ED80 v 130P-ds

[nephilim]

25 minutes ago, scitmon said:

I went down the ED80 route and I am very happy with my decision.

I'll echo what has previously been said...

• 130 PDS wins when it comes price (although I would argue that AP is an expensive hobby if you really get into it, so get used to putting money into it)
• ED80 just works, requires next to no maintenance.

I don't think you can go wrong with either.  This thread might be worth a look too:

 

Sorry Scitmon,  I got your name wrong, Matt is the name of the guy whos post you linked.

[Spikey]

2 hours ago, nephilim said:

Ah, this is why I'm asking so many questions. I'd read (I think it was on the Cloudy Nights forum although I've trawled through so many, I may be wrong) that the ED80 didn't have the light gathering capabilities  for galaxies.

Thanks for that as not been able to image galaxies was the one thing that would've swung my choice towards the 130 but now I'm much more in favour of the ED80. Can I ask which camera took these images? Great captures btw.

Regards

Steve 

This was 90 minutes with an old Atik16HR Mono at one of the SGL star parties a few years ago. In fact I've still got this 16HR as my main imaging camera due to selling off my other ones. 

[Paul67]

18 hours ago, Adam J said:

You really dont need the moonlight, I dont use it and I have 1.2kg hanging from the stock focuser. Also the 130PDS has the exact same design of focuser as the SW ED80 so what makes if ok on the ED80 but not the 130PDS?

I skimmed a lot of the 130 imaging thread and gathered some people were having issues with the stock focuser when attached to this scope, if I were to go with the 130 I would definitely reread the thread again. Maybe its different stresses on the focuser given different angles in comparison to the 80 ED? Pleased its working for you and im sure it does work for many in most situations but still something to weigh up.

[Whistlin Bob]

I spent most of the summer having the same argument with myself. In the end I plumped for the 130pds because I'm used to a dob and collimation no longer scares me. When I received it the collimation was spot on and has remained so for the 4 months and 2 dozen or so sessions I've used it so it's been pretty plug and play. If you go down the 130 route the cost advantage is eroded a bit because you do need a coma corrector, and I find collimation much easier with a laser so you probably want a few quid for that. I've had no problems whatsoever with the focuser- with a bhatinov mask it's easy to get it right and the lock works well for me. Others have different opinions.

From the images on this site it's clear that both are more than capable of easily producing superb images (and I've been thrilled with mine)- so in some ways I think it comes down to an aesthetic choice about diffraction spikes. I rather like them, but perhaps you don't.

Whichever way you jump you can count on a little frustration as you learn the ropes then a massive buzz the first time you get something like this. Hope you have some fun!

 

[Skipper Billy]

Almost all of the images on this page were taken with an ED80 - you might spot that one or two are taken with a fast imaging newt - which is currently back in Germany for warranty repairs (the secondary fell off the spider assembly - stripped thread on the central bolt) so the ED80 was pressed back into service. Now what does that suggest??? ;-)

https://sites.google.com/view/astro-imaging/deep-space-objects

[nephilim]

47 minutes ago, Whistlin Bob said:

I spent most of the summer having the same argument with myself. In the end I plumped for the 130pds because I'm used to a dob and collimation no longer scares me. When I received it the collimation was spot on and has remained so for the 4 months and 2 dozen or so sessions I've used it so it's been pretty plug and play. If you go down the 130 route the cost advantage is eroded a bit because you do need a coma corrector, and I find collimation much easier with a laser so you probably want a few quid for that. I've had no problems whatsoever with the focuser- with a bhatinov mask it's easy to get it right and the lock works well for me. Others have different opinions.

From the images on this site it's clear that both are more than capable of easily producing superb images (and I've been thrilled with mine)- so in some ways I think it comes down to an aesthetic choice about diffraction spikes. I rather like them, but perhaps you don't.

Whichever way you jump you can count on a little frustration as you learn the ropes then a massive buzz the first time you get something like this. Hope you have some fun!

 

Thanks Bob, that's a stunning image. I think I've made my mind up in favour of the 80ED but your image ( and many others I've  seen using the 130 show its a very capable scope indeed) 

As for diffraction spikes, as I mentioned earlier I do prefer without BUT  some targets definitely do benifit from them 

[nephilim]

So, after more research & getting some good info from SGL I've decided on the (Drum roll please.................. ) Skywatcher 80ED DS-Pro. My main concern with the 80ED was that i'd read on another forum that it was no good for galaxies or planets. Happily I've found this is not the case & it is more than capable as a good all rounder. It was a hard choice as both scopes are very capable & help produce great images.

As I said, the 80ED will be used on a HEQ5 Pro Synscan, my only other decision is which camera & thats equally difficult. I think I've settled on the QHY8L, my last (short & unsuccessful), foray into imaging was with a dslr & although dslr's are capable of some amazing images I really want a dedicated camera. As for mono, Im not ready for the extra faff & things to think about with a mono/filter wheel/filter etc, Id like a few half decent images under my belt & then will try my hand at guiding. If this all proves successful then maybe I'll go down the mono road. I've a long long way to go yet though.

Thanks for all your help & advice

Steve

[Spikey]

31 minutes ago, nephilim said:

So, after more research & getting some good info from SGL I've decided on the (Drum roll please.................. ) Skywatcher 80ED DS-Pro. My main concern with the 80ED was that i'd read on another forum that it was no good for galaxies or planets. Happily I've found this is not the case & it is more than capable as a good all rounder. It was a hard choice as both scopes are very capable & help produce great images.

As I said, the 80ED will be used on a HEQ5 Pro Synscan, my only other decision is which camera & thats equally difficult. I think I've settled on the QHY8L, my last (short & unsuccessful), foray into imaging was with a dslr & although dslr's are capable of some amazing images I really want a dedicated camera. As for mono, Im not ready for the extra faff & things to think about with a mono/filter wheel/filter etc, Id like a few half decent images under my belt & then will try my hand at guiding. If this all proves successful then maybe I'll go down the mono road. I've a long long way to go yet though.

Thanks for all your help & advice

Steve

Good choice; Here's an average M31 with the ED80 and an original QHY8

 

[nephilim]

51 minutes ago, Spikey said:

Good choice; Here's an average M31 with the ED80 and an original QHY8

 

Wow, that's a cracking image mate. If my mind wasn't fully made up about my choices, it is now. Hopefully a year or so down the line I'll be able to post something similar ( in an ideal world that is )

[Marky1973]

I use an ED80 and it is fairly easy to get right....my two recommendations to go with it would be a Bahtinov mask and a skywatcher motor focuser....the former is cheap and the latter was under 50 when I got one....really helps with focus and helps lock the draw tube without resorting to the lock screw on the focuser which I always find shifts the focus slightly. Really easy to fit as well.....

[jjosefsen]

23 minutes ago, Marky1973 said:

I use an ED80 and it is fairly easy to get right....my two recommendations to go with it would be a Bahtinov mask and a skywatcher motor focuser....the former is cheap and the latter was under 50 when I got one....really helps with focus and helps lock the draw tube without resorting to the lock screw on the focuser which I always find shifts the focus slightly. Really easy to fit as well.....

Good info here, I have been thinking about getting the motor focuser, I also find that the locking screw shifts the focus.

[Whistlin Bob]

On ‎11‎/‎01‎/‎2018 at 21:52, Spikey said:

Good choice; Here's an average M31 with the ED80 and an original QHY8

 

Indeed- that's a lovely M31...

[Charic]

Some folk despise being called a Guru, but here goes, Steve is 'my' Guru and I don't even image, but I know the majority of his excellent images were taken with an 80mm scope, the same as being described above. 

For a little cash outlay, he has produced a Wonderfull book available here. https://www.firstlightoptics.com/books/making-every-photon-count-steve-richards.html not only that,  updates are available on-line, and for when you have captured some of your images, his new book helps there too!

A side-by-side comparison is really the only way you can decide for yourself as to which scope is better, but the information in the book, and from users here all make sense to me, and if/when I ever decide to go down that route, it would be an ED80.

[nephilim]

19 hours ago, Charic said:

Some folk despise being called a Guru, but here goes, Steve is 'my' Guru and I don't even image, but I know the majority of his excellent images were taken with an 80mm scope, the same as being described above. 

For a little cash outlay, he has produced a Wonderfull book available here. https://www.firstlightoptics.com/books/making-every-photon-count-steve-richards.html not only that,  updates are available on-line, and for when you have captured some of your images, his new book helps there too!

A side-by-side comparison is really the only way you can decide for yourself as to which scope is better, but the information in the book, and from users here all make sense to me, and if/when I ever decide to go down that route, it would be an ED80.

Hi Charic,

Thanks for the info (I've definately decided on the ED80, it just seems to offer better optics & is more suited to my needs)

I've had Steves 1st book for a few years & agree it's excellent (I've just found out about his post processing book so that's next).

I tried AP several years ago but made the fatal mistake of wanting a scope that did AP 'and' visual (I know now there isn't one) so bought a standard EQ5 & 200p newt as I'd seen some people had managed it with that setup . Needless to say the frustration was to much & I ended up just giving up.

3yrs later & I've decided to try again but this time listening to advice & spending as much time as needed researching every potential purchase so I dont make the same mistakes as last time. I won't be buying anything until May/June as that's when my overtime starts (This AP hobby is expensive ) so that gives me plenty of time to bombard the forum with questions 

Regards

Steve

[Charic]

39 minutes ago, nephilim said:

I won't be buying anything until May/June as that's when my overtime starts (This AP hobby is expensive ) so that gives me plenty of time to bombard the forum with questions 

The longer you take, the better the chances of you getting it right, and no matter what the information, its your decision alone that counts
One thing for sure, space and everything up there will still be there when the time comes to image.

[nephilim]

21 minutes ago, Charic said:

The longer you take, the better the chances of you getting it right, and no matter what the information, its your decision alone that counts
One thing for sure, space and everything up there will still be there when the time comes to image.

Thankyou, those are my thoughts exactly 

[nephilim]

On 11/01/2018 at 21:19, nephilim said:

So, after more research & getting some good info from SGL I've decided on the (Drum roll please.................. ) Skywatcher 80ED DS-Pro. My main concern with the 80ED was that i'd read on another forum that it was no good for galaxies or planets. Happily I've found this is not the case & it is more than capable as a good all rounder. It was a hard choice as both scopes are very capable & help produce great images.

As I said, the 80ED will be used on a HEQ5 Pro Synscan, my only other decision is which camera & thats equally difficult. I think I've settled on the QHY8L, my last (short & unsuccessful), foray into imaging was with a dslr & although dslr's are capable of some amazing images I really want a dedicated camera. As for mono, Im not ready for the extra faff & things to think about with a mono/filter wheel/filter etc, Id like a few half decent images under my belt & then will try my hand at guiding. If this all proves successful then maybe I'll go down the mono road. I've a long long way to go yet though.

Thanks for all your help & advice

Steve

As I thought would happen, although im happy with my mount & scope choice, the camera is the big hurdle. I'm still considering the QHY8L 'but' a fellow SGL member mentioned the ZWOasi 294, it's a new camera & images I've found taken with it are impressive plus it's well within budget. 

 The only issue I'm having is finding first hand user reviews (possibly as it's so new) I've posted a question in the forum to see if anyone has used it & their opinions of it so fingers crossed I'll get some info as on paper it's got everything I'm looking for.

[Adam J]

My M33 with a 130PDS and DSLR:

My soul nebula in bi-color with a 130PDS / DSLR:

Its a fast scope, faster than the ED80.

Adam

[nephilim]

1 hour ago, Adam J said:

My M33 with a 130PDS and DSLR:

My soul nebula in bi-color with a 130PDS / DSLR:

Its a fast scope, faster than the ED80.

Adam

Great images. Love the Soul Nebula. Which camera did you use to take these?

[rl]

"Just working" is a massive asset when starting out with AP (or even after you've done it for years). . There is plenty of other stuff to go wrong which will exercise your vocabulary of expletives at 2am.

Refractors tend to have more generous back focus for filter wheels etc which may be a consideration for the future. 

RL

[Adam J]

18 hours ago, nephilim said:

Great images. Love the Soul Nebula. Which camera did you use to take these?

Both are with a canon 550D and a little bit of DIY cooling.

[Adam J]

20 hours ago, nephilim said:

As I thought would happen, although im happy with my mount & scope choice, the camera is the big hurdle. I'm still considering the QHY8L 'but' a fellow SGL member mentioned the ZWOasi 294, it's a new camera & images I've found taken with it are impressive plus it's well within budget. 

 The only issue I'm having is finding first hand user reviews (possibly as it's so new) I've posted a question in the forum to see if anyone has used it & their opinions of it so fingers crossed I'll get some info as on paper it's got everything I'm looking for.

That was me. I will say again that I think the QHY168c is the OSC I would chose, but in budget then the ASI294mc Pro and the QHY8L make lots of sense. I myself am intending to go for a QHY163m, as mono is more sensitive.

Out of the two choices you highlight the QHY8L as the proven performer. However, its large pixels are not the best match for the focal length of your selected scope. It will do ok in terms of resolution in RGB but if you wanted to mix in some Ha (50% resolution on an OSC) you may find it to lack detail due to the very large pixels. Its the safe bet for an OSC camera, you will need to be able to do longer exposures though to make it work so a guide camera is a must.

The ASI294 is very very new and most people who have taken it up are doing EAA with it as opposed to classical astrophotography. Its very low read noise and very sensitive, so on paper it should be a winner. You will only need short exposures compared to the QHY8L. So 60 second exposures should work so long as you have enough of them. Exposure with the 8L will need to be longer....

So one question is, do you intend to make use of a guide camera from the start? If the answer is that you are not going to guide then I would go with the ASI294mc pro its also a muchmore modern design. If you are going to guide then the QHY8L is a safe pair of hands.

[Paul67]

Been looking at this closer and think they are both great scopes. If I had more freedom to image comfortably my choice would probably by the ED80 on a EQ mount. Given I am trying to go light and quick with the setting up due to circumstances, ie using an alt az tracking mount, the faster F5 130 is seeming the better option right now for shorter subs.

Only adding to the thread encase anyone else might find it useful.

 

[nephilim]

4 hours ago, Adam J said:

Both are with a canon 550D and a little bit of DIY cooling.

Ah, didnt read the gear info in your post< those are fantastic for DSLR.

[nephilim]

1 hour ago, Paul67 said:

Been looking at this closer and think they are both great scopes. If I had more freedom to image comfortably my choice would probably by the ED80 on a EQ mount. Given I am trying to go light and quick with the setting up due to circumstances, ie using an alt az tracking mount, the faster F5 130 is seeming the better option right now for shorter subs.

Only adding to the thread encase anyone else might find it useful.

 

Looking at the specs of both scopes the 80ED weighs 2.5kg as opposed to the 130's 4kg. The faster speed of the 130 is the thing that had me undecided between the 2 but i'm set on the 80ED now.

Steve