It didnt go to plan - First Night Of Astrophotography

[steppenwolf]

2 hours ago, Davey-T said:

In the " good old days " folk used to guide manually with their eye glued to an illuminated reticle eyepiece for hours,  no reason in can't still be done 

Hmmmmmm, done that, didn't enjoy it one little bit!! ?

[Davey-T]

35 minutes ago, steppenwolf said:

Hmmmmmm, done that, didn't enjoy it one little bit!! ?

Didn't know you were that old Steve 

Needs must though if that's all you've got to start with.

Dave

[Charic]

2 hours ago, Scoresby said:

I have spoken to father Christmas...........

Hi there, Just a quick mention, I don't image ( yet )  but I know enough to start the process, and most of it made sense  reading this book, available here,  https://www.firstlightoptics.com/books/making-every-photon-count-steve-richards.html

Learning from someone more experienced than I, and to be honest, from someone who already knows the mistakes I could make, having  probably made a few himself,? which would in all probability, save me time money and effort in order to achieve my goal, should I progress further!

Scoresby, you already know more than I, and you're already involved in the process, but this book won't disappoint.

 

 

[Big Jim Slade]

7 hours ago, Scoresby said:

So solutions are limited to .... 

1. Start again. 2. Adapt and potentially struggle at each stage 3. Fudge 

Actually, the process of learning AP is all of those, repeatedly. Over a period of years. 

 

[Big Jim Slade]

2 hours ago, Davey-T said:

Didn't know you were that old Steve 

Needs must though if that's all you've got to start with.

Dave

Photo of Steve's first obsy:  ?

Seriously, I'm amazed by what was done on film with manual guiding. There's a bit of me (a very masochistic bit) that fancies giving it a go sometime.  

[Davey-T]

1 minute ago, Big Jim Slade said:

Seriously, I'm amazed by what was done on film with manual guiding. There's a bit of me (a very masochistic bit) that fancies giving it a go sometime.

Tried with DSLR and colour slide film, never got a decent image of anything 

Dave

[Seanelly]

This won't help with your specific troubles, but I will say that in the five weeks I have owned my complete astrophoto kit, I'm nowhere near having all my problems solved to my satisfaction, so my advice to you is to read deeply into the subject, ask as many questions as you can think of here, and this great group of enthusuastic, knowlegeable people will always supply the feedback. Even with all the help, you'll find, as I am finding, that this hobby comes with a steep learning curve. But if you're serious about results, they will arrive slowly and surely, and the satisfaction over these incremental gains feels wonderful.

[Demonperformer]

9 hours ago, Davey-T said:

In the " good old days " folk used to guide manually with their eye glued to an illuminated reticle eyepiece for hours

"In the olden days that might have been true,
But in the olden days they liked torture and slavery too!"
[from Leslie Bricusse's musical adaptation of Goodbye, Mr Chips]

[Demonperformer]

3 hours ago, Seanelly said:

having all my problems solved to my satisfaction

After 7-8 years of trying, I'm still wondering what that would be like ...

[Seanelly]

21 minutes ago, Demonperformer said:

After 7-8 years of trying, I'm still wondering what that would be like ...

Haha, I still have a long way to go, I'm thinking.

[Scoresby]

After much rummaging in dark corners of the Internet and cobbling together the information here from yesterday (thank you kindly all), I have found:

1.Duel axis drive motors with a thunderbirds type controller £100.

2. Eq5 upgrade kit £287 to £309

3. Forget it/sell it/start again £?

4. £1000.00 you can't bend it mount.

 

The general advice here and everywhere is spend now for rewards later. Which I get. 

The problems:

1. Unspecified weight capacity for the Eq5 mount. On a budget this seems a great option. Not with this mount tho. But I'm sure its been done with my setup and can be installed over a cup of tea. Done before you even break out the cherry bakewells. 

2. Must admit I'm thinking of this option. FLO don't have it in stock but will do I think. Problems: 

Maximum Payload Capacity: Approx 9kg

Eq5 weights are 10kg alone. They are counterweighted tho. ... which comes down to torque. ... here my knowledge seeped away and I started comfort eating bakewells. It does give me the tools. And FLO sell it for my set up. 

 

3. Various mounts available with synscan goto etc 

4. Can't happen. 

Many variations of the above available. 

[steppenwolf]

Astrophotography (AP) can be immensely rewarding but an uphill struggle if you have the wrong gear. The EQ5 with GoTo upgrade will still be challenged with your 200P for AP. You would still need to consider a smaller telescope.

[carastro]

I agree, if you can afford it, I would get yourself a proper EQ GOTO tracking and guiding mount such as the EQ6 (whatever the latest version is), and if you want to make life easier for yourself start with a small APO refractor. 

Now is your 200P OK for getting focus?  

Don't run before you can walk, i.e. get the right gear and learn to successfully achieve one thing at a time before trying to do the next thing.  

Carole 

[Scoresby]

14 minutes ago, carastro said:

I agree, if you can afford it, I would get yourself a proper EQ GOTO tracking and guiding mount such as the EQ6 (whatever the latest version is), and if you want to make life easier for yourself start with a small APO refractor. 

Now is your 200P OK for getting focus?  

Don't run before you can walk, i.e. get the right gear and learn to successfully achieve one thing at a time before trying to do the next thing.  

Carole 

Lol Carole that is seldom the way it works. Learn to drive in a small car work your way up through the models till you are confident to drive the big boys toys which has been superceded by: what's the insurance on this one, on that one, what's the finance on this one. Which will soon be superceded by ..... what range have the batteries got. Which one can I afford. 

 

Unfortunately I fall into the "what can I afford category" and the latest version of  .... anything really .... isn't how my world works. However I don't believe in throwing good money after bad. Hence upgrading my existing mount and seeing what it can do for me is a valuable exercise. If done properly it will increase its value and allow a better prospect for resale. If it isn't bringing the results I had hoped for then I save for side choosing an extra scope for that purpose. 

The issue I ran across with my financial choice was the max payload. 

 

And I'm afraid newest is rarely better. Contentious stand point but business isn't in the business of helping you. It's help themselves first and make things as cheaply as possible to eek a profit. This is true from pensions to smart phones. 

It isn't helped by research frankly because any video I've watched seems to have a right collection of upgrades. And many websites seem to have exactly the same mount wearing different jewellery ?

[Stub Mandrel]

18 hours ago, Scoresby said:

So solutions are limited to .... 

1. Start again. 2. Adapt and potentially struggle at each stage 3. Fudge 

I thought we weren't supposed to discuss politics...

[Stub Mandrel]

3 hours ago, Scoresby said:

After much rummaging in dark corners of the Internet and cobbling together the information here from yesterday (thank you kindly all), I have found:

1.Duel axis drive motors with a thunderbirds type controller £100.

2. Eq5 upgrade kit £287 to £309

3. Forget it/sell it/start again £?

4. £1000.00 you can't bend it mount.

A fair number of people claim good results with an HEQ5 and a 200P which will come in rather less than £1,000

It's also more portable than an EQ6 if being able to take it to a dark site matters to you.

[Scoresby]

21 minutes ago, Stub Mandrel said:

A fair number of people claim good results with an HEQ5 and a 200P which will come in rather less than £1,000

It's also more portable than an EQ6 if being able to take it to a dark site matters to you.

Now I have just been reading that very suggestion on this forum from 2012 lol. The chap had my set up and was being told the same things I am .... and that he would be better off going for a new HEQ5 if could afford it. 

His choices reflect my own.

Upgrade using a bolt on motor kit. Upgrade to the goto kit. Or HEQ5 second  hand. How funny. 

So I've had a look. Around 700+ new if you can find results. Ebay don't have. Usually part of a package deal with my scope or .... some ambiguous flipping of adverts between HEQ5 and HEQ5 pro with goto. Both seem to have the goto handset in the pictures though and there is mentions of belt driven. Which sounds .... degradable.

Also some seem to show pictures of the whole assembly for that price where other have the whole assembly for that price but they only meet the mount head. 

[Scoresby]

Right so the HEQ5 is gear driven but there is gear slipping during slewing which could be magnified under load. So some maybe many went for upgrades to a belt system which they say improved the noise/tracking/and exposure lengths achievable. 

[Davey-T]

You have to appreciate that these are mass produced mounts made to a price point and can be very variable in performance so unless you're going to lash out thousands of pounds this is the choice.

If you're into DIY you can spend many happy hours fettling it to achieve better performance, generally your average HEQ5 you should achieve 10 minutes guided images without too much stress.

Oh look more expense for guiding set up 

Dave

[adyj1]

5 hours ago, Scoresby said:

1.Duel axis drive motors with a thunderbirds type controller £100.

2. Eq5 upgrade kit £287 to £309

3. Forget it/sell it/start again £?

 

@Scoresby, let me just check - you've crossed off option 2 from your list, right? If  you spent £300 on that upgrade you'd probably have an EQ5 worth not that much more than £300... which you already know won't handle the 200p very ably for AP.

And as for belt-mod upgrades, etc, for the HEQ5 as @Davey-T says, there are always upgrades - even if you buy a £1,000 mount. Get the kit, get used to it, find out what you think needs to be improved. Patience is a virtue... 

IMHO the second-hand dual motor upgrade is your most cost-effective upgrade at the moment, (on the understanding you don't have the budget for an HEQ5). If you do end up selling to upgrade you would stand a good chance of selling them for what you paid - there's always another EQ5 owner who needs motors ?  Hopefully, once the pennies are saved, this will also buy you time to wait for the right mount to appear on the For Sale forum.

(Timing belts aren't particularly degradable, by the way. They aren't just rubber - they are nylon covered, fiberglass-reinforced neoprene. Engineered to last. And a definite improvement over gears, but not always a necessity.)

Good luck,

 

Ady

[Scoresby]

27 minutes ago, adyj1 said:

 

@Scoresby, let me just check - you've crossed off option 2 from your list, right? If  you spent £300 on that upgrade you'd probably have an EQ5 worth not that much more than £300... which you already know won't handle the 200p very ably for AP.

And as for belt-mod upgrades, etc, for the HEQ5 as @Davey-T ..................

Good luck,

 

Ady

I'm padding around looking at the options Ady. I was happy with the EQ5 upgrade until I saw the max load figure. I don't want to break them. But they aren't lifting that they are lifting some weight but it is counterbalanced. I was hoping someone who had done it would report if it was an issue. 

HEQ5 is more attractive but as I can't find one second hand I can't price it to add it as an option. 

And as the 200p seems to fail for AP particularly DSO ... a new scope will have to come in the future.

[adyj1]

18 minutes ago, Scoresby said:

And as the 200p seems to fail for AP particularly DSO

Does that mean you can't get DSLR focus because it can't go forwards enough?
Ady

[Scoresby]

55 minutes ago, adyj1 said:

Does that mean you can't get DSLR focus because it can't go forwards enough?
Ady

That's difficult to answer. Im not sure is the answer to that. What I achieved at 1 second shutter speed was almost OK.  Stars were about 1 to 1.5 mm long but clearly they had trailed. Iso was at 3200. Iso set to 6400 was noisy and if I went faster in shutter speed I lost stars. So focus was hard to assess. I didn't try that setting aimed at orions nebula as star trail elimination was a priority. But also I knew I needed longer exposures by some way.  Hence I knew tracking was the culprit. 

The reason I said the 200p appears no good for AP is because that's the general opinion expressed. If your saying that tracking would mitigate the too long focal length to some degree ? ?

 

On another point if I did upgrade using the £300.00 kit am I not actually building a HEQ5 .... I've not looked at the specs (as I couldn't find an HEQ5 for sale it seemed a moot point). And is the HEQ5 goto gubbins and drives ... not the same gubbins in the kit?

 

I cant find the 1 second at 3200 but I did take a range and this one is 4 seconds of shutter at Iso 3200. This was pointing somewhere roughly North Easterly when I tried this. 

[Stub Mandrel]

200P is longer and greater aperture than you need for many DSOs - there are many large targets. But it is perfectly usable, I have a 150PL with less aperture and even longer focal length and it does well. The 200P works well for planets.

HEQ56 is generally considered to be closer to eh EQ6 than the EQ5 in terms of its load capacity. they often appear in the classifieds here (that's where I got mine).

If yu consider a new one, take a look at FLO's website and compare the different mounts/packages: https://www.firstlightoptics.com/skywatcher-mounts.html

[Scoresby]

4 minutes ago, Stub Mandrel said:

200P is longer and greater aperture than you need for many DSOs - there are many large targets. But it is perfectly usable, I have a 150PL with less aperture and even longer focal length and it does well. The 200P works well for planets.

HEQ56 is generally considered to be closer to eh EQ6 than the EQ5 in terms of its load capacity. they often appear in the classifieds here (that's where I got mine).

If yu consider a new one, take a look at FLO's website and compare the different mounts/packages: https://www.firstlightoptics.com/skywatcher-mounts.html

Sorry Neil I cant see an HEQ56 on that link