Worth the cost?

[popeye85]

Right I  need to ask people's opinion.

Ah the minute the biggest hole in my ep collection is a wide field.

At the minute I'm using the explore scientific range 82° and have the 6.7, 11, and 18mm for use on my 12"dob.

I'm now looking at getting the 30mm for clusters etc. FLO retail these at £309 which is fine. However I'm also starting to find my eyes drawn to the 100° version however these retail at £950!!. So why the big difference in price and how much of a difference does it really make.

Is it worth spending 3x what the 82° version costs or are the benefits not worth the tag?

Any advice would be appreciated! It would be a expensive mistake to make!!

[rl]

The ES 30mm 100 degree needs a 3" focuser...and it weighs a ton. 

Of the few reports I've read...most say it's a good eyepiece. Few call it a great eyepiece..it just does not seem to attract the universal praise some other eyepieces do. 

I'd speak to someone who owns one first. You might have trouble selling it on without taking a big hit if you can't get on with it. 

[globular]

In case you hadn't noticed, the 30mm ES 100 is a 3" eyepiece.  Can your scope handle that?
If you are limited to 2" EPs and are looking for something around 30mm then the widest undistorted FOV you can get at that fl is (theoretically) about 88 (90 with some minor distortion) ... but most quality EPs at this focal length don't go above 82 or so.
If you're all set up for 3" EPs then ignore me .... and enjoy.

[popeye85]

Right that's that settled then🤣🤣

@rl @globular

Cheers for pointing that out! No, I hadn't noticed!!!  Glad I posted now🤣🤣

[fifeskies]

I used to have the ES 82 degree 30mm , very fine eyepiece. It is a large unit though.

Appear 2nd hand around £200-220 fairly often.

In your 8 inch it will give a 5mm exit pupil which is probably about as wide as it is worth going unless you have very young eyes that can accommodate beyond that.

 

Only sold it as I do more astrophotography than visual these days :- that and the fact I used the money from it to help finance an 82 degree 22mm Nagler as my wide field eyepiece. The Nagler is a lot less unwieldy and gives superb performance.

[popeye85]

What's the quality difference between the esc and the Nagar. Again the price difference has put me in a quandary!!

[jetstream]

APM 30mm UFF?

[John]

47 minutes ago, popeye85 said:

What's the quality difference between the ES and the Nagler. Again the price difference has put me in a quandary!!

Not a great deal unless you have a really fast scope to use it in. F/4.5 or faster perhaps and the differences in correction will show.

 

[fifeskies]

I really like the contrast in the Naglar views but it is 22mm and my ES was 30mm so you would expect the sky to look darker due to the magnification difference.

I do have a fast scope I use it in and stars are very sharp over almost all the field as it is a well corrected eyepiece, but then so are the ES 82 series. 

The 22 Nagler should really be compared against the 24mm ES 82 degree but I never had one , opting for a good deal on the 2nd hand Nagler when I spotted it up for sale.

I am sure if you ask 100 people there would be some saying the Nagler is better and some saying the (24mm) ES 82, a lot can depend on the eyes of the user.

The 30mm ES 82 does give a fair bit more sky in your view, so there is that to consider if you want to look around a big area at once.

I doubt you would be disappointed with either one, buy second hand and try them out , they both keep good resale value.

 

Edited July 30, 2021 by fifeskies

[John]

With my 12 inch F/5.3 dob under my Bortle 5 skies I generally find that a 21mm eyepiece is more effective low power tool than my 31mm.

In your shoes I might be tempted to go for an ES 24mm 82 rather than the 30mm.

 

[fifeskies]

I was actually on the hunt for the 24mm ES 82 when the Nagler came up for sale , reports on the Nagler were good so I decided to give it a try , glad I did as I really like it.

 

Like John above , with my 10in dob I much prefer the 22mm power against the 30mm I had before (also in Bortle 4/5). , but that in part is perhaps down to it being much more suited to my older eyes (the 22 has a reduced exit pupil compared to the 30).

 

 

 

[popeye85]

1 hour ago, John said:

 

In your shoes I might be tempted to go for an ES 24mm 82 rather than the 30mm.

 

Cheers John. The reason I was thinking about the 30 was because I already have the 18 and would have thought that the 24 might be a bit close? 

[Pete Presland]

I know my C9.25 is F10 so quite forgiving with eyepieces, but my 22mm Nagler is my favourite eyepiece to use in it, the view is superb. 

[John]

2 hours ago, popeye85 said:

Cheers John. The reason I was thinking about the 30 was because I already have the 18 and would have thought that the 24 might be a bit close? 

I was thinking of effectiveness under my skies per £ spent. My 31mm does not get a lot of use in my 12inch dob under by Bortle 5 skies whereas my 21mm is often my eyepiece of choice for faint fuzzy hunting.

Your mileage may vary though !

[Ags]

5 hours ago, John said:

Not a great deal unless you have a really fast scope to use it in. F/4.5 or faster perhaps and the differences in correction will show.

Well, in an F4 scope a 30mm eyepiece is giving a 7.5mm exit pupil, so the F4 scope would be stopped down by the eye. So the Nagler advantage in fast scopes evaporates at long EP focal lengths...

[John]

30 minutes ago, Ags said:

Well, in an F4 scope a 30mm eyepiece is giving a 7.5mm exit pupil, so the F4 scope would be stopped down by the eye. So the Nagler advantage in fast scopes evaporates at long EP focal lengths...

True. I was referring to the optical correction though, at that time.

My later post suggested that the 24mm 82 might be a more effective choice than a 30mm in a 12 inch dob which I've presumed is the often found F/4.91 variety.

 

[popeye85]

Well despite what stellarium says-it appears that the planets are aligned!!

In the course of this thread a Nagar 31mm came up on eBay for a bit of a steal. Well who I'm I to argue with the will of the universe😁😁

Thanks everyone for their advice! I just hope I get a couple clear nights before the wife finds out what I've done 😳😳😳

Edited July 30, 2021 by popeye85

[Piero]

2 hours ago, Ags said:

Well, in an F4 scope a 30mm eyepiece is giving a 7.5mm exit pupil, so the F4 scope would be stopped down by the eye. So the Nagler advantage in fast scopes evaporates at long EP focal lengths...

Mm.. although what you say is correct, in practice an F4 newtonian requires a coma corrector. With the TV paracorr 2, the F4 becomes an F4.6, and the 30mm eyepiece delivers 6.5mm exit pupil. 

My eyes are not old and can definitely handle that exit pupil. My 30mm APM UFF gives wonderful views with my F4 dob + PC2. This works particularly well with OIII or NPB filters when observing extended nebulae.

In an F4, a 20-22mm eyepiece is also well suited and more general purpose. The 30mm is more of a dedicated eyepiece or when one wants a larger fov. It certainly has its use case though.

Edited July 30, 2021 by Piero

[Piero]

@popeye85 30 ES 82 or Nagler 31 ("the terminagler") are big and heavy beasts. It might be fine with you, but something to take in consideration.

I personally prefer eyepieces of about 500g.

[Astroscot2]

18 hours ago, jetstream said:

APM 30mm UFF?

Stunning eyepiece,   this is what I bought when looking around for a 30mm.   I find 82 deg eyepieces more than enough FOV, the APM 30mm is 70 deg and visually stunning to use.

[jetstream]

4 hours ago, Astroscot2 said:

Stunning eyepiece,   this is what I bought when looking around for a 30mm.   I find 82 deg eyepieces more than enough FOV, the APM 30mm is 70 deg and visually stunning to use.

Excellent, this is the eyepiece I should have instead of the 30 ES 82.

[Deadlake]

I may of missed but what is the SQM where you view? If it’s > 21 then the 30 mm UFF as the large exit pupil and a OIII will let you see nebula’s. If the SQM < 21  the 20 mm XWA has better contrast which will be more beneficial.

[jetstream]

7 minutes ago, Deadlake said:

I may of missed but what is the SQM where you view? If it’s > 21 then the 30 mm UFF as the large exit pupil and a OIII will let you see nebula’s. If the SQM < 21  the 20 mm XWA has better contrast which will be more beneficial.

Yes I find 5mm exit pupil very good for dark skies and 4mm the best all round exit pupil for filters use. Less than 4mm impacts the filtered views "brightness" to my eyes.One thing that can severely affect nebula views is a poor transmission OIII/UHC and or one thats bandpass is too large or in the wrong spot. IMHO.

[jetstream]

17 hours ago, John said:

My later post suggested that the 24mm 82 might be a more effective choice than a 30mm in a 12 inch dob which I've presumed is the often found F/4.91 variety.

You have an extremely well thought out scope/eyepiece/filter selection John and the views through this scope will not be lacking compared to any. The f 5ish 12" dob is perhaps the best all round scope going. Low central obstruction, great lunar/planetary resolution and very effective on nebula and galaxies.

[Andrew_B]

7 hours ago, jetstream said:

Yes I find 5mm exit pupil very good for dark skies and 4mm the best all round exit pupil for filters use. Less than 4mm impacts the filtered views "brightness" to my eyes.One thing that can severely affect nebula views is a poor transmission OIII/UHC and or one thats bandpass is too large or in the wrong spot. IMHO.

Is it necessary to have a "visual" O-III filter or is one marketed as being for imaging just as good? I've got a Baader 8.5nm O-III it works well photographically but wondered if it's worth bothering with for visual observing.