H.N. Irving & Son 3" Refractor?

[nightfisher]

2 minutes ago, Stu said:

Are you not looking at a 150mm f6?

That is about the only scope i would consider othewise i am happy with the 127 Mak and 90mm opticstar widefield

[Alien 13]

8 minutes ago, nightfisher said:

That is about the only scope i would consider othewise i am happy with the 127 Mak and 90mm opticstar widefield

I think I would be happy with those too... I have a similar pairing but scaled down a little, perfik in my opinion.

Alan

[F15Rules]

4 hours ago, Stu said:

Could give that f15 a try Jules?

How about trying THIS F15??

Dave, this is my former D&G 5"  F15 USA built achromat, "Andromeda", now lovingly owned by Steve ("Saganite") and properly pier/EQ6 mounted by him (Steve's photo?).

The second picture shows Andromeda with a Tal 100RS for scale comparison.

An amazing achromat.

Dave

[F15Rules]

2 hours ago, Dave1 said:

. The Vixen should be better than the Towa 80mm. If I get the Vixen 80mm F15, I will sell my Towa F15 80mm. 

With great respect I don't think you'd see much difference. They are both 80mm F15 Japanese achromats and both optically very good.

The Vixen will be mechanically better, no doubt about it, with a better finder and focuser, but detail wise I think they are very similar (I've owned a Vixen Custom 80m F11, not the F15).

A 102mm Vixen SP102 F10 will be a different kettle of fish.. superb optics and that 22mm does make a very noticeable difference☺..

Dave

[Dave1]

Thanks F15, yes you've shown me those wonderful telescopes before. I've been out with my Towa 80mm F15 tonight. Its a lovely scope to use. Seen some marvellous views tonight. Tonight is the first night I have use the Towa 80mm F15 on my Berlebach tripod and Altair Sabre 2 mount. A match made in heaven I have to say, very intuitive and very very easy to use. The Standard focuser is just fine with a 1.25" Parks prism diagonal and 1.25" eyepieces. Think I may now only flock the tube and maybe add a baffle towards the rear.

Its put up some wonderful views of Sirius, Orion Nebular, Ainitak, Alnilam, Mintaka, Aldebaran, Pleiades. 

Edited February 4, 2018 by Dave1

[F15Rules]

That's great Dave,

Out of interest, have you knocked out the baffle in the original really long draw tube at the focuser end? 

It's something that a lot of owners have done, I think the original baffle inside the drawtube can vignette the views, and at F15, you want the largest image circle possible to pass light through to the eyepiece.

But these really are cracking scopes when you consider the age, early coatings and modest aperture and price!

Just one other thought. Have you considered buying a 6" F8 achromat? The Celestron C6R or the Skywatcher Evostar 150 F8 are very similar optically. But they can give stunning views of clusters and nebulae compared to the 80mm, but you can also mask the aperture down to 100mm to give you an F12 achromat, which would have very good CA correction. So making two or more (with different aperture masks) scopes in one.

The only drawback is that this scope is quite heavy. However, I used one quite happily for a couple of years on a CG5 class mount with ADM saddle upgrade to hold the tube more firmly. It worked really well for visual and went up to around x250 on good nights with some great views

Good luck,

Dave

[Dave1]

Hi Dave

Yes the focuser tube has indeed had the baffle knocked out. From what I understand magnesium coatings have worse light transmission than modern coatings but less light scatter. So horses for courses, no complaints from me though.

I already own a 120 F8 Helios refractor. Whilst it is good, I don't actually use it much, I guess its just one of those things. I think I will probably buy an Bresser AR102/1350 F13.2.

I'm going to get a longer eyepiece for wider views, for use with the 60mm and 80mm. 

Dave

Edited February 11, 2018 by Dave1

[mikeDnight]

If you're patient you could keep your eyes open for a SW ED100 Pro. They come up for sale at silly low prices from time to time, and they are truly superb scopes!

[F15Rules]

15 hours ago, Dave1 said:

I already own a 120 F8 Helios refractor. Whilst it is good, I don't actually use it much, I guess its just one of those things

I know what you mean. I have in store for my son in law an Evostar 120mm F8 and I just don't like it. I found the 150mm F8s much better, and at 150mm they really give the wow factor on clusters such as the Pleiades and double cluster in Perseus.

For low power wide views at reasonable cost, I'd recommend the TS Optics 40mm Parocor. I have one and it's excellent (same as TMB Paragon and SAW Aero). The 40mm will give you x30 at 1200mm focal length, and a 30mm is also available giving x40. Both will be pin sharp to the edge at F15?.

Dave

[Dave1]

That's great the 150mm F8 are good, but surely they are more suspectable to chromatic abbration?

The only modern Ed telescope I have any interest in and would buy in a heart beat if I had the money is the Frt 120 Ed F12. 5. That to me is the perfect telescope design, has everything I want. http://www.frtelescopes.com/frt120ded.html

 

Thanks for the eyepiece recommendations. I ordered an eyepiece last night which was the GSO super Plossl eyepiece in 32mm. I nearly ordered the Vixen NPL 30mm. Both eyepiece get good reviews especially in slow telescopes. I will look at the eyepiece you mentioned. 

Edited February 5, 2018 by Dave1

[Stu]

12 minutes ago, Dave1 said:

That's great the 150mm F8 are good, but surely they are more suspectable to chromatic abbration?

The only modern Ed telescope I have any interest in and would buy in a heart beat if I had the money is the Frt 120 Ed F12. 5. That to me is the perfect telescope design, has everything I want. http://www.frtelescopes.com/frt120ded.html

 

Thanks for the eyepiece recommendations. I ordered an eyepiece last night which was the GSO super Plossl eyepiece in 32mm. I nearly ordered the Vixen NPL 30mm. Both eyepiece get good reviews especially in slow telescopes. I will look at the eyepiece you mentioned. 

That FRT looks a lovely scope, long focal length ED, I bet that performs well!

[F15Rules]

1 hour ago, Stu said:

That FRT looks a lovely scope, long focal length ED, I bet that performs well!

I couldn't agree more. If the lens is well figured and polished it should deliver stunning views. And it would be as rare as Skylights too!

Dave

[F15Rules]

1 hour ago, Dave1 said:

That's great the 150mm F8 are good, but surely they are more suspectable to chromatic abbration

Yes, they do have CA, but I have used several CR6/Eco 150s and a couple of the 120s and I always much preferred the views of the latter..

[Dave1]

If its a clear sky tonight, I shall point my Evostar 120mm towards the Orion nebular to see how it compares to the 80mm.  

[Dave1]

Well guys believe it or not, I haggled with the guy for the Vixen 80mm F15, I got it down to £186. I did some more thinking last night and today. I really like working with 80mm telescopes. I also thought, when is the next time I am going to see a Japanese Vixen 80mm F15 telescope for sale? In like new condition? Not only does it have Vixen optics, it also has 4 baffles in the tubes, and a modern dual speed focuser. This telescope has the potential to be great.

So in short I will compare the two 80mm's and keep the best one! 

Tonight I have flocked the focuser end of my Towa, I will flock the other end tomorrow, and maybe add a baffle as well.

Dave

[MZack]

Hi. Just seen this thread, may be a bit late but I too own a classic refractor, an F13 HN Irving as well. I’ve owned it since a teenager in 1979 and had it refurbished and cleaned up by Mark Turner at Moonraker as well. The original lens seemed ok but since “upgraded” with an even older achromatic from Broadhurst and Clarkson estimated to be from around the 1940s. Great on double stars and the moon. Modern eps do well but I still love my volcano orthos. Seems like there are a good number of keen users of the old ‘uns out there!

[F15Rules]

On 05/02/2018 at 20:01, Dave1 said:

Well guys believe it or not, I haggled with the guy for the Vixen 80mm F15, I got it down to £186. I did some more thinking last night and today. I really like working with 80mm telescopes. I also thought, when is the next time I am going to see a Japanese Vixen 80mm F15 telescope for sale? In like new condition? Not only does it have Vixen optics, it also has 4 baffles in the tubes, and a modern dual speed focuser. This telescope has the potential to be great.

So in short I will compare the two 80mm's and keep the best one! 

Tonight I have flocked the focuser end of my Towa, I will flock the other end tomorrow, and maybe add a baffle as well.

Dave

Dave,

Pictures are required please! ??

Dave

[philj]

Hi Dave

Kudos for wanting to own a British refractor. I have restored, owned and covetted many. My advice with the Irving is to take a look at in the flesh. I understand Wildey optics were used for some Irvings, just like Fullerscopes and several other makers but the only way you can be sure is to take out the objective and see if it is signed. Ive had 2 Wildey refractors and both were signed on the edge of the objective in pencil. Dont discount Broadhurst Ckarkson refractors, I have had a few of these of different vintage, some better than others but my old 1910ish 3" Starboy had excellent optics and when fitted with modern eyepieces performed superbly. Some Wray scopes are good, i had a 3.25" from 1890 once and its objective was a thing of beauty.

As for modern scopes, Lyra, Skylight, Antares

 

Well done on the Vixen Btw, A flocked, baffled and correctly adjusted Towa will give the Vixen a run for its money. I still have my updated 339 and it never fails to impresss

Edited February 10, 2018 by philj

[Dave1]

Hello @MZack, only just saw your post! that is a thing of beauty. Congrats. Yes I think I saw Marks comments/thread over at Cloudy Nights on the restoration of your telescope. A cherished telescope indeed. 

@philj thanks for your comments. Yes that is what I suspect regarding the Vixen 80mm Vs 80mm Towa. Which is why I will flock and add the extra baffle to the Towa lenses end, so it is a fair shoot out between the too. My only concern at the moment with the Vixen, is it comes with a modern Crayford focuser, which might not bring a normal eyepiece into focus with out a OTA tube extension. The seller assure me he's been using it just fine with a zoom eyepiece, and the Crayford 5cm out.

The Vixen is on its way to me. Can't wait to use it.

Dave

[MZack]

Hi @Dave1

yes, Mark did put it on Cloudy Nights as well. It’s a 3 inch and a real joy to use. I took it up to my local society for a Lunar observing evening and it was one of the stars of the show. One member felt it out performed a 120mm modern F8 refractor standing alongside which was nice to hear. I’d add to the posts about how important a sturdy mount and tripod are to the whole set up. Lots of discussion about the quality of older lenses but they need good support to bring out the best in them. I mentioned I found old orthos perform well, has anyone had any particular experiences with modern brands?

 

malcolm  

 

[mikeDnight]

TV Plossls are superb and easily obtainable. Another real beauty that would work well in your scope would be the 35mm Baader Eudiascopic, Celestron Ultima, Orion Ultrascopic or Antares Elite. All 1.25" and all hard to come by at the moment, but they do come up second hand from time to time. Another really nice eyepiece would be the Edmunds Optical 28mm RKE (Rank Kellner), which is still available from Edmunds in York.

Edited February 10, 2018 by mikeDnight

[MZack]

Thanks Mike. That’s very helpful. I’ve a TV panoptic 19mm but other than the wider FOV my 18mm volcano top ortho seemed to present a tidier view. 

[Dave1]

Hi MZack,

I can vouch for Edmund Optics RKE, I have the 15mm, on slow telescopes it is very good. There has been a number of tests comparing TV Plossl to GSO Plossl, and to Brandon eyepieces. One of those tests was conducted by Chris Lord of Brayebrook observatory. It really was a very good test, in both medium speed and faster telescopes the consensus was the GSO Plossl performed better than the TV Plossl. http://brayebrookobservatory.org/BrayObsWebSite/HOMEPAGE/PageMill_Resources/Comparison test of TVPlossl vs Brandon.pdf

Although I don't think of the GSO or TV Plossl as being modern eyepieces, they are just symmetrical 4 element 2 group design, which is really quite old now.

I now own the 32mm GSO Plossl, I have yet to use it, will report back what I think when I do!

Edited February 11, 2018 by Dave1

[mikeDnight]

Another really nice eyepiece that's as cheap as chips is the Super Abbe Orthoscopic from 365 Astronomy. I use a pair of 16.8mm SAO's in my binoviewer for lunar and planetary observing. They are not so good in short F ratio scopes but in a longer focal length instrument they are excellent! I use a Barlow in my binoviewer on my 100mm F7.4 and the 16.8mm's are sharp to the edge and as tack sharp on axis as can be.

Edited February 11, 2018 by mikeDnight

[HAsun]

On ‎04‎/‎02‎/‎2018 at 12:27, Cosmic Geoff said:

Yes. Here's a picture of it on the AZ-4.

 

A very nice scope you have there. I have a number of antique brass telescopes myself. If you ever want to sell this scope I would be very interested I it. Not that you ever will though !