Apologies for yet another powerbank question

[nephilim]

After finally narrowing my search for a suitable remote (away from the mains & imaging sessions shouldnt exceed an optimistic 5hrs) power source I 'had' decided on this https://www.firstlightoptics.com/batteries-powerpacks/celestron-lithium-lifepo4-powertank-pro.html It will be to power my Explore Scientific EXOS-2 PMC-Eight GOTO Mount,  2x dew heaters, HitecAstro four-channel, four-port Dew Controller & a ZWO ASI 120mm 2.0 guide camera & further down the line a dedicated astro camera (this can be powered with the dew controller port). My laptop will need a separate power source. I messged Grant from FLO earlier & he says its suitable for what I want.

Ive now come across this which is vastly cheaper than the above unit (£99 rather than £214) & i'm wondering if it will do the same job as it seems to have the same connectors & actually has more power (17Ah instead of 13.2Ah) I'm useless at working out electrical things, amps drwn/needed etc & asking if anyone knows a reason to buy the much more expensive unit over the cheaper one when they 'seem' to do the same job or am I missing something? https://www.firstlightoptics.com/batteries-powerpacks/skywatcher-powertank-17ah.html

Also FLO told me that the Celestron power cable on the expensive one will fit my ES mount so im assuming it will also fit on the cheaper unit

TIA

Steve

 

[gilesco]

One is a Lead Battery encased, the other is a LifePO4.

I'm uncertain, but I think that if you fully discharge the Powertank 17ah model then it will not charge up again. While the LifePO4 is more accommodating in that scenario.

I think you would get a lot more discharge/charge cycles out of the LifePO4, than you will with the Lead Acid one.

I have the little brother of the 13.2Ah, (is it 7Ah?), and it doesn't have the oomph to power everything in my opinion... so I recently got the 17Ah ones (SkyWatcher, but it is the same product), plan to do some dry testing in this wet weather - probably this weekend.

[jonathan]

26 minutes ago, nephilim said:

Also FLO told me that the Celestron power cable on the expensive one will fit my ES mount so im assuming it will also fit on the cheaper unit

I'd say it's extremely likely that the power plug will be the same but it would definitely be worth checking both the width of the plug and the tip polarity (usually they are tip positive).

Personally I use a big old fashioned 12v leisure battery, it may be heavy but it's got a lot of ooomph!  75Ah to be precise.

[DaveL59]

a 17AH lead battery will underperform a comparable LiPo or LiFePo  and you'll see a significant volt drop once you hit 50% remaining charge or even earlier. Also never run it flat nor forget to charge it back up after a session or you'll soon have a dud battery. As a comparison it's reported that a UPS which uses dual 17AH lead will perform the same with a 10AH LiFePo battery in terms of runtime.

Sadly the LiFePo batteries do cost a lot more but are significantly lighter  and won't suffer if not recharged right away. 

[Jiggy 67]

I’ve used both to power and EQ6 R Pro. And two dew heaters, I still have one of the Skywatcher ones as a backup but this is my third as the previous two died. The LifePo is better by a country mile, I can easily do 2 x 4 hr sessions without recharge and the power output is constant throughout. It’s also a lot smaller and lighter with two usb sockets 

Edited October 29, 2020 by Jiggy 67

[nephilim]

Thanks for everyone's advice. I think i'll take the hit & buy the LiFePO4 as it sounds more reliable & much more convenient for a portable setup. I'd rather buy the best I can afford than buy twice.

Steve

[Sp@ce_d]

yeah LiFePO4's the one..  l got a couple of Tracer Batteries from FLO years ago and they are still going strong. My 24Ah - 288Wh one is amazing.. goes all night!.. unlike me these days.. 🤣  and still shows hardly any drain.. in fact I never used it from Jan 2018 until July this year when I went out with the portable rig to get some comet shots.. still showed full charge.. and just checked it now as not used since.. all lights are up.. storage life is amazing. My lead acid batteries died in less than a year & that's before I had an obsy!

[nephilim]

45 minutes ago, Sp@ce_d said:

yeah LiFePO4's the one..  l got a couple of Tracer Batteries from FLO years ago and they are still going strong. My 24Ah - 288Wh one is amazing.. goes all night!.. unlike me these days.. 🤣  and still shows hardly any drain.. in fact I never used it from Jan 2018 until July this year when I went out with the portable rig to get some comet shots.. still showed full charge.. and just checked it now as not used since.. all lights are up.. storage life is amazing. My lead acid batteries died in less than a year & that's before I had an obsy!

Definitely sounds like the right choice. Cheers mate.

[Erling G-P]

Do keep in mind that a cooled camera may have a rather high power drain.  I got a cooled DSLR from Primalucelab, bought 2nd hand and came without power supply.  I was rather shocked by the specs stating it needed a 12V 5A supply, and set out to test it.  Found a draw of 3.5A.  I have the previous SW 17Ah power tank, using it at the time to power my HEQ5 mount.  Was worried I would drain it in not much more than 4 hours if I added the camera to it.  Did a test run hooking both up, but the power LED on the mount soon started flashing, indicating too low voltage.  In other words, the power tank couldn't handle both mount & camera.  Since I've so far been imaging from my garden exclusively, I've now switched to mains adaptors instead, and run a long extension & cable drum to my equipment - to which is now added a stand-alone guider, requiring power too.  Think I would need quite a beefy battery to power everything - or several power tanks, and even with one dedicated to the camera alone, it would only be good for a relatively short session.

[nephilim]

1 hour ago, Erling G-P said:

Do keep in mind that a cooled camera may have a rather high power drain.  I got a cooled DSLR from Primalucelab, bought 2nd hand and came without power supply.  I was rather shocked by the specs stating it needed a 12V 5A supply, and set out to test it.  Found a draw of 3.5A.  I have the previous SW 17Ah power tank, using it at the time to power my HEQ5 mount.  Was worried I would drain it in not much more than 4 hours if I added the camera to it.  Did a test run hooking both up, but the power LED on the mount soon started flashing, indicating too low voltage.  In other words, the power tank couldn't handle both mount & camera.  Since I've so far been imaging from my garden exclusively, I've now switched to mains adaptors instead, and run a long extension & cable drum to my equipment - to which is now added a stand-alone guider, requiring power too.  Think I would need quite a beefy battery to power everything - or several power tanks, and even with one dedicated to the camera alone, it would only be good for a relatively short session.

Thanks for the info. I'm going to go for the LiFePO4 rather than the lead battery. I sent FLO a DM & they said it would be fine powering my set up but like you've mentioned, the other one would be pushing it.

 

[nephilim]

On 29/10/2020 at 17:19, DaveL59 said:

a 17AH lead battery will underperform a comparable LiPo or LiFePo  and you'll see a significant volt drop once you hit 50% remaining charge or even earlier. Also never run it flat nor forget to charge it back up after a session or you'll soon have a dud battery. As a comparison it's reported that a UPS which uses dual 17AH lead will perform the same with a 10AH LiFePo battery in terms of runtime.

Sadly the LiFePo batteries do cost a lot more but are significantly lighter  and won't suffer if not recharged right away. 

Thanks for replying.

I'm going for the LiFePO4 13.2 Ah as all opinions point to it been a good supply. I'm getting the Lynx Astro 4 port dew controller with DSLR power supply Aswell. I Msg'd FLO & they said once I've upgraded from DSLR to a dedicated cam the Lynx will also charge that plus the mount can connect to the Lynx aswell as the dew straps. It'll make cable management far easier.

For the laptop I'll use a separate powerbank with a USB-C connection. This power setup should keep me running easily for at least 6hrs.

Edited October 31, 2020 by nephilim

[gilesco]

12 minutes ago, nephilim said:

For the laptop I'll use a separate powerbank with a USB-C connection. This power setup should keep me running easily for at least 6hrs.

I'd be interested in knowing what power you might use for the laptop. I have a XPS 15 7590, which has a 130W AC adapter, I understand that to power from a car there is no way I could run 130W as the supply is 12V 10A max.

Currently I intend to run all software on a Raspberry Pi, and just do the initial set up via VNC on the laptop, and then monitor it via a Tablet, but it would be nicer to be able to do everything from the laptop. But this is the way I'm going to try and make the power last through the entire night.

[Shimrod]

4 minutes ago, gilesco said:

I'd be interested in knowing what power you might use for the laptop. I have a XPS 15 7590, which has a 130W AC adapter, I understand that to power from a car there is no way I could run 130W as the supply is 12V 10A max.

Currently I intend to run all software on a Raspberry Pi, and just do the initial set up via VNC on the laptop, and then monitor it via a Tablet, but it would be nicer to be able to do everything from the laptop. But this is the way I'm going to try and make the power last through the entire night.

I use one of  these for my laptop charging - although it is no longer available, there are plenty of other powerbanks around for a similar price (£30) that can do the same thing. The USB-C port puts out enough power to charge up my laptop and extends the usage time. It' small and light so even having a couple to hand isn't an issue.   

[gilesco]

23 minutes ago, Shimrod said:

charge up my laptop and extends the usage time

Yes, I guess extending the usage time is the best I can hope for.

I can power the Pi off my powertank, will go with that unless I see issues.

[nephilim]

3 hours ago, Shimrod said:

I use one of  these for my laptop charging - although it is no longer available, there are plenty of other powerbanks around for a similar price (£30) that can do the same thing. The USB-C port puts out enough power to charge up my laptop and extends the usage time. It' small and light so even having a couple to hand isn't an issue.   

Yes, that's what I'm thinking, there are quite a few available that'll easily last me a good session.

[nephilim]

2 hours ago, gilesco said:

Yes, I guess extending the usage time is the best I can hope for.

I can power the Pi off my powertank, will go with that unless I see issues.

This is the sort of thing I'm thinking of.

[Alien 13]

3 hours ago, gilesco said:

I'd be interested in knowing what power you might use for the laptop. I have a XPS 15 7590, which has a 130W AC adapter, I understand that to power from a car there is no way I could run 130W as the supply is 12V 10A max.

Currently I intend to run all software on a Raspberry Pi, and just do the initial set up via VNC on the laptop, and then monitor it via a Tablet, but it would be nicer to be able to do everything from the laptop. But this is the way I'm going to try and make the power last through the entire night.

Yikes, my laptop adapter is 240W although battery life is around 5 hours....with these kinds of loads I myself would opt for a petrol driven jobbie.

Alan

[Shimrod]

54 minutes ago, Alien 13 said:

Yikes, my laptop adapter is 240W although battery life is around 5 hours....with these kinds of loads I myself would opt for a petrol driven jobbie.

Alan

You might be better checking the specification for your battery - in my laptop it is a 3.69Ah battery, so one of these powerbanks keeps it going for quite some time. Use this calculator if your battery is specified in watt hours Wh to Ah calculator