Best telescope Under £450 for DS0s?

[Space Monkey]

Hi all, 

have decided to join this forum after reading lots of different posts and have learnt a lot, know much more now then I did in the beginning. So I’d thought I would create a thread so that you would be able to help. So I’ll start to tell you abit about me and what I’m looking for. I’ve been interested in space and the science side of it for about 4 years now and every time Most of it blows my mind even if I don’t understand all of it  . I have been using some binoculars to get me started as I’ve never owned ( or even looked through a scope before)  but can’ really see much as they’re fairly low powered. Now I’ve read that the dobsonians are the best bang for your buck when it comes to light gathering. However I would like one but concerned about the weight I was looking at the 250px and seems abit heavy here are some things that I’ve noted down that I would like from a telescope and hopefully this might help you. I’m not looking for goto as that seems to up the price and I’ll get less.  I’m a bit of a weakling so nothing to heavy.

Storage

Will be storing it in the garage though it will be a tight fit but don’t have room in the house I’ll have to walk down only one step to the garden from the garage but don’t want to walk with something too heavy.

Where will I be using it?

Mainly garden but as it’s south facing I can’t really see things behind the house and but have a wide view of the south and some of the east/west so maybe something a bit portable so I can walk to near by fields ( no car) 

What do I want to see?

as stated in title most of the DSOs as that’s what I’m most interested in examples:

Planetary nebulae,Emission nebulae ect

Galaxys 

globular clusters

 

I live in the countryside but between two main towns however my exact location light pollution isn’t bad. I’ve tried to put down as much info as I can to help

Thanks for all the help in advanced 

sorry for the long post  

 

[Louis D]

First off, what do your skies look like beyond being semi-rural?  Can you see the Milky Way?  Can you see all of the stars of the Little Dipper?  Are high clouds brightly lit or look like holes on the sky?  Can you see your way around your yard without additional light?  I ask because if you have bright skies, seeing galaxies is next to impossible except for the brightest galaxy cores.  Nebula can be seen with help from a nebula filter to increase contrast by blocking out light pollution.  However, not all nebula benefit from such filters.  Star clusters are visible from most locations with enough magnification.  Planets are visible pretty much everywhere, though they may be quite low on the horizon from England.

[Louis D]

I would start with an 8" Dob because it's slower and easier to collimate than a 10" and it's lighter when it comes time to move it around.  If you like what you see, I would then recommend a jump to a 12" or larger Dob in the future because that's where the increase in aperture really becomes apparent.  However, due to the size and weight, you're much less likely to get it out than the 8" scope.

[Space Monkey]

8 minutes ago, Louis D said:

First off, what do your skies look like beyond being semi-rural?  Can you see the Milky Way?  Can you see all of the stars of the Little Dipper?  Are high clouds brightly lit or look like holes on the sky?  Can you see your way around your yard without additional light?  I ask because if you have bright skies, seeing galaxies is next to impossible except for the brightest galaxy cores.  Nebula can be seen with help from a nebula filter to increase contrast by blocking out light pollution.  However, not all nebula benefit from such filters.  Star clusters are visible from most locations with enough magnification.  Planets are visible pretty much everywhere, though they may be quite low on the horizon from England.

Hi, I can see most stars from the constellations and just make out andromeda with naked eye clouds aren’t lit up from lights I probably have about 5 streetlights by my road but are faraway from my house and usually dim anyway and I need a torch to see around my garden  and clouds do look like holes 

[ShrewView]

Hello and welcome to the forum.

There are lots of great folk on here who will be able to help out with this one.

A few things to consider here I suppose. Yes a dob probably is best for the price when it comes to what you get for the money and would be great for looking at the DSO's you say you are interested in most, but they can be a little bulky once you get beyond 200mm. A 200mm or 8 inch is what lots of folk start with and can last you years. If you have a hatchback car then a 200mm dob is transportable enough, as long as you can lift it in. Only you know how strong you are and since you say you've never looked through a scope I think my main suggestion would be to start by finding a local club or society that you could visit and see other people's scopes and try them out if possible.

Also a book like Turn Left at Orion might be useful to give you an idea of what you'll see. What we actually see at the eyepiece usually looks quite different to the lovely images posted here so its good to know what you can really expect to see.

Take your time choosing since the stars aren't going anywhere soon, and then enjoy.

[Space Monkey]

6 minutes ago, ShrewView said:

Hello and welcome to the forum.

There are lots of great folk on here who will be able to help out with this one.

A few things to consider here I suppose. Yes a dob probably is best for the price when it comes to what you get for the money and would be great for looking at the DSO's you say you are interested in most, but they can be a little bulky once you get beyond 200mm. A 200mm or 8 inch is what lots of folk start with and can last you years. If you have a hatchback car then a 200mm dob is transportable enough, as long as you can lift it in. Only you know how strong you are and since you say you've never looked through a scope I think my main suggestion would be to start by finding a local club or society that you could visit and see other people's scopes and try them out if possible.

Also a book like Turn Left at Orion might be useful to give you an idea of what you'll see. What we actually see at the eyepiece usually looks quite different to the lovely images posted here so its good to know what you can really expect to see.

Take your time choosing since the stars aren't going anywhere soon, and then enjoy.

Thanks for the advice, when browsing this forum before I joined I’d seen lots of people recommend that book and have been reading it seems to be really helpful. However I don’t live near anywhere local for me to look at scopes or clubs unfortunately so it’s going to be hard for me to judge ( have been looking up on YouTube to try and get the scale )  I do have a raised patio area on the other side of my garage as it’s separate from the house.which I’m thinking it my be my permanent observing spot but I can only see about two directions from there. If I was having a heavy scope that’s probably how I’d do it 

[Louis D]

1 minute ago, Space Monkey said:

Hi, I can see most starts from the constellations and just make out andromeda with naked eye clouds aren’t lit up from lights I probably have about 5 streetlights by my road but are faraway from my house and usually dim anyway and I need a torch to see around my garden  

 

4 minutes ago, Space Monkey said:

However I don’t live near anywhere local for me to look at scopes or clubs unfortunately

So, you do have fairly dark skies that will lend themselves well to hunting down faint fuzzies.  Lacking a store or club with a good collection of telescopes to actually try to lift the ones you are interested in, pay particular attention to the listed weight of the various components a given scope breaks down into.  For instance, an 8" Dob breaks down into two much more manageable pieces, but that requires two trips.

[tuckstar]

I've got the skywatcher 250px skyliner and I love it. The base is the same size as the 8" and the tube is the same length just aperture is obviously more. It does weigh a little bit more but I manage to lug it about with no problems. It sits nicely across the rear seats of a 5 door car and the base in the boot. 

Dobs are easily modded and I put setting circles and a digital angle gauge on mine making it a push to system with the help of a good app.

[Space Monkey]

11 minutes ago, Louis D said:

 

So, you do have fairly dark skies that will lend themselves well to hunting down faint fuzzies.  Lacking a store or club with a good collection of telescopes to actually try to lift the ones you are interested in, pay particular attention to the listed weight of the various components a given scope breaks down into.  For instance, an 8" Dob breaks down into two much more manageable pieces, but that requires two trips.

That’s one of the main things I’ve beeen looking at I couldn’t really find a definite weight but found it on the skywatchers main site. I was thinking if it’s too heavy I could mod the base and add wheels ( heavy duty ones)  would this be possible? And probably put a ramp on the step so can be wheeled into the garden. Just want to get something worth while so i can take advantage of the conditions.

[tuckstar]

Lots of the dob mob have wheels in some form or other but you might not need it for a 200 or a 250. 

[Space Monkey]

Apart from reflectors  sre there any other type of scope that would be good for what I would like to see or are reflectors the best one for this type of thing ?

[Cosmic Geoff]

1 hour ago, Space Monkey said:

Apart from reflectors  sre there any other type of scope that would be good for what I would like to see or are reflectors the best one for this type of thing ?

For your quoted budget, a Newtonian reflector is the only option for looking at DSOs. A SCT on a GoTo mount would be easier to move around, more convenient to use generally and have the advantage of being able to find and track things.  But it will cost about four or five times more than a Dobsonian!

Don't even think about an 8" refractor. 

[Red Dwarfer]

Easy answer - a 200P and ES 40mm 62 degree eyepiece .

You mentioned scale , have a look at these charts to give you a rough idea of the different sizes .

 

[Space Monkey]

6 hours ago, Red Dwarfer said:

Easy answer - a 200P and ES 40mm 62 degree eyepiece .

You mentioned scale , have a look at these charts to give you a rough idea of the different sizes .

 

Thanks kind of puts it into perspective, I guess the best bet is to go with the 200p. On The skywatcher website it says the ota weight is 11kg is this about right? Not sure if I’d spend that amount all at once on a eyepiece straight away, might save up a bit more for eyepieces  after I get the scope  

[Astro Imp]

1 hour ago, Space Monkey said:

Not sure if I’d spend that amount all at once on a eyepiece straight away, might save up a bit more for eyepieces  after I get the scope

That is a very sensible approach, use the eyepieces that come with the scope to familiarise yourself with the kit. Only buy additional eyepieces when you see a need.

BTW your choice of an 8" Dob is an excellent one, from your location you will see loads.

Good luck and enjoy.

[Red Dwarfer]

Good idea on the lens front . The 25mm kit lens is quite good actually ...

The only reason I recommended the 40mm was because you did specify £450 in the question , the 200P is £300 plus the lens £150 = £450 

 

 

[Space Monkey]

31 minutes ago, Red Dwarfer said:

Good idea on the lens front . The 25mm kit lens is quite good actually ...

The only reason I recommended the 40mm was because you did specify £450 in the question , the 200P is £300 plus the lens £150 = £450 

 

 

I did work that out after you posted  but will keep in mind of those eyepieces.

[Red Dwarfer]

The BST ED Starguider lenses are excellent lenses too and I`ve seen them new on eBay for £38 each ...  

[fiestazetecmk2]

Dobsonian. 200p .is a fabulous choice. Will do most things.and at a reasonable cost.IMHO. 

[Louis D]

16 hours ago, Space Monkey said:

That’s one of the main things I’ve beeen looking at I couldn’t really find a definite weight but found it on the skywatchers main site. I was thinking if it’s too heavy I could mod the base and add wheels ( heavy duty ones)  would this be possible? And probably put a ramp on the step so can be wheeled into the garden. Just want to get something worth while so i can take advantage of the conditions.

You can certainly put wheels under the Dob and haul it around garden wagon style.  For the bigger dobs, most folks opt for detachable wheelbarrow handles.

15 hours ago, Cosmic Geoff said:

A SCT on a GoTo mount would be easier to move around

I'll take issue with this statement.  I find it much easier to pick up a fully assembled 8" Dob with side handles and, hugging it close to my body, move it around my backyard to dodge obstructions to see different parts of the sky during the night than moving a fully assembled 8" SCT around the yard.  The SCT is awkward with the tripod legs fully extended and very top heavy with no really good place to safely grab the whole thing and hug it close to my center of gravity.  Sure, the SCT could be put on wheeley bars, but so could the Dob as described above.

[Red Dwarfer]

7 minutes ago, Louis D said:

I find it much easier to pick up a fully assembled 8" Dob with side handles and, hugging it close to my body, move it around my backyard to dodge obstructions to see different parts of the sky during the night

That`s exactly what I do with mine . Just tighten the handles first , then walk penguin style to another part of the back garden with it intact . When I bring it down one flight of stairs to set it up however , this is easier done in two parts , base first then OTA .

[Cosmic Geoff]

I have no problem moving my fully assembled 8" SCT. I put one hand over the OTA and under the edge of the base, and grip the dovetail bar with the other hand to steady it. The whole thing weighs little more than the OTA of a Dob of the same aperture.  A fully assembled Dob + base is both bulkier and heavier than the SCT assembly.

I strained my back at work a couple of times lifting awkward weights in the region of 20KG so I am wary of lifting heavy objects.

[Louis D]

3 minutes ago, Red Dwarfer said:

walk penguin style

I had a good chuckle.  I suppose we would look a bit like penguins shuffling about the Antarctic.  Good thing I usually observe alone.

[Louis D]

3 minutes ago, Cosmic Geoff said:

A fully assembled Dob + base is both bulkier and heavier than the SCT assembly.

I was thinking in terms of moving a GEM mounted SCT with counterweights attached, not a fork mounted one.  Those counterweights weigh a surprising amount when put out on the end of a longish moment arm.  I suppose the newer goto mounts are quite light.  I have no idea how heavy the tripods are, though.

I do pick up my DSV-2B on a heavy duty Manfrotto tripod with both an ED72 and 127 Mak attached with a single hand around the DSV's pier extension.  Fully loaded, it's getting close to the weight of the 8" Dob.

8 minutes ago, Cosmic Geoff said:

I strained my back at work a couple of times lifting awkward weights in the region of 20KG so I am wary of lifting heavy objects.

Understood.  I ripped my back up pretty good about 17 years ago in a high speed, nearly head-on automobile crash.  I never could lift my kids, let alone telescopes, the same way again.  I have to be really careful and steady, no jerking motions.

[Space Monkey]

26 minutes ago, Louis D said:

You can certainly put wheels under the Dob and haul it around garden wagon style.  For the bigger dobs, most folks opt for detachable wheelbarrow handles.

I'll take issue with this statement.  I find it much easier to pick up a fully assembled 8" Dob with side handles and, hugging it close to my body, move it around my backyard to dodge obstructions to see different parts of the sky during the night than moving a fully assembled 8" SCT around the yard.  The SCT is awkward with the tripod legs fully extended and very top heavy with no really good place to safely grab the whole thing and hug it close to my center of gravity.  Sure, the SCT could be put on wheeley bars, but so could the Dob as described above.

I think it would be easier putting it on a trolley underneath I was thinking something like this and as you said a handle but I doubt those wheels would work well on grass.