Skymax 127 sensible upgrades...

[ChrisHallett]

So I’ve just purchased a Skymax 127 and am looking at upgrading the eye pieces, it comes with a 10mm and a 25mm and I assume they are functional but could be alot better. I have the budget to buy maybe 3 replacements around £50 each.

Also would you recommend upgrading the diagonal and red dot finder or would the benefits be minimal and maybe adding a 2 x Barlow? (Budget allows)

tbh I’m learning the ropes and need a bit of advice on sensible upgrades.

thanks in advance👍
 

(Using an EQ5 mount)

EDIT: just read the thread below this regarding BST eye pieces and some good info there, just need some thats specific for this scope.

 

Edited June 5, 2021 by ChrisHallett

[Stu]

Welcome to the forum Chris. With that kind of budget, the BST Starguiders have an excellent reputation. I wouldn’t bother with a barlow, your scope has plenty long enough focal length already, so maybe grab three or four eyepieces to give you a decent spread. Perhaps the 8mm giving x187 would be a good option as a high power, with the 15 and 25mm for mid and low. Alternatively a 32mm Plossl may be handy as a low power, giving a lower power/larger exit pupil than the 25mm.

[Stu1smartcookie]

I would stick with the supplied gear for a time . You said you were just learning so there are a lot of things to learn before even thinking about upgrading . There is a reason those two EPs came with the scope . They are good FOcal Lengths . Sure there will be better EPs down the line but , don’t be in a hurry . Clear skies  

[ChrisHallett]

Thanks for the reply, appreciate it. I agree with what you’re saying but I actually bought the scope below my budget with upgrades in mind so I could get the best possible experience from this price range, anything to make it better, if possible,  is what I’m after.

Its like the push bike I ride, I bought a nice mid range steel machine because the frame was lovely but it had nasty wheels so the manufacturer could keep it in budget, I immediately upgraded them for a big gain.

Edited June 5, 2021 by ChrisHallett

[Stu1smartcookie]

Well Chris if you really want to them follow @Stu ‘s advice . Those BST EP’s are meant to be very good for the money . Good luck and welcome to the forum  

[Stu]

1 hour ago, ChrisHallett said:

EDIT: just read the thread below this regarding BST eye pieces and some good info there, just need some thats specific for this scope.

My advice was given with your scope in mind...

[ChrisHallett]

Thats fantastic, thanks Stu.

[nfotis]

I would also like to suggest a zoom EP: SVBONY 7-21mm , very useful as an all around solution.

Surprisingly good for a zoom EP with the Skymax.

N.F.

 

[Alan64]

The BST "StarGuider" series represents a great value, particularly the 8mm and 12mm.

I have a 127mm Maksutov myself.  The one thing you should know is that inexpensive eyepieces play very well with longer and long focal-length telescopes, like a Maksutov.  This 20mm has a 68° AFOV...

https://www.rothervalleyoptics.co.uk/revelation-20mm-superview-eyepiece-125.html (77x)

I have the same eyepiece, actually belonging to a relation, although I've tried it out a few times...

For your lowest power and widest view of the sky, a 32mm Plossl is suggested... https://www.365astronomy.com/32mm-gso-plossl-eyepiece (48x)

I have that one as well...

Our Maksutovs are well-known for having narrow views of the sky, even at the lower powers.  Maksutovs are like microscopes, but for the sky.  Therefore, you want the widest view possible when selecting eyepieces.  I have this 10mm 70° eyepiece(154x)...

I've had it for many years.  The view is most spacious through my longer-focus telescopes; delightful.  It is still manufactured and sold...

https://agenaastro.com/agena-10mm-super-wide-angle-swa-eyepiece.html

Astroshop.eu carries it, but for twice the price.

It does not play well with shorter focal-length telescopes, however, but it's exquisitely small and light in weight, yet powerful, and well-made.

A Maksutov already has two mirrors within its light-path.  To keep light-scattering to a minimum whilst observing brighter objects, a star-prism diagonal is suggested, and best for longer and long focal-length telescopes... https://www.harrisontelescopes.co.uk/acatalog/celestron-star-diagonal.html

If you really want to try out a barlow in future, some examples...

https://www.firstlightoptics.com/barlow-eyepieces/baader-classic-q-225x-barlow.html

I have this one, and it's a keeper... https://www.rothervalleyoptics.co.uk/antares-x2-achromat-fmc-barlow-lens-125.html

There may be an occasion or two when a barlow becomes useful, but wait until a situation arises when you feel that it might be of benefit, before deciding.

Planetary eyepieces, from 2.3mm to 6mm, generally negate the need for barlows.   Those, especially, should offer the widest view possible, of all.

To ensure the sharpest images with whichever eyepiece and accessories you choose, check the collimation of your telescope.  You can do that by conducting a star-test...

https://www.skyatnightmagazine.com/advice/how-to-star-test-a-telescope/

Polaris, the North Star, doesn't move, and therefore an ideal, but it's not particularly bright.  You can also use an artificial-star to check...

https://www.firstlightoptics.com/other-collimation-tools/hubble-optics-5-star-artificial-star.html

Never assume that your new telescope is well-collimated, particularly after a trip from overseas.  Collimation instructions for Synta's Maksutovs... 

https://www.telescope.com/assets/product_files/instructions/IN_183C_Mak-Cass_Collimation.pdf

[Geoff Lister]

Hello Chris, welcome to the forum.

I have the Skymax 127mm Mak, and I tend to start my observing sessions with my 32mm Plossl. Next, I tend to use a 8-24mm zoom, to get the best magnification/visual clarity compromise, particularly when viewing Jupiter and Saturn.

My version came with a 6x30 straight-through finderscope, and I replaced it with a 6x30 RACI version - much easier when aligning on high-altitude stars.

Geoff

Edited June 6, 2021 by Geoff Lister
added finderscope info

[Nik271]

Hi Chris, welcome to SGL!

Some very good advice above. I don't know if you've done this already but if you haven't: a dew shield is very useful on cold nights, that is all nights except maybe midsummer.

I have two Maks, one of which is the 127 Skymax. I made dew shields for both from a single foam exercise mat. Its very cheap and with Velcro straps works just as well as the custom made dew shields.

I still use the supplied diagonal after more than two years. In my view the improvements with more expensive diagonals will be very small, I've compared with a dielectric but did not find great difference. One word of advice for the diagonal: when dusty clean it only with a blower and avoid touching the mirror at all. Its not coated with anything protective and scratches very easily.

 

Enjoy your Mak, it's a great scope!

 

Nik

[ChrisHallett]

Thankyou so much for taking the time to reply everyone , much appreciated.

 

[Alan64]

Oh, yes, a dew-shield; that's an absolute must.  I didn't take my new Maksutov outdoors until I made one of black art-paper...

I made do with that until I received a proper one...

https://www.firstlightoptics.com/dew-prevention/astrozap-flexible-dew-shield.html

Yours is listed there, "127-SLT / Skymax-127 / ETX-125:  £28".

Now, you won't find a dew-shield recommended or suggested within any listing for a Schmidt- or Maksutov-Cassegrain online.  That is because their short tubes are a selling-point, an advertisement.  These telescopes appear longer with a dew-shield attached, more cumbersome, bulkier in appearance, therefore the manufacturers prefer to make no mention at all of a dew-shield, yet it is one of if not the most important accessory you can buy for one.

A dew-shield serves two purposes...

1. To keep dew, dust, dirt, pollen, and bugs off of the "lens" at the front of the telescope; you want to keep that meniscus as squeaky-clean as possible.           

2. It will help to block stray sources of light, natural and artificial, from reaching the "lens" whilst observing: Moonlight, passing automobiles, porch and street lights.

A word about zoom-oculars; I look upon one primarily as a teaching-tool.  Let's say that you find yourself observing mostly at the 12mm setting of the zoom.  You may then wish to acquire a dedicated 12mm eyepiece.  The eyepiece will be sharper, likely more contrasty, and over the zoom's equivalent. 

Then, others prefer another aspect:  a zoom is convenient, particularly for impromptu sessions, also when pressed for time.  Instead of lugging out a case of eyepieces, you carry out only a single zoom-ocular.

[John]

2 hours ago, Nik271 said:

.... I don't know if you've done this already but if you haven't: a dew shield is very useful on cold nights, that is all nights except maybe midsummer.

I have two Maks, one of which is the 127 Skymax. I made dew shields for both from a single foam exercise mat. Its very cheap and with Velcro straps works just as well as the custom made dew shields....

 

Having owned a few mak and scmidt cassegrains in the UK I would say that dew shields are pretty much an essential addition. A higher priority than any of the other upgrades with these scopes in my view.

[Steve Clay]

No1 a dew shield. This is a must have.

No2 a 32mm plossil. Wide view (ish)

No3 The hyperflex 7.5-21.3 is a very good reasonably priced zoom.

Steve 

[ChrisHallett]

2 hours ago, Steve Clay said:

No1 a dew shield. This is a must have.

No2 a 32mm plossil. Wide view (ish)

No3 The hyperflex 7.5-21.3 is a very good reasonably priced zoom.

Steve 

Thanks Steve. 
One question that springs to mind is why wouldn’t everyone just buy a zoom and not bother with lots of different eye pieces, Alan said earlier there is an inherent lack of sharpness and maybe contrast but is it that noticeable?

Edited June 6, 2021 by ChrisHallett

[Steve Clay]

49 minutes ago, ChrisHallett said:

Thanks Steve. 
One question that springs to mind is why wouldn’t everyone just buy a zoom and not bother with lots of different eye pieces, Alan said earlier there is an inherent lack of sharpness and maybe contrast but is it that noticeable?

To me with the Hyperflex the answer is no loss of sharpness or contrast. The beauty of the zoom is it will indicate to you the Focal Lengths that you like to view with. Armed with that you can buy those Ep's and sell the zoom on or keep it for travel. I have the Hyperflex and for the money it's great. I tend to keep it in my Ed 120 all the time, just swapping it with the 30mm plossil for sweeping. I have a full set of starguiders but barely use them as the zoom is so convenient.

[Tiny Clanger]

16 hours ago, ChrisHallett said:

So I’ve just purchased a Skymax 127 and am looking at upgrading the eye pieces, it comes with a 10mm and a 25mm and I assume they are functional but could be alot better. I have the budget to buy maybe 3 replacements around £50 each.

Also would you recommend upgrading the diagonal and red dot finder or would the benefits be minimal and maybe adding a 2 x Barlow? (Budget allows)

tbh I’m learning the ropes and need a bit of advice on sensible upgrades.

thanks in advance👍
 

(Using an EQ5 mount)

EDIT: just read the thread below this regarding BST eye pieces and some good info there, just need some thats specific for this scope.

 

Two vital upgrades I found my 127 mak required (rather than wanted )

1) a dew shield. I'm not one for spending money where I don't have to, so  made my own from closed cell foam and velcro stuck on using a hot glue gun (which I expected might melt the foam, but it didn't when I experimented with various sticky stuff I had to hand in lockdown )

This is the foam I used , 3mm thick, under £11, I got the second sheet for £3ish too, because ... why not ?  🙂 It's handy stuff for lining boxes etc., I made a light shroud and dew shield for my heritage dob. too , and still had some left over.

https://www.efoam.co.uk/closed-cell-polyethylene-foam.php

2) Common or garden spring clothes peg , clip it on to the focus knob, and you get the ability to make tiny adjustments gently with a fingertip without shaking the 'scope as you (or at least, I ) fumble around in the dark.

Eyepieces, some people love their zooms, I've tried and don't. I've got a range of BSTs, and while I'm not keen on the 25mm in my f5 dob, it is absolutely fine in the mak, and makes a good , reasonably priced replacement for the stock one supplied, which is itself not too bad. What is awful is the supplied 10mm, put it back in the box and get an 8mm or 12mm BST ! Which focal lengths you get is a topic with plenty of previous posts , so I'll not say more on which to buy apart from the 8mm or 12mm, and maybe the 25mm if you feel the need to replace the stock one.

To save you the effort of working out the mag, or exit pupil , here are my stats for the BSTs in the 127 mak

25mm 60x magnification,  exit pupil 2.08mm

18mm   83,3x                          "           1.5mm

15mm 100x                            "            1.25mm

12mm 125x                            "            1mm

8mm 187.5x                            "           0.6mm

 

The exit pupil becomes important for me, because any higher magnification than 8mm gives a smaller than 0.5mm  exit pupil which causes the 'floaters' in my eye to become visible.  I didn't know my old eyes had the things until I tried barlowing the 8mm (to make it effectively a 4mm) and thought there was a mysterious tangle of thread on the diagonal mirror ... nope, that's in my eye ! Which is why I've not bought a 5mm (or less) BST, the floaters would just become too intrusive. I have a 6mm ortho eyepiece , which is as far as I can push it .Apparently one (expensive) way round this is to use binoviewers which allow you to see with both eyes, and the amazing human brain puts together the info from two eyes and edits out the floaters as not part of the view.

Which brings me to not-absolutely-essential-but-keep-it-in-mind upgrades : to me the stock diagonal feels flimsy lightweight and just not good enough. As soon as I saw the chance to pounce on a better second hand one I did, and the better model gives a sharper brighter view as well as feeling more secure with heavier eyepieces . If I recall correctly, the stock diagonal has two screws to secure your eyepiece in place, which can scratch the eyepiece barrel , better ones have a single screw and a collar inside which presses on the eyepiece, avoiding any scratching as well as taking half the twiddling to tighten .

When I was looking, 6 months ago , the skywatcher di electric diagonal and this one were the same price and appeared identical , now there's a small price difference https://www.firstlightoptics.com/diagonals/stellamira-1-25-90-di-electric-diagonal.html

The SW one was what I bought second hand, and it is fine, but there are bigger better more expensive ones on offer ...there always are !

Heather

 

Edited June 6, 2021 by Tiny Clanger
stupid spell checker changing my words !

[Louis D]

Get a 50mm RACI finder.  The field of view of 127 Maks is insanely narrow.  The finder will help you get your bearings after putting the scope on target using a RDF or Telrad/QuikFinder.

[Tiny Clanger]

Part 2 : Not necessary, but worth considering when funds allow.

I found the red dot finder inadequate, the field of view of the mak is quite small ,  and I needed more help to aim  the thing at anything less bright than the Moon , planets beyond Saturn or bright stars. So, the RDF came off,and a right angle correct 6x30 finder went on ( a RACI ) . However , I missed the  RDF for those bright things ... and now the shoe was full of RACI, and no way was I dismantling the mak to drill holes in it , so I bought a Rigel Quickfinder , which has a stick on base , no drilling needed. It is a superior, non-magnifying finder which puts red circles up to aim with. Someone will be along soon to tell you telrads are wonderful, they are similar, and have many devoted fans, but are rather long for the 127mak, dew up easily (my Rigel has never yet dewed up ) and to make the illuminated circles pulse you have to buy an extra part for the Telrad, while it is built in to the Rigel.

Barlows: lots of people like them, and for the price of one barlow you can (if you have chosen focal lengths carefully ) double the number of magnifications from whatever eyepieces you own. However, personally I bought one, and don't like using it in my dob or my mak , too much faff and the quality of the BSTs seems degraded by it. 

I keep my 2x Barlow with a few plossls and the original 25mm stock eyepiece from the mak as a small cheap portable kit to go with my small cheap refractor, where it works quite well.

Heather

[Alan64]

My ES/Bresser(JOC) 127mm Maksutov has a 1900mm focal-length, an increase of 360mm.  Now, that's insane.  As a result, I got this Barska 70/300 achromat...

It arrived only as an effective 30mm f/10, but I've since opened it up to where it's supposed to be, a 70mm f/4.3.

It will be the 70mm finderscope for the Maksutov.  

Yes, you do need a good finder for a blind-as-a-bat Maksutov.

[Stu]

3 hours ago, ChrisHallett said:

Thanks Steve. 
One question that springs to mind is why wouldn’t everyone just buy a zoom and not bother with lots of different eye pieces, Alan said earlier there is an inherent lack of sharpness and maybe contrast but is it that noticeable?

With the exception of some of the top end zooms, there is generally a trade off in sharpness and field of view between the zoom and fixed focal length eyepieces. The Hyperflex is very good for the money, but not quite up there with top notch eyepieces. They are very handy though, and will perform well in the Mak.

[SuburbanMak]

Hi and welcome! 
 

I use a Skymax 127 on an AZ GTi as my main scope & love it.  Congratulations you have picked a brilliant, portable & high quality instrument and will be able to see tons of amazing things! The more I use it on a wide range of targets and look through other instruments, the more I think it’s very tough to beat at this price point & you want grab and go capability. 

Anyhoo…on upgrades, here’s my tuppenyworth…

Dew shield - a must, or some of your sessions will be a bit short  That big concave curved lens on the front is a dew magnet. I have the Astrozap dew shield  which is great and is yet to fail me in UK conditions. Equally though, I forgot it one night and used the cut-up bit of camping roll mat I use to pad the scope in its go-bag, gaffer taped on and it did a fine job! 

Finders: you can’t overdo it here as the Mak’a field is a bit on the narrow side - I have a Skwatcher 9x50 RACI finder (ie same way round as the Mak view) and a Telrad (like a red dot finder but with “gunsight” rings).  
I would make both these upgrades before any eyepieces - the SW 25mm that came with the scope is really crisp. Being able to find stuff easily massively improved my enjoyment of the scope. 
 

Eventually you’ll want an eyepiece that gets the max field of view out of the Mak  - just over 1 degree.  
That’s probably either going to be a simple 32mm Plossl with a 50 degree field (which range from £20 up to the Televue at £130) or a 24mm multi element giving 68 degree fov.  These are going to be a bit more money - I have the Baader Hyperion 24mm and can wholly recommend, super sharp & contrasty and at £97 a good mid point between the Plossls and the high end (the Televue 24mm Panoptic being the apex of this type).  This gives 63x magnification in the 127 and super views - I am just over half way through the Messier list and have used this EP as my principal DSO Hunter, pairs really well with a Baader Neodymium filter for even more contrast - it’s my galaxy spotting rig & I’ve spent many sessions using only this EP. 
 

For higher magnifications I opted for an 8-24mm zoom + a 2.25 Barlow lens that turns it into something like a 10.7 - 3.5 mm for those super clear nights and targets that will stand very high magnification. I have the Baader version which was £189 & FLO did a bundle with the  Barlow that made the whole system £239.  Any zoom will give you tremendous flexibility and although it’s nice and warm at night right now, constantly changing eyepieces when it’s minus 5 isn’t fun! 
 
If you wanted to stick to lower priced single eyepieces I can also recommend the Baader Classic Orthos - the 18mm and 10mm both work superbly well in the Mak and pair really well with the little Barlow that goes with the Baader zoom. They also have the advantage of being £49 each. These have been brilliant on Saturn & Jupiter the last couple of weeks. 

I hope that’s helpful and not just too much information  

Clear skies and have fun! 

 

Edited June 6, 2021 by SuburbanMak

[ChrisHallett]

Honestly thankyou all for your really detailed and extensive replies, can’t tell you how much they’ve helped. I’ve made notes and am making a small list of upgrades based on all your recommendations. It’s also nice to know the scope is generally well regarded.

Kind regards 

Chris

[John]

I have a Hyperflex 7.2mm - 21.5mm zoom and I've been surprised just how well it performs.

Like most zooms, the field of view is narrower at the longer focal length but in terms of sharpness I've found that it has exceeded my expectations. It's light throughput is pretty good as well which is an area that I have found that other zooms do not do so well at.

I bought it as an outreach / travel / quick look eyepiece but I've found myself using it surprisingly frequently given that I have a couple of eyepiece cases full of much, much more expensive eyepieces.

Sorry to burden you with another option