Once bitten twice shy

[derekf]

I've just bought the Skywatcher EQ6 Pro mount and i'm going to be sending it straight back. The Alt bolts are horrendously poor.

I should of done my home work before the purchase as it seems its a common fault with these bolts bending. The bottom bolt on mine bends when adjusting with a loaded mount but is ok with no weight.

Doing a simple internet search reveals this problem has gone on for years. I'm gob smacked why these mounts are still for sale with these bolts.

Anyway as the saying goes "once bitten twice shy" i'm sending mine back and thinking of swapping it for the R vision as it looks they have addressed the problem with the bolts or could I be wrong? 

 

Edited January 13, 2018 by derekf

[Demonperformer]

You may find it cheaper to get a set of the replacement bolts - about £25 IIRC - which solve the problem completely. I know spending more cash to resolve a design fault is not ideal, but it may cost more than that to return it and order something else.

[derekf]

Just now, Demonperformer said:

You may find it cheaper to get a set of the replacement bolts - about £25 IIRC - which solve the problem completely. I know spending more cash to resolve a design fault is not ideal, but it may cost more than that to return it and order something else.

Thanks 

I'm hoping the supplier with do the right thing and cover the postage. The R version is only an extra £64 as the mount i purchased was supplied with upgraded Belts.

 

[martinl]

The alt bolts on my CG5 were so poor that one got permanently bent. I replaced them with some stainless steel threaded rod and a couple of thumb nuts off eBay. Works perfectly, and was a lot less than £25. 

That said, sending poorly designed products back might be the only way to make manufacturers realise that there is a problem. 

[Cosmic Geoff]

40 minutes ago, martinl said:

That said, sending poorly designed products back might be the only way to make manufacturers realise that there is a problem. 

Quite right. The altitude range on these mounts is restricted. They should really have a 90 deg gear sector and worm gear to adjust the altitude. It wouldn't kill the manufacturers to do the job properly.

[newbie alert]

46 minutes ago, martinl said:

The alt bolts on my CG5 were so poor that one got permanently bent. I replaced them with some stainless steel threaded rod and a couple of thumb nuts off eBay. Works perfectly, and was a lot less than £25. 

That said, sending poorly designed products back might be the only way to make manufacturers realise that there is a problem. 

I agree with you entirely as my cgem is exactly the same..if I bought it new it would be going back..but as i haven't any warranty as not the original owner I've had to mod it a bit..going to do abit more extreme modding at a later date..

Just remember that you will be sending it back to the distributor  and not the manufacturer..and it is distributed on a bigger scale from another bigger group..so manufacturer won't know anything about it..

But in total agreement with you as it should be fit for purpose..being able to polar align is pretty basic..

[LightBucket]

1 hour ago, derekf said:

Thanks 

I'm hoping the supplier with do the right thing and cover the postage. The R version is only an extra £64 as the mount i purchased was supplied with upgraded Belts.

 

Can’t believe they had done a belt mod on the mount, and left the same crappy adjustment bolts in, that’s unbelieveable.. ?

[MarsG76]

That's rubbish..... what happened to attention to detail and high quality products.... this is why I hold on to older equipment until it literally dies... seems like it was built better back then, built to last and now the quality level dropped to rock bottom.. sounds like the manufacturer is saying "as long as it last the warranty period, and not much longer, it's all good, come get another one" ... repeat business keep you in business. Return it, demand the postage to be covered and send a message I say... THE STUFF AIN'T CHEAP!!!!!!!!!!

 

35 minutes ago, LightBucket said:

Can’t believe they had done a belt mod on the mount, and left the same crappy adjustment bolts in, that’s unbelieveable.. ?

Exactly

 

[derekf]

Just got off the phone to the company that supplied me the mount,  i was told they are aware of  a very few of these bolts bending out of the hundreds they sell  and 9 times out of 10 these bolts only bend due to incorrect set up(I only had 1 bolt in trying to adjust from 54 to 52 degrees).

Anyway they are taking it back to look at what is causing the problem. i have a horrible feeling that i'm going to have a fight on my hands getting the upgraded version or my money back. 

[Grotemobile]

1 hour ago, martinl said:

The alt bolts on my CG5 were so poor that one got permanently bent. I replaced them with some stainless steel threaded rod and a couple of thumb nuts off eBay. Works perfectly, and was a lot less than £25. 

That said, sending poorly designed products back might be the only way to make manufacturers realise that there is a problem. 

Same here. Replaced with M 10 bolts. I think the idea is to set the ALT adjustment with no load. That is what i did in the end. Just locked it all up  

@ 50 deg. Tracks ok . You have got to watch you don't strip the threads in the mount as well.  

[derekf]

56 minutes ago, MarsG76 said:

That's rubbish..... what happened to attention to detail and high quality products.... this is why I hold on to older equipment until it literally dies... seems like it was built better back then, built to last and now the quality level dropped to rock bottom.. sounds like the manufacturer is saying "as long as it last the warranty period, and not much longer, it's all good, come get another one" ... repeat business keep you in business. Return it, demand the postage to be covered and send a message I say... THE STUFF AIN'T CHEAP!!!!!!!!!!

 

Exactly

 

I've also Emailed Skywatcher directly complaining about the bolts

[LightBucket]

If it an EQ6 pro with belt upgrade, and you are buying from a dealer, then I know which one it is, and for a dealer to not realise that those bolts are rubbish, is also rubbish, all the dealers know about those crappy bolts, and they were just trying to save money, it’s a very very common fault that most people have and is nothing to do with the way it is set up....

[MarsG76]

13 minutes ago, derekf said:

I've also Emailed Skywatcher directly complaining about the bolts

I'm curious whether they respond...

What are those bolts made of? Plastic?

 

[tooth_dr]

2 hours ago, derekf said:

I'm hoping the supplier with do the right thing and cover the postage. The R version is only an extra £64 as the mount i purchased was supplied with upgraded Belts.

 

Sounds like some buyer’s remorse!  

[derekf]

4 minutes ago, tooth_dr said:

Sounds like some buyer’s remorse!  

No I'm a buyer that expects the things i buy to work as they should.

[MarsG76]

20 minutes ago, derekf said:

No I'm a buyer that expects the things i buy to work as they should.

As you should get what you paid for... I'm sure you're protected by consumer law... obviously the bolts are not functioning as intended.

[tooth_dr]

38 minutes ago, derekf said:

No I'm a buyer that expects the things i buy to work as they should.

 

4 minutes ago, MarsG76 said:

As you should get what you paid for... I'm sure you're protected by consumer law... obviously the bolts are not functioning as intended.

I’m just saying I wouldn’t dream of tightening up that bolt without taking some of the weight of the CW bar to allow the bolt to turn without any undue pressure.  Common sense would say don’t try to move that sort of weight with a bolt in a cast aluminium housing. We all have different view points on what we expect of things, based on how much we paid etc etc.  I can understand your disappointment though don’t get me wrong, why can’t the supplier just send you a new bolt and that’s it sorted?

Edited January 13, 2018 by tooth_dr

[derekf]

5 minutes ago, tooth_dr said:

 

I’m just saying I wouldn’t dream of tightening up that bolt without taking some of the weight of the CW bar to allow the bolt to turn without any undue pressure.  Common sense would say don’t try to move that sort of weight with a bolt in a cast aluminium housing. We all have different view points on what we expect of things, based on how much we paid etc etc.  I can understand your disappointment though don’t get me wrong, why can’t the supplier just send you a new bolt and that’s it sorted?

Please forgive me if i'm missing something very obvious, but isn't the mount supposed to take the weight?  and to do an exact polar alignment its best to have all the gear on and balanced beforehand

[brantuk]

The EQ6 bolts anomaly has been a topic of discussion for at least the ten years I've been doing astronomy. The problem is they actually are perfectly adequate when used as per manufacturers advice. The advice is to use them to set up the mount before loading the scope and other equipment on. Any further adjustment after loading is usually only tiny tweaks to perfect PA.

The problem of bent bolts and stripped mount threads only occurs with overuse (frequent large adjustments) when heavily laden, and particularly at higher latitudes of 52 degrees and over (literally at the extreme end of the bolt threads). It's a common solution to re-lug the mount and use harder steel bolts - but even then the mount threads are "more likely" to be stripped e.g. if using a heavy dual imaging rig.

When I had my NEQ6 Pro I used it on the move a lot - so I was always resetting it. It came with the hardened steel bolts but I still only did minimal adjustments when loaded. Most of the mount setup and PA was done unloaded. Of course if your scope is in a permanent setup e.g. in an observatory - the process is only ever done once so the chances of a problem are vastly reduced. Hth

[derekf]

5 minutes ago, brantuk said:

The EQ6 bolts anomaly has been a topic of discussion for at least the ten years I've been doing astronomy. The problem is they actually are perfectly adequate when used as per manufacturers advice. The advice is to use them to set up the mount before loading the scope and other equipment on. Any further adjustment after loading is usually only tiny tweaks to perfect PA.

The problem of bent bolts and stripped mount threads only occurs with overuse (frequent large adjustments) when heavily laden, and particularly at higher latitudes of 52 degrees and over (literally at the extreme end of the bolt threads). It's a common solution to re-lug the mount and use harder steel bolts - but even then the mount threads are "more likely" to be stripped e.g. if using a heavy dual imaging rig.

When I had my NEQ6 Pro I used it on the move a lot - so I was always resetting it. It came with the hardened steel bolts but I still only did minimal adjustments when loaded. Most of the mount setup and PA was done unloaded. Of course if your scope is in a permanent setup e.g. in an observatory - the process is only ever done once so the chances of a problem are vastly reduced. Hth

I understand what your saying but the bolt was bending as soon as i started to turn it when it was under load, also i had to be very very careful how much pressure i used to lock the mount in place or it would flex and bend more

[MarsG76]

Would putting something like teflon tape between the mount and the head stop your bolts from bending. The removed friction would allow your mount to glide easier over the tripod, take the force off the bolts and perhaps stop the bending of the bolts.

I added some and in my case, it allows me to precisely fine PA adjust my mount in azimuth.

[derekf]

5 minutes ago, MarsG76 said:

Would putting something like teflon tape between the mount and the head stop your bolts from bending. The removed friction would allow your mount to glide easier over the tripod, take the force off the bolts and perhaps stop the bending of the bolts.

I added some and in my case, it allows me to precisely fine PA adjust my mount in azimuth.

Thanks but i'm reluctant to make any mods to something i've just purchased

Edited January 13, 2018 by derekf

[Doc]

When I bought my HEQ6 many years ago I knew about the problem and just bought the upgraded bolt kit. I know the mount should come with these bolts as standard but in the 10+ years they have been around they haven't.

It's a great mount apart from that so I would just bite the bullet and buy the upgraded bolts, or make some yourself.

[LightBucket]

12 minutes ago, MarsG76 said:

Would putting something like teflon tape between the mount and the head stop your bolts from bending. The removed friction would allow your mount to glide easier over the tripod, take the force off the bolts and perhaps stop the bending of the bolts.

I added some and in my case, it allows me to precisely fine PA adjust my mount in azimuth.

It isnt those bolts that bend, it’s the ALT adjustment ones....  those AZ  ones work fine

[LightBucket]

28 minutes ago, derekf said:

Please forgive me if i'm missing something very obvious, but isn't the mount supposed to take the weight?  and to do an exact polar alignment its best to have all the gear on and balanced beforehand

You are not missing anything obvious, and I totally agree, it should be perfect especially when it is really secondhand as it has been belt mod upgraded, so the least they should have done was replaced those crappy cheese bolts, it should work as intended with CW fitted, if it doesnt then return for refund and but elsewhere...., that is what I would do....