanks for the lists @scarp15, drawing my list; I am very excited for the next dark observation, assuming the clouds will ever move.

[scarp15]

On 19/08/2021 at 22:48, jetstream said:

Years ago I reported 2 dark patches in the NAN, another member called them the "Great lakes" or something like that. From dark skies they are easy and lie opposite to the easy "great wall" near the gulf. Some images show them and they are also worth the challenge.

@scarp15 you remember these 2 features?

Right, reading through some stuff I had, whilst creating an apirational target list, if this next new moon phase offers a credible opportunity to get out somewhere dark, I managed to locate without needing to photograph the Sue French article Navigating North America. Highly informative, very interesting, if you have not read this Gerry it is quite insightful in terms of clarifying the underlying dark nebulae regions. Barnard 353, is located near to the Birds Nest, there is also LDN 935. The descriptions, coordinates and charts are perhaps overall the most comprehensive analysis of the North America for visual scrutiny.

 https://skyandtelescope.org/wp-content/uploads/DSW_Oct2004.pdf

[scarp15]

Have not ascertained quite how accurate these references are, yet here is one further chart and with some relation to the NAN.