Alternatives to SW ED80 for DSO AP or is this the better starter scope.

[Danjc]

As the title really. I currently have a HEQ5 and a unmodified Canon 1100D that I'm currently getting to grips with. I have decided that I want a Refractor and realise that a ff will also be in order. I'm in no particular rush for the scope as I'm happy playing with the HEQ5 & DSLR for the time being but want to make sure I get things right first time if I can. The SW ED80 does seem to be a popular choice but was curious to alternatives. Budget is in the £600 mark but will be buying new as I have specified FLO vouchers for Christmas from loved ones ??

Cheers. Dan.

[Skipper Billy]

The Skywatcher ED80 takes some beating in terms of 'punch per £' and its a match made in heaven for the HEQ5 - great results with a DSLR and the matching SW flattener works very well.

A good read that will you save you a lot of money in the long run as well as a lot of hair loss and filling the swearing jar is this - https://www.firstlightoptics.com/books/making-every-photon-count-steve-richards.html  

[Danjc]

4 minutes ago, Skipper Billy said:

The Skywatcher ED80 takes some beating in terms of 'punch per £' and its a match made in heaven for the HEQ5 - great results with a DSLR and the matching SW flattener works very well.

A good read that will you save you a lot of money in the long run as well as a lot of hair loss and filling the swearing jar is this - https://www.firstlightoptics.com/books/making-every-photon-count-steve-richards.html  

Seems I'm on the right track then, I have Steve's book.....a great read. Cheers.

[david_taurus83]

For that budget you could get a wider field with a WO ZS61 and matched flattener. Better build quality and focuser than the Skywatcher. WO and TS Optics are the same OTA's I believe with maybe glass and a few add on bits being different. You haven't said if you want wider, narrower or similar FOV to the ED80?

[Danjc]

57 minutes ago, david_taurus83 said:

For that budget you could get a wider field with a WO ZS61 and matched flattener. Better build quality and focuser than the Skywatcher. WO and TS Optics are the same OTA's I believe with maybe glass and a few add on bits being different. You haven't said if you want wider, narrower or similar FOV to the ED80?

To be honest it’s not something I have looked at to much. 

I have been reading and researching that much lately that my grey matter is a bit mushed. 

 

[Danjc]

So having a look the WO scope has a fair bit of a wider FOV over the ED80, assuming I have entered the details right !

I know the WO scope in the pic is not the exact same model as you recommend but its not in there list (I have added it) but has the same focal length & aperture.

Are there any disadvantages to a wider FOV.

Dan.

 

[david_taurus83]

57 minutes ago, Danjc said:

So having a look the WO scope has a fair bit of a wider FOV over the ED80, assuming I have entered the details right !

I know the WO scope in the pic is not the exact same model as you recommend but its not in there list (I have added it) but has the same focal length & aperture.

Are there any disadvantages to a wider FOV.

Dan.

 

Great for large nebulous shots. Not so great for smaller targets, like galaxies and clusters. M31 the exception there due to its size and proximity to us. Another disadvantage is the smaller aperture. Then there's undersampling and loosing resolution. Oh, the choices we have to make!

 

Not trying to dissuade you from the SW ED80. I've not owned one but it does seem to be a firm favourite and works out of the box with its flattener, ideal for a DSLR. I probably will take a punt on one some day!

[don4l]

2 hours ago, Danjc said:

To be honest it’s not something I have looked at to much. 

I have been reading and researching that much lately that my grey matter is a bit mushed. 

 

My experience is that it doesn't matter.  Whatever you get, you will eventually want something else as well.  The ED80 is an excellent starter imaging scope.  I'm no expert, but I also find the views through the eyepiece very satisfying.

 

It is very easy to buy something a bit specialised and then discover that it is very difficult to use.  This is very unlikely to happen with the ED80.

 

This, of course, is just a personal opinion.

[wxsatuser]

For imaging it really depends on what you want to image.
You have the FOV calculator on visual so it's not quite right for imaging.

Most of the well know nebulae are very big and will not fit completely on the ED80/1100D, mosaics are very likely.
Most galaxies will be quite small except M31 which only just fits, same as globular clusters, open clusters should be ok most notable ones fit quite nicely.

As for visual the views are very nice for the price even in a light polluted area like mine.

[cletrac1922]

Dan

I am running ED80 on EQ5 mount, and no issues

Have recently purchased the SW Wi-Fi adaptor, which takes the place of the handset, and download the SynScan Pro APP

Takes the guess work out of GPS, date/time with the SynScan Controller

 

 

[Danjc]

When I popped up to RVO a few weeks ago the guy there did recommend the WO tube and the wider FOV does appeal. 

I went along to an open evening at my local astronomy society last weekend and one of the members had an ED80 setup and had a look through so kind of know what I’m getting there. 

Price wise they both come in around the same for OTA and FF but the ED80 does come with rings, finder, eyepiece, diagonal and a case something I would have to purchase separately if I opted for the WO scope. Plus my 9 year old daughter is interested so having the extra supplied bits is a plus for a spot of visual. 

Thanks all for your advice and comments it’s greatly appreciated. 

Dan. 

[smr]

I'd buy one in a heart beat if it wasn't for the focuser. I bought my HEQ5 Pro in September and am still mulling over which refractor to buy! The SW80 looks fine but I know that if I put my DSLR on it I'll get focus slip etc. and I don't want to have to going all DIY on something which has just cost me £700. Therefore I'm looking at something which isn't all that much more expensive, (about £100-150 more) when adding flatteners etc. such as the WOZ73.

Skywatcher even said themselves that it's not a good focuser for imaging and if you do buy the SW80 they recommend buying an aftermarket focuser..

[carastro]

I have a SWED80 and a WOZS71.

I have had no problems with the focusser slipping on the ED80.  

Of the two, I love the optics of the WO scope, and the faster focal ratio.  But the SWED80 is pretty good too.

On the negative side, I find the design much better on the SWED80 than the WO scope as follows:

1. WO does not have anywhere to mount a guidescope and I am no good with DIY.   The SWED80 has a findescope and brakcet which can be converted to a finderguider.  

2. WO (at least the one I have) had a stupid short foot that is no good for balancing and I had to add a longer dovetail. 

3.  WO - longer dovetail in place it was really difficult to reach the focus locking nut  to tighten/untighten it.

4. WO - has no screw thread at the focusser to enable either a click lock or screw-on FF/FR to be attached, I am currently waiting for a 3rd locking nut to be provided as this causes me tilt in my images.  Whereas the SWED80 has threads which will enable a FF/FR or a baader click lock to be attached so the camera is gripped rather than pushed from one side by two screws.

5. My WO has a retractable dew shield, but sometimes it slips down during imaging taking the dew heaters with it, which are then in the wrong place.  I noticed at a recent Astro event that some models have a bolt to stop this happening, mine doesn't.   

6. There have been issues with halos around stars with the WOZS71.

7.  Some of the early models of WO definitely had focusser slip, I think they have sorted that now. 

Having said all that, WO scopes do vary a bit, and some may have features mine does not, but just a heads up warning of things to look out for.

I have overcome a number of problems with the WO by mounting it on top of my ED80 on a Guidescope mount).  This enables the Skywatcher finder guider to be place in the ED80 (which also guides the WO scope at the same time.   

I do love the WOZS71, but I don't like some of the design features.

HTH with things to be aware of. 

Finally to say if you are going to be using a DSLR, you probably don't need such a huge FOV, because as said above some of the smaller targets will be quite small.

HTH

Carole 

[jjosefsen]

It's very easy and forgiving to use, but the skywatcher QC can be a bit so so from time to time. If had to pick again, I would have gone for the Explorer 130p-ds and a good coma corrector instead.. But maybe that's because my ED80 has some optical issues, the focuser is fine though, after getting tightened up a bit.

If you are set on a refractor, the TS Photoline series is very respected, although I can't speak from personal experience.

[smr]

Yup I'm looking at the TS Photoline 72mm, a nice 432mm focal length, with an aps-c camera it gives nice fovs on lots of nebulae - I prefer the framing of the heart and soul, and M42, as well as andromeda. 

imo the ED80 the framing, whilst good, is slightly tight on M31, M42 is fine, and again slightly too tight on the heart of the heart and soul nebulae. I also much prefer the framing of the Rosette Nebula. Then again this is for aps-c I'm talking about. Full frame would be a different story, and CCD different again.

Then again the ED80 has an increased fov so is better for smaller things, but the difference that way isn't as great imo.

The TS lens sounds great, it's basically a clone of an Astro-tech ED72II, and the WOZ73. With some small differences maybe in glass types and a few small parts being different, but on the whole all those scopes are strikingly similar. It's just that the TS is the cheapest. 

[Danjc]

9 hours ago, carastro said:

I have a SWED80 and a WOZS71.

I have had no problems with the focusser slipping on the ED80.  

Of the two, I love the optics of the WO scope, and the faster focal ratio.  But the SWED80 is pretty good too.

On the negative side, I find the design much better on the SWED80 than the WO scope as follows:

1. WO does not have anywhere to mount a guidescope and I am no good with DIY.   The SWED80 has a findescope and brakcet which can be converted to a finderguider.  

2. WO (at least the one I have) had a stupid short foot that is no good for balancing and I had to add a longer dovetail. 

3.  WO - longer dovetail in place it was really difficult to reach the focus locking nut  to tighten/untighten it.

4. WO - has no screw thread at the focusser to enable either a click lock or screw-on FF/FR to be attached, I am currently waiting for a 3rd locking nut to be provided as this causes me tilt in my images.  Whereas the SWED80 has threads which will enable a FF/FR or a baader click lock to be attached so the camera is gripped rather than pushed from one side by two screws.

5. My WO has a retractable dew shield, but sometimes it slips down during imaging taking the dew heaters with it, which are then in the wrong place.  I noticed at a recent Astro event that some models have a bolt to stop this happening, mine doesn't.   

6. There have been issues with halos around stars with the WOZS71.

7.  Some of the early models of WO definitely had focusser slip, I think they have sorted that now. 

Having said all that, WO scopes do vary a bit, and some may have features mine does not, but just a heads up warning of things to look out for.

I have overcome a number of problems with the WO by mounting it on top of my ED80 on a Guidescope mount).  This enables the Skywatcher finder guider to be place in the ED80 (which also guides the WO scope at the same time.   

I do love the WOZS71, but I don't like some of the design features.

HTH with things to be aware of. 

Finally to say if you are going to be using a DSLR, you probably don't need such a huge FOV, because as said above some of the smaller targets will be quite small.

HTH

Carole 

Very comprehensive list of pluses and minuses thanks Carole very helpful.

10 hours ago, smr said:

I'd buy one in a heart beat if it wasn't for the focuser. I bought my HEQ5 Pro in September and am still mulling over which refractor to buy! The SW80 looks fine but I know that if I put my DSLR on it I'll get focus slip etc. and I don't want to have to going all DIY on something which has just cost me £700. Therefore I'm looking at something which isn't all that much more expensive, (about £100-150 more) when adding flatteners etc. such as the WOZ73.

Skywatcher even said themselves that it's not a good focuser for imaging and if you do buy the SW80 they recommend buying an aftermarket focuser..

Thanks for the heads up on the focuser issue, it seems some have it and some don't !

 

3 hours ago, jjosefsen said:

It's very easy and forgiving to use, but the skywatcher QC can be a bit so so from time to time. If had to pick again, I would have gone for the Explorer 130p-ds and a good coma corrector instead.. But maybe that's because my ED80 has some optical issues, the focuser is fine though, after getting tightened up a bit.

If you are set on a refractor, the TS Photoline series is very respected, although I can't speak from personal experience.

Not read to much on the TS Photoline but FLO don't sell them and I have asked for FLO vouchers from santa.