New to Astrophotography advice-please

[Fieldsy]

Hello advice is much needed 

recently purchased a Skywatcher explorer 130p supatrak and am wishing to get a few pics of planets and ds stuff .im in a  dialema 

don’t want to gown the route of a CCD system as I don’t own a laptop and didn’t want the extra expense so decided to go down the DSLR route .

daughter has a Nikon D5000 that I can use but prefer my own stuff so was hoping around £200 can go a little over so d450 modded (£250/£290)was what I started looking at then see for a little more can get a D600 modded (£370) .so now at this price I’ve seen a few good reviews on the Nikon D5300 for a little more .And of course being a complete newb my head is spinning all advice will be appreciated and I’m fully aware its a personal opinion .

much appreciated .

 

[Stub Mandrel]

There's a good deal on a modded 450D in the classifieds.

[JohnSadlerAstro]

Hi,

Are you planning to get Solar System images or deep sky ones? If you are intending to get images of the moon or planets, you wont need to worry about getting a modified DSLR--the idea of astro-modding is to improve sensitivity at the wavelengths of hydrogen nebula clouds.

Although getting a modified DSLR is a good long-term investment, without a laptop any deep-sky imaging (i.e. imaging galaxies, star clusters, nebulae and so on) will be quite difficult so I would recommend trying out some moon snaps to start off with and see how you enjoy the hobby.

However, if you are interested in the options available for Deep-Sky imaging, look no further than the book "Making every photon count" by one of our "pro" members . It explains how all things deep-sky imaging work.

John

[Fieldsy]

Cheers John I have a mac for stacking and stuff .but as for what I intend to pic everything would be good lol .decent nebula and galaxies would be nice .as for long term investments not sure how that stands with buying a 450/600 that's already 5-10 years old for £250+ when for £400 you can buy new

Nikon d5300 24mp .

Thanks for book .

 

nice shiba pic btw

 

[Synchronicity]

http://camerajungle.co.uk/ sell second hand cameras and lenses that have been traded in at Jessops.  I've bought a few things from them, mainly because their prices are similar to ebay etc but everything comes with a years warranty.  It's well worth a look if you are considering buying second hand.

I don't work for them or have any connection, just a happy customer.

Michael

[JohnSadlerAstro]

Hi, 

A mac should run most if not all of the astronomy programs needed for Deep-Sky.

Cameras, I got an ancient 1000d second hand for about £120, then modified it myself. The only issue with going DSLR could be with your scope--there may not be quite enough inwards-focus. I'm not sure of the exact amount available with the 130P (I have the imaging version, the P-DS, which has its mirror shoved up the tube by a few cm to alter the focus point) but the 130s are very stable good visual and imaging platforms, Ive found.

What kind of mount do you have? EQ3-2?

John

[Stub Mandrel]

I  managed 3 years of DSO imaging without needing my laptop, I only use it now because I've started guiding.

The 450D in classifieds is about £165 which is vastly cheaper than buying a new camera and getting it modified.

 

[happy-kat]

As your mount tracks in tiny left right up down movements you'll be best placed to look at the No EQ DSO Challenge thread to see what others are managing with similar mounts. As far as I'm aware your telescope will not reach focus with a DSLR (natively but it might with a barlow lens) but that doesn't mean you can't get started imaging. Much can be captured using a DSLR and a camera lens whether wide field using a kit lens or a little longer like a 135-200mm lens range fitted on your mount. 

Unless you run Wine you won't be able to use Deep Sky Stacker but I saw a MAC stacking program mentioned the other day.

I'll add links later to help.

[happy-kat]

I don't have a laptop either and this doesn't stop me but I do find controlling my canon camera a breeze using an android app and my 7inch tablet or phone.

[SteveNickolls]

Hi Fieldsy, thanks for posting. The mount you have, as happy-kat mentions, is an Alt-Az mount but you could attach the camera to the mount (take off the telescope) with a suitable L bracket from FLO and take wide and moderate views of the night sky. You will be limited by a phenomenon called 'field rotation' and at best between 30-60 seconds exposures depending on where the object is in the sky (both direction and altitude), more about that here-http://calgary.rasc.ca/field_rotation.htm.

Astro-imaging can become very expensive very fast and I'd advise dipping your toe into the subject as cheaply as you can for now in case you find it isn't for you. As happy-kat says do visit the 'No EQ Challenge' thread on SGL as it has a wealth of information on it. I'm sure somewhere there is an detailed explanation of field rotation by an SGL member (The Admiral) if memory serves me correctly. If you want to know more about Alt-Az mounts do consider buying a copy of Joseph Ashley's book-https://www.firstlightoptics.com/books/astrophotography-on-the-go-book.html 

I personally wouldn't bother with buying, "Making Every Photon Count" (MEPC) right now as the author makes plain on page 44 that, "With the mount, it can be seen that one type, the Alt/Az, can immediately be disqualified as being unsuitable for deep sky work..." Quite untrue of course (as we show in the 'No EQ Challenge' thread) and it can be quite disconcerting to think one has to spend a lot of money up front on the off chance of taking up the hobby earnestly. Compare this to Joseph Ashley who managed to publish his 320 page book largely based on the crack MEPC quickly steps over. Alt-Az astro-imaging might just be the difference between you being able to try out imaging at a relatively low cost and not being able to image at all.

If you find imaging is for you many folks on here will be able to help you along the path you want to follow and that way you can avoid buying gear that you can't properly use.

I do wish you every success and lots of enjoyment trying out imaging.

Best Regards,
Steve

 

[Fieldsy]

Thanks for the reply’s and re the mount I have looked into putting camera straight onto it. But as normal with the UK weather it’s been cloudy ever since I got my hands on my daughters camera to see how the telescope works with camera attached .anyone able to comment on the Nikon D5300 looks like a good camera and curry’s is currently doing it £299 new with battery’s and remote atm .

The black Nikon D5300 DSLR Camera features a DX-format 24.2 megapixel sensor and EXPEED 4 image processor to produce high-resolution still imagery and full HD video with notable low-light sensitivity to ISO 12800 and a fast continuous shooting rate of 5 fps. The sensor design omits the traditional optical low-pass filter in order to gain the utmost sharpness and resolution from both photos and videos. Complementing the imaging assets are both a versatile 39-point autofocus system, with nine cross-type sensors, and a 2,016-pixel RGB sensor for precise exposure metering in a wide variety of lighting conditions. Additionally, 1920 x 1080p movie recording is supported, in multiple frame rates up to 60 fps, with full-time continuous auto focusing capabilities.

The compact, yet durably designed, camera body incorporates both an optical pentamirror optical viewfinder along with a large 3.2" 1,037k-dot vari-angle LCD monitor, which features a 180° swivel design to better support working from high and low angles. Also integrated into the D5300 are both Wi-Fi and GPS modules, which enable advanced image sharing capabilities as well as location-based image tagging. When paired with an Android or iOS mobile device, remote viewing and control over the shutter release is possible from a distance and a vast network of pre-populated Points of Interest adds to the overall geotagging functionality.

For creatively enhancing the look and feel of imagery in-camera, a wide range of Picture Control modes, Scene Modes, and Special Effects modes are available as well as a host of in-camera image editing capabilities for adjusting settings prior to sharing. Built-in HDR and Active D-Lighting modes can also be used to optimize exposure results by preserving highlight and shadow details for an extended range of apparent tones.

24.2MP DX-Format Sensor and EXPEED 4 Processor
The 24.2 megapixel DX-format CMOS sensor and EXPEED 4 processor work together to produce overall high image quality with notable detail, dynamic range, color accuracy, and low-light sensitivity to a native ISO 12800, which is further expandable to ISO 25600. Additionally, the sensor's design omits an optical low-pass filter in order to acquire the greatest amount of sharpness and detail from subjects. The EXPEED 4 processor also enables a wealth of speed throughout the camera system, including support for full HD 1080p movie recording and a full-resolution continuous shooting rate of 5 fps.
Multi-CAM 4800DX Autofocus Sensor
Benefitting the high image quality is an apt AF system that employs 39 distinct AF points, including nine cross-type sensors, to quickly acquire focus in a range of lighting conditions, from -1 to +19 EV. A unique 3D-tracking mode utilizes the 2,016-pixel RGB sensor, typically reserved for exposure metering, in order to maintain sharp focus on moving subjects. To better suit specific subject matters when working in AF-A or AF-C focus modes, Dynamic-area AF mode allows you to choose from 9, 21, or 39-point arrays for enhanced subject tracking and recognition, even if the subject briefly leaves the frame. Single-point AF, 3D-tracking, and Auto-area AF modes are also available.

When working in live view, for either still or movie shooting, a contrast-based AF system is employed to acquire focus precisely and can function in continuous, full-time servo mode to better suit working with moving subjects. Additionally, four AF-area modes are available when working in live view: Face-priority AF, Wide-area AF, Normal-area AF, and Subject-tracking AF.
Wi-Fi and GPS Connectivity
Supporting a wealth of sharing and tagging possibilities, the D5300 features built-in Wi-Fi and GPS modules to enable seamless transferring of imagery as well as geotagging functionality. Once the Nikon Wireless Mobile Utility app has been installed on an Android or iOS mobile device, you can use that device to browse the contents of the memory card, select images, and seamlessly transfer files between devices for immediate sharing online. Additionally, the mobile device can remotely trigger the shutter and display a live view image from the camera to enable working from a distance.

The integrated GPS functionality can be used to assign locational data to all image files for geotagging purposes and for plotting imagery to an interactive map. Points of Interest can also be found using this information to further aid in efficient location-based tagging.
Body Design
Even while maintaining an overall compact form-factor, the D5300 integrates a large 3.2" 1,037k-dot vari-angle LCD monitor, which features a 180° swivel design to better suit working from high, low, and front-facing angles. Alternatively, a bright pentamirror optical viewfinder is also integrated into the design for precise eye-level viewing and real-time monitoring of subjects.

A built-in pop-up flash is also available for additional illumination when working in low-light conditions and supports Nikon's i-TTL flash metering system. A hot shoe can be used, too, for connection and optional external flash for even greater lighting control.
Scene Recognition System and Exposure Metering
The intelligent Scene Recognition System with 3D Color Matrix Metering II utilizes a 2016-pixel RGB sensor to evaluate and analyze all aspects within a scene, including brightness, contrast, subject distance, and the scene colors, to quickly determine an accurate exposure and white balance setting to best render the scene at hand. The information gathered is also checked against onboard reference images to ensure consistency from image to image in regard to exposure, white balance, i-TTL flash settings, and subject-tracking AF performance.
Full HD Movie Recording
Full HD 1920 x 1080p movie recording is supported in 60, 30, 25, and 24 fps frame rates, as well as HD 720p and SD 480p in multiple frame rates, in the MPEG-4 AVC/H.264 format. During recording, full-time autofocus can be employed, with face-detection and subject-tracking capabilities, for ensured sharpness with a wide variety of subject types.

A built-in stereo microphone can be used to record high-quality sound or, alternatively, a microphone input is integrated into the body design to support the use of an external microphone for enhanced control over audio recordings.
Other Camera Features
Picture Control modes can be directly accessed via a dedicated button and allow you to set predefined looks to imagery in-camera, and include Landscape, Monochrome, Neutral, Portrait, Standard, Vivid, and user-customizable settings.
RAW (NEF) files can be recorded as lossless compressed or compressed at either 12 or 14-bit depth.
Built-in HDR works to extend the tonal and exposure range of a single image by recording two separate exposures and blending them together in order to gain greater highlight and shadow details with an extended range of mid-tones.
Active D-Lighting helps to preserve both highlight and shadow details when working in contrast-rich scenarios, such as backlit lighting. Utilizing the EXPEED 4 processor's power, a more controlled image will be produced with brightness values closer to how they are naturally seen. This mode is suitable for working with moving subjects.
Scene Auto Selector is an automatic mode that intelligently identifies your subject and shooting scenario, selects a proper Scene Mode to apply, and adjusts exposure settings to best render the scene at hand.
Scene Modes: Autumn Colors, Beach / Snow, Blossom, Candlelight, Child, Close-up, Dusk / Dawn, Food, Landscape, Night Landscape, Night Portrait, Party / Indoor, Pet Portrait, Portrait, Sports, and Sunset.
Special Effects Modes: Night vision, Color sketch, Toy camera, Miniature effect, Selective color, Silhouette, High key, Low key, and HDR painting.
In-Camera Image Editing Features: Color Balance, Color Outline, Color Sketch, D-Lighting, Distortion Control, Edit Movie, Filter Effects, Fisheye, Image Overlay, Miniature Effect, Monochrome, NEF (RAW) Processing, Perspective Control, Quick retouch, Red-Eye Correction, Resize, Selective Color, Side-by-Side Comparison, Straighten, and Trim

[Stub Mandrel]

These are the features of the Nikon you might find useful for AP. There are some good things there - high ISO, fold out monitor screen and fast video (though not RAW video) and lack of an anti-aliasing filter. Most of the rest is just candy (although the d-lighting is great for conventional photos, like a more natural version of HDR):

The black Nikon D5300 DSLR Camera features a DX-format 24.2 megapixel sensor and EXPEED 4 image processor to produce high-resolution still imagery and full HD video with notable low-light sensitivity to ISO 12800 and a fast continuous shooting rate of 5 fps. The sensor design omits the traditional optical low-pass filter in order to gain the utmost sharpness and resolution from both photos and videos. Complementing the imaging assets are both a versatile 39-point autofocus system, with nine cross-type sensors, and a 2,016-pixel RGB sensor for precise exposure metering in a wide variety of lighting conditions. Additionally, 1920 x 1080p movie recording is supported, in multiple frame rates up to 60 fps, with full-time continuous auto focusing capabilities.

The compact, yet durably designed, camera body incorporates both an optical pentamirror optical viewfinder along with a large 3.2" 1,037k-dot vari-angle LCD monitor, which features a 180° swivel design to better support working from high and low angles. Also integrated into the D5300 are both Wi-Fi and GPS modules, which enable advanced image sharing capabilities as well as location-based image tagging. When paired with an Android or iOS mobile device, remote viewing and control over the shutter release is possible from a distance and a vast network of pre-populated Points of Interest adds to the overall geotagging functionality.

For creatively enhancing the look and feel of imagery in-camera, a wide range of Picture Control modes, Scene Modes, and Special Effects modes are available as well as a host of in-camera image editing capabilities for adjusting settings prior to sharing. Built-in HDR and Active D-Lighting modes can also be used to optimize exposure results by preserving highlight and shadow details for an extended range of apparent tones.

24.2MP DX-Format Sensor and EXPEED 4 Processor
The 24.2 megapixel DX-format CMOS sensor and EXPEED 4 processor work together to produce overall high image quality with notable detail, dynamic range, color accuracy, and low-light sensitivity to a native ISO 12800, which is further expandable to ISO 25600. Additionally, the sensor's design omits an optical low-pass filter in order to acquire the greatest amount of sharpness and detail from subjects. The EXPEED 4 processor also enables a wealth of speed throughout the camera system, including support for full HD 1080p movie recording nd a full-resolution continuous shooting rate of 5 fps.
Multi-CAM 4800DX Autofocus Sensor
Benefitting the high image quality is an apt AF system that employs 39 distinct AF points, including nine cross-type sensors, to quickly acquire focus in a range of lighting conditions, from -1 to +19 EV. A unique 3D-tracking mode utilizes the 2,016-pixel RGB sensor, typically reserved for exposure metering, in order to maintain sharp focus on moving subjects. To better suit specific subject matters when working in AF-A or AF-C focus modes, Dynamic-area AF mode allows you to choose from 9, 21, or 39-point arrays for enhanced subject tracking and recognition, even if the subject briefly leaves the frame. Single-point AF, 3D-tracking, and Auto-area AF modes are also available.

When working in live view, for either still or movie shooting, a contrast-based AF system is employed to acquire focus precisely and can function in continuous, full-time servo mode to better suit working with moving subjects. Additionally, four AF-area modes are available when working in live view: Face-priority AF, Wide-area AF, Normal-area AF, and Subject-tracking AF.
Wi-Fi and GPS Connectivity
Supporting a wealth of sharing and tagging possibilities, the D5300 features built-in Wi-Fi and GPS modules to enable seamless transferring of imagery as well as geotagging functionality. Once the Nikon Wireless Mobile Utility app has been installed on an Android or iOS mobile device, you can use that device to browse the contents of the memory card, select images, and seamlessly transfer files between devices for immediate sharing online. Additionally, the mobile device can remotely trigger the shutter and display a live view image from the camera to enable working from a distance.

The integrated GPS functionality can be used to assign locational data to all image files for geotagging purposes and for plotting imagery to an interactive map. Points of Interest can also be found using this information to further aid in efficient location-based tagging.
Body Design
Even while maintaining an overall compact form-factor, the D5300 integrates a large 3.2" 1,037k-dot vari-angle LCD monitor, which features a 180° swivel design to better suit working from high, low, and front-facing angles. Alternatively, a bright pentamirror optical viewfinder is also integrated into the design for precise eye-level viewing and real-time monitoring of subjects.

A built-in pop-up flash is also available for additional illumination when working in low-light conditions and supports Nikon's i-TTL flash metering system. A hot shoe can be used, too, for connection and optional external flash for even greater lighting control.
Scene Recognition System and Exposure Metering
The intelligent Scene Recognition System with 3D Color Matrix Metering II utilizes a 2016-pixel RGB sensor to evaluate and analyze all aspects within a scene, including brightness, contrast, subject distance, and the scene colors, to quickly determine an accurate exposure and white balance setting to best render the scene at hand. The information gathered is also checked against onboard reference images to ensure consistency from image to image in regard to exposure, white balance, i-TTL flash settings, and subject-tracking AF performance.
Full HD Movie Recording
Full HD 1920 x 1080p movie recording is supported in 60, 30, 25, and 24 fps frame rates, as well as HD 720p and SD 480p in multiple frame rates, in the MPEG-4 AVC/H.264 format. During recording, full-time autofocus can be employed, with face-detection and subject-tracking capabilities, for ensured sharpness with a wide variety of subject types.

A built-in stereo microphone can be used to record high-quality sound or, alternatively, a microphone input is integrated into the body design to support the use of an external microphone for enhanced control over audio recordings.
Other Camera Features
Picture Control modes can be directly accessed via a dedicated button and allow you to set predefined looks to imagery in-camera, and include Landscape, Monochrome, Neutral, Portrait, Standard, Vivid, and user-customizable settings.
RAW (NEF) files can be recorded as lossless compressed or compressed at either 12 or 14-bit depth.
Built-in HDR works to extend the tonal and exposure range of a single image by recording two separate exposures and blending them together in order to gain greater highlight and shadow details with an extended range of mid-tones.
Active D-Lighting helps to preserve both highlight and shadow details when working in contrast-rich scenarios, such as backlit lighting. Utilizing the EXPEED 4 processor's power, a more controlled image will be produced with brightness values closer to how they are naturally seen. This mode is suitable for working with moving subjects.
Scene Auto Selector is an automatic mode that intelligently identifies your subject and shooting scenario, selects a proper Scene Mode to apply, and adjusts exposure settings to best render the scene at hand.
Scene Modes: Autumn Colors, Beach / Snow, Blossom, Candlelight, Child, Close-up, Dusk / Dawn, Food, Landscape, Night Landscape, Night Portrait, Party / Indoor, Pet Portrait, Portrait, Sports, and Sunset.
Special Effects Modes: Night vision, Color sketch, Toy camera, Miniature effect, Selective color, Silhouette, High key, Low key, and HDR painting.
In-Camera Image Editing Features: Color Balance, Color Outline, Color Sketch, D-Lighting, Distortion Control, Edit Movie, Filter Effects, Fisheye, Image Overlay, Miniature Effect, Monochrome, NEF (RAW) Processing, Perspective Control, Quick retouch, Red-Eye Correction, Resize, Selective Color, Side-by-Side Comparison, Straighten, and Trim

:

[Fieldsy]

It also has the olpf removed that’s good right ?

 

[Stub Mandrel]

31 minutes ago, Fieldsy said:

It also has the olpf removed that’s good right ?

 

Yes, that's the anti-aliasing filter, but it makes images sharper it doesn't increase sensitivity like astro modding does.

[JohnSadlerAstro]

Not much I can add to the above, lots of very sound advice.

I would personally recommend either a) buying a pre-modded camera or b ) getting a pro to mod your camera. I did mod my 1000d successfully, but I would not encourage others to do the same, its a dangerous game in lots of ways. (The 1000d is the easiest canon DSLR to modify, anyways.) 

John

[happy-kat]

Note that moding a Nikon is like hens teeth, I have not read oddles of sucess stories there so if you want modded get a second hand modded Canon, cheap and it works.

[happy-kat]

The No EQ DSO Challenge thread.

https://stargazerslounge.com/topic/228101-the-no-eq-dso-challenge/?page=1

Link to post on this thread user has the same setup I think, they altered their telescope.

link here and link here

The MAC stacking software I have seen mentioned by users using them are as follows: some are free, I have not used any so if you have WINE then Deep Sky Stacker is a given and is free.

Lynkeos

Affinity

Autostakkert

 

 

 

 

[Stub Mandrel]

2 hours ago, happy-kat said:

Note that moding a Nikon is like hens teeth, I have not read oddles of sucess stories there so if you want modded get a second hand modded Canon, cheap and it works.

I've modded two, but the first time I broke the sensor being clumsy removing the glass.

 

[JohnSadlerAstro]

8 minutes ago, Stub Mandrel said:

I've modded two, but the first time I broke the sensor being clumsy removing the glass.

Meanwhile, I did the opposite, broke the glass and got it in my eye!

[fozzybear]

I bought a canon 450d from Cameral jungle low shutter count this year I paid 98 quid including shoulder strap not needed,  battery and charger also viewfinder cover and all manuals and software I have a Nikon 5300 but wanted to keep this for normal photography (Daylight) as not many modified for astro use. as all the software for astro photography is able to cope with the 450d i.e  APT or byeos. I went down that route a cheap outlay albeit non modded and if I want to go further then I will look to get it modified.  there is one on camera jungle with 2,279 shutter count for 110-00 quid. just a thought + 12 months guarantee.

happy hunting

Andy

[Fieldsy]

Thanks for all the replies

I've ended up going down the route of a ccd as the mount and tripod were more than a  bit unsteady once the dslr body and barlow were hanging of the side .so I reckon the dialema has already been answered for me.

Si

[happy-kat]

Hope you have great fun with it and look forward to seeing some images.

If you have a CCD then you may find OACapture will work for you, it is mak based and was written by a member on here.

[Mr niall]

I know it’s over budget but I just bought this;

https://www.currys.co.uk/gbuk/cameras-and-camcorders/digital-cameras/dslr-and-compact-system-cameras/canon-eos-1300d-dslr-camera-with-ef-s-18-55-mm-f-3-5-5-6-iii-ef-75-300-mm-f-4-5-6-iii-lens-10145230-pdt.html

i am finding the 300mm lens (yes it is super budget) is more than enough for the majority of stuff I am trying (short of stuff like m27 or m51 or m57) but I like the whole “complete solution” aspect and can still use in the daytime! 

[Art Gecko]

A lot of good advice on here! Just thought I'd add a couple of points:

1: if you go for a ccd, be aware there both colour and mono ccds... if you go for a mono, have room in your budget for filters! 

2: I have a 130p and I had to cut 20mm off the back and refit the mirror to gain focus.. so you may need to do a bit of diy.

3: if you're running a Mac, lynkeos is good, it's technically for planetary work, but I got good enough results doing DSO work with it... also DSS will work through wineskin on some versions of OSX but not others, either way make sure you have plenty of RAM!

4: with Nikon, the D5xxx series should be fine, but watch out for the D3xxx series, they have connectivity issues with many AP programs! I say this just because I struggled for a long time with my Nikon and recently gave up and bought a modded canon.

hope that helps in some small way, good luck and clear skies! Art

[Fieldsy]

Hi guys

How good should the spec on the laptop for a ccd camera be ?.

As I would just want the laptop to record gonna look into splitting mac hardrive to run Windows so imaging work would be on this and not the laptop.