Light Pollution - View from my garden.

[walterp]

Hello,

I am a newbie and am looking to purchase my first scope in the near future (but that is another thread)

I have taken a few photos of the view from my garden. Would the light pollution be really bad as I dont want to buy a scope only for it to be impossible to use. The orange steet lights are a pain, especially the one overlooking my garage.

The huge tree in the way does not help either.

I know it is difficult to judge just by a few photos but would ask for any comments.

The views are ( From top ) North West - South - North.

Thanks.

Walt

(click to enlarge)

(click to enlarge)

(click to enlarge)

[John]

Hi Walt - welcome to SGL

You might find the fainter deep sky objects a bit of a challenge with all those lights about but you should be OK with lunar, planetary, double stars and star clusters. You can take that into account in choosing which scope to get.

I have some similar issues to contend with and I've found that having easily portable scopes help a lot - I can move about the garden to find the best spots !.

John

John

[Coco]

Buy a dobsonian from Steve

http://www.firstlightoptics.com/products.php?cat=31

And pop it onto your back seat and find quite dark place.

.Guy

[beamish]

Better than mine ! Hya Walt

[brendant]

Hi Walt,

Nowadays we almost all have to put up with some form of light pollution, almost nobody seems to escape but with the correct filters you will find that they can improve the view considerably, you may find that by moving around your garden you can block the worst offending lights some way. You don't say wheather you wish to view visually of if imaging is your prime focus.

Visual will be tricky unless you have a large aperture scope, you will also need some light pollution filters to help, Imaging will be possible with the correct filters also but you will have lots of post processing. Don't despair it is possible just a little more difficult, there are lots of people who manage with similar conditions, I do and you can achieve remarkable results.

As John says some of the fainter stuff will be a challenge but there's lots of stuff which is possible.

Brendan

[timetraveller]

Can I suggest when you do purchase your scope you spend a little extra and invest in a Neodymium moon and skyglow filter it screws to the bottom of which ever eyepiece you choose to use andwill help filter out a great deal of the yellow sodium glow from those street lights you might also wish to speak to your local authority and suggest they replace those wholly inefficient lights with low emission energy saving ones pointing out just how much money they will save on running costs that may well get some action and if it doesn't just remind them of the governments new efficient lighting policy which they should now be implementing

regards Pete

[walterp]

Hi,

Thanks for the replies.

As I said, I am new to this and don't have much of a clue as to what is possible given my surroundings, although I have been reading up on choosing a scope and I would like to try astrophotography, as I already have a Canon 400d and I am up for a challenge.

Without going over old ground regarding first scope choices, I know I will need a decent motorised mount and the largest aperture I can afford - goto would also be nice for my first scope. (I hear cries of NOOOOOOO). My self imposed budget would be around £300, it could go higher but I dont want to spend shed loads of cash if the bug don't bite.

I have looked at a few scopes, and the ones that interest me are...

http://www.firstlightoptics.com/proddetail.php?prod=skywatcher_explorer_130p_AZ_goto&cat=133

http://www.firstlightoptics.com/proddetail.php?prod=200eq5

http://www.firstlightoptics.com/proddetail.php?prod=SW127SupaTrakAUTO

http://www.firstlightoptics.com/proddetail.php?prod=slt130

Now my head is telling me to get the Explorer 200p BUT it doesnt come with a motorised mount and I would keep losing the object.

I also like the Explorer 130p but from what I have read, these mounts are no good for photography, Why is that? Is it simply that they cannot take the weight of a camera attached to them?

My main interest is lunar and planetary, so hopefully I should be ok setting the scope up in my garden.

I have also thought about the idea of bunging the scope in the back of the car and driving off somewhere dark to view, but wouldn't I get strange looks stood in a field at midnight with only the cows for company? The Blair Witch Project also springs to mind for some reason.

Anyway, thanks for reading.

[ONSLOWE]

Walterp, I have quite a bit of light pollution in my back garden and have tried a 200 Skywatcher Dob (great views once you have found the object but difficult to shift around, awkward to store, takes time to cool down etc) and a Vixen 102 Refractor on an Eq mount (great views but again I found it tricky to find the objects). One of the main problems I found is it is difficult to star hop if many of the stars are not visible due to the light pollution or buildings being in the way etc. Also i have to store my scopes in the house so anything that takes time to cool is a pain, it either clouds over or they are soaked in dew by the time I try to observe. Most of my observing is strictly grab and go for up to about and hour and I have just bought a cheap 80mm Celestron refractor on a GOTO mount secondhand from a member of this forum (thanks again). With this scope I have just had a very entertaining 45mins taking in numerous interesting double stars, clusters and asterisms, the best quick fix astronomy I have had for ages. Obviously there were no planets available as Saturn and Jupiter are probably the best targets in light polluted areas but it shows you that you can get a good observing session from a light polluted area if you chose and find the right targets. I would go for a refractor on a GOTO mount, they are easy to use, store and provide some of the best observing because you CAN find what you are looking for !! Obviously more experianced observers can find the targets with any scope but I am inexperianced and get frustrated spending too long looking for an almost invisible and often dissapointing DSO.

Good luck with your purchase and all the best for Christmas.

Regards,

Martin

[JDWolf]

I would agree with Martin.

I had the 200 on an EQ5 mount. It is a brilliant scope and gives wonderful views of the planets, the moon and deep space objects (DSO). However i never used it to it full potential as i never really took it to a dark skies. It is a little too big and heavy to quickly set up / transport or shift around. Plus storing it is a right pain.

I've in fact just sold the 200 and bought a 80mm refractor (http://www.firstlightoptics.com/proddetail.php?prod=celestron_c80ED_ota&cat=49), so far i am very please with it. I have only seen venus with it (damn clouds), but it is so much easier to set up and store. On top of that it appears to give me as good a views as my 200 did on the planets and is more stable on top of the EQ5.

As for light pollution, Neodymium filter does help and improve visual. It certianly ahs helped me see for detail on the moon

[Psychobilly]

Hi Walterp.

Welcome to the forum..

If you want ty see what can be achieved with a short tube refractor on an SLT mount then take a look in the imaging section at the images that John (JGS001) produces... they are amazing...

I think a first scope should be one tahts fairly easy to setup and use and let you find objects easily taht way your less likely to become frustrated by not finding much ont he v ery rare clear nights...

Billy...

[Doc]

Hi

I also suffer pretty bad LP and have one of these annoying street lights very near my house. I find that 90% of my viewing is done in the East and South and thats where the constellation and planets seem to rise.

I would budget for a light pollution filter when you buy your sciope it will not remove all the skyglow but will definetly help.

Also you do not need a large aperture for astrophotography loads of people here use small refractors even down to the ZS66.

[ONSLOWE]

I have just remembered another problem I had with the Dob that occurs if you do not have much space when observing. If you have fences, bushes or trellis on top of your fences and want to look at something quite low on the horizon you can find yourself looking straight at the obstruction with the Dob scope or large reflector on a short pier / tripod. The problem I found is that a Dob is very low slung in the mount whereas if you have a smaller refractor on a tall tripod and Alt/Az mount you can look over the obstruction to observe or move it to a area of your garden that is not level and compensate with the tripod legs, not possible with a Dob and more difficult with a larger reflector. I also found that a refractor gives the best contrast which you need if light pollution is a problem. Don't get me wrong the 200 Skywatcher is a great scope but not neccessarily suitable for everybodies observing location.

[rikyuu]

hi,

I live in a terrace house, with a small garden, surrounded by trees and other houses with a dual carraigeway a few hundred metres away, but still manage to find some good DSOs through the gaps. Anything over about 30-40deg up in the sky is pretty good. My biggest problem is the never ending cloud cover!

I started with a Dob, but quickly found it was a pain in the butt to track objects at anything over 40x mag. I went through several experiments before settling on a EQ mount for the tube. I even went back to the Dobs base last week (as it's much quicker to set up) but quickly realised why I opted for the EQ. I found that for short exposure imaging (<2sec) then very rough polar alignment (ie. just point North @ 52deg) is satisfactory. And I agree, a Dob is also very low down so views are obscured by fences. An EQ mount is about 3-4foot higher

Although the 10" tube is cumbersome, it has great light gathering power, is f/5 so with a focal reducer can provide quite wide FOV with a small CCD and hence only requires short exposures with a sensitive camera

[kniclander]

hi walt - my skies are very LP'd (London suburb). There is still lots and lots to see - planets, moon and double starts don't suffer at all but clusters are wan and glaxies are virtually impossible. apparently, filters would make a very real difference to gaseous nebulae but not much to galaxies. I recently bought a 10" dob but even with the relatively large aperture, the dso's are really limited (generally the view is better through 20x100 bins). the big dob is great for the moon but I am toying with the idea of swapping it for a refractor cos the dso's are so disappointing and the frac might even be sharper on the moon.

ps your skies don't look too bad - I think it's easier to deal with immediate lights (put something over your head?) than when the whole d**n sky glows orange

[TheThing]

Another London suburbs astronomer here as well. Everything to the East of me is wahed out by London lights - a rather yukky orange like your photos. Still manage to see plenty though. It's remarkable how much more you can see thru the finder and scope tan with your eyes alone, so don't give up!

The Skywatcher 130pm is a remarkable scope and excellent for a beginner - I had one. I think it's already been mentioned, but it's worth repeating, get a copy of Turn Left at Orion as well.

[walterp]

Thanks for the welcome and all the replies.

I would like to take a few photos. Would I be able to attach my DSLR camera to this scope and get acceptable pictures?.

http://www.firstlightoptics.com/proddetail.php?prod=skywatcher_explorer_130p_AZ_goto&cat=133

I think I will settle for something like this as it is easy to set up, good for a numpty like me and I will get more use out of it as it is portable -ish.

My only concern is taking photos with it. Now I dont want them to be spectacular, just recognisable as Saturn, Jupiter etc.

Unless I hear cries of "NO- DONT BUY" then I think this will be my choice as I have a headache selcting a scope.

Cheers,

[Zaphod_B]

Hi Walter

As I said, I am new to this and don't have much of a clue as to what is possible given my surroundings, although I have been reading up on choosing a scope and I would like to try astrophotography, as I already have a Canon 400d and I am up for a challenge.

Without going over old ground regarding first scope choices, I know I will need a decent motorised mount and the largest aperture I can afford - goto would also be nice for my first scope. (I hear cries of NOOOOOOO). My self imposed budget would be around £300, it could go higher but I dont want to spend shed loads of cash if the bug don't bite.

I have looked at a few scopes, and the ones that interest me are...

http://www.firstlightoptics.com/proddetail.php?prod=skywatcher_explorer_130p_AZ_goto&cat=133

http://www.firstlightoptics.com/proddetail.php?prod=200eq5

http://www.firstlightoptics.com/proddetail.php?prod=SW127SupaTrakAUTO

http://www.firstlightoptics.com/proddetail.php?prod=slt130

Regarding your first paragraph, budget and shortlist of scopes, I would take a serious look at the Skywatcher SupaTrak 127 Auto.

Your post above says that you have almost settled on the 130p. I had a very similar scope to this (a Celestron 130 SLT) and found it VERY bulky - it is about 3' long (1m) and (obviously) 6" or 130mm in diameter but the focusser and EP sitck out another 4" or 100mm. It took up an enormous amount of room in my lounge stored on its tripod and was unweildy to both move and set up.

My main interest is lunar and planetary, so hopefully I should be ok setting the scope up in my garden.

The SupaTrak 127 Mak should cover these fine.

I have also thought about the idea of bunging the scope in the back of the car and driving off somewhere dark to view, but wouldn't I get strange looks stood in a field at midnight with only the cows for company? The Blair Witch Project also springs to mind for some reason.

Anyway, thanks for reading.

My scope now is a Maksutov-Cassegrain (an ETX-105) and the tube length is only about 12" (300mm) and is very portable. The SkyWatcher 127 is also a Mak (albeit with a larger diameter of 127mm as opposed to my ETX's 105mm) and a similar size to my ETX. I have plans to bung my scope in the boot of the car and head off to deepest Wales (where the skies are inky-black) every now and again, staying with friends. Like you, I have a Canon 400D and also plan to do astrophotography of the Sun, planets and Moon. The ETX and 127 are both suitable for these as they are bright objects and exposure times are correspondingly short. The 130 would be rather bulky to transport IMHO although would still suitable for planetary astro.

(BTW, for Deep-Sky Objects - or DSO's for short, an equatorial mount like the EQ5 mentioned by JDWolf is needed, however a mount like this costs around the £550 mark and you'd still need a telescope - or OTA - to mount on it. This is because simple Altitude/Azimuth mounts - AltAz for short - like the one on my ETX and the SupaTrak 127 Mak introduce rotation of the image as the Earth spins - even though they are tracking the object - on long exposures and DSO's need long exposures as they are much fainter than the planets or Moon)

FWIW, I would seriously look at the Skywatcher Skymax 127 SupaTrak that you have already shortlisted.

Points for:

Easy to set-up (it is a GoTo Scope)

Small so easy to store, move around and transport by car

Suitable for planetary and lunar imaging

As far as I can see, it ticks all of your boxes.

One word of caution though. ANY GoTo scope is a bit sensitive to voltage and doesn't really like being powered by batteries. Make sure you get a 12V mains adapter (or a 12V Power Tank) and you should have no problems.

Before ordering I would make a journey to a telescope shop that has both of these scopes in and take a look for yourself. The 130p being a Newtonian was (as far as I was concerned) surprisingly large & bulky. You may not find this a problem, but I'd see one "in the flesh" so to speak rather than ordering on-line and then finding out that it is much bigger than expected.

Let us know how you get on.

Merry Christmas

Art

[beamer3.6m]

That light pollution is nothing - based on that I do live in Las Vegas!

[walterp]

FWIW, I would seriously look at the Skywatcher Skymax 127 SupaTrak that you have already shortlisted.

Points for:

Easy to set-up (it is a GoTo Scope)

Small so easy to store, move around and transport by car

Suitable for planetary and lunar imaging

As far as I can see, it ticks all of your boxes.

One word of caution though. ANY GoTo scope is a bit sensitive to voltage and doesn't really like being powered by batteries. Make sure you get a 12V mains adapter (or a 12V Power Tank) and you should have no problems.Let us know how you get on.

Merry Christmas

Art

Hi Art,

I dont think the SupaTrak is a goto, otherwise I would have snapped it up without a second thought.

I know the main opinion is that goto should be avoided as I can get a much better scope for the same money without goto BUT I really like the idea of spending my time looking at objects rather than looking for them.

As I have said I am a total newb and think the lazy way will suit me until I get hooked.

I have decided to buy

http://www.firstlightoptics.com/proddetail.php?prod=skywatcher_explorer_130p_AZ_goto&cat=133

Nobody talk me out of it - the deal has been done - the order is about to be placed and I can now stop searching for the non-existant perfect scope................probably.

[blackgerby]

There is a GOTO version of the 127 see http://www.firstlightoptics.com/proddetail.php?prod=skywatcher_skymax_127_az_goto

You'd have to wait a few weeks though as it's very popular.

[walterp]

Nooooooooooo, just when I thought I had my first scope sorted another one appears which I like the look of.

Why is this scope worth £100 more than the Explorer 130p I had settled on?

http://www.firstlightoptics.com/proddetail.php?prod=skywatcher_skymax_127_az_goto

Thanks.

[beamer3.6m]

Coz it's GOTO

[walterp]

So is the Explorer 130p.

I think (double checks). Yes it is.

[beamer3.6m]

I stand corrected... and in that case do not know the answer!

[MrGlen]

Have you ordered it yet Walter?

I bet you haven't!!!!

Have you seen the Skywatcher 209udf;navkavm!!!!!!!

Sorry my brain has gone all mushy

Cheers

Glen