Whole Set Up for astrophotography (high knowledge of photography)

[victorgonal]

Hi everyone!

I'm new to Astrophotography and would like-need some help with what equipment to get.

My idea is to be able to take "good" pictures of M42, M31, M27 and any close clusters or nebulaes (sorry, is that written right in english? unfortunately it's not my native language).

First of, This is what I've already on cameras and lenses:

• Canon 40D
• Canon 450D
• Canon EF 16-35mm f/2.8L II
• Canon 50mm f/1.0L
• Canon 300mm f/2.8L IS
• Several other lenses

I do have a Manfrotto 055 tripod which I used to take pics of the moon, eclipses, etc.

My budget for telescope + mount + "tripod" would be around 800EUR. I know it's not much but I don't want to overspend initially.

EDIT: And of course any adapter that would be a MUST or nice-to-have would be appreciated.

Thanks a lot!

[Owmuchonomy]

Hi and welcome.  You will receive good advice from this forum.  First of all can you tell us what it is you wish to image?  For example, the kit you already own can be put to use in wide field astrophotography with the addition of a decent mount, even a portable one.  The choice of targets you wish to image will dictate the types of equipment you need to invest in and also the budget you need to spend.  We look forward to hearing from you.  In the meantime you may also wish to consider purchasing the book: 'Making Every Photon Count' by Steve Richards.  It is available from FLO, the sponsors of this site, and other retailers.  That would be a good first investment.

[victorgonal]

3 minutes ago, Owmuchonomy said:

Hi and welcome.  You will receive good advice from this forum.  First of all can you tell us what it is you wish to image?  For example, the kit you already own can be put to use in wide field astrophotography with the addition of a decent mount, even a portable one.  The choice of targets you wish to image will dictate the types of equipment you need to invest in and also the budget you need to spend.  We look forward to hearing from you.  In the meantime you may also wish to consider purchasing the book: 'Making Every Photon Count' by Steve Richards.  It is available from FLO, the sponsors of this site, and other retailers.  That would be a good first investment.

Hi Owmuchonomy and thanks for your input.

I bought the book already, waiting on its arrival! (living in Switzerland has the con on deliveries).

My idea is to be able to take "good" pictures of M42, M31, M27 and any close clusters or nebulaes (sorry, is that written right in english? unfortunately it's not my native language).

Of course Jupiter would be nice, even though I know that with basic equipment I will only be able to take blurred pictures, but that's ok now.

I'll add this info to the main post.

[Zakalwe]

Personally, I think that a knowledge of terrestrial "normal" photography is a hindrance rather than a benefit in astrophotography. So many of the techniques in AP are counter-intuitive.

 

I agree with the Making Every Photon Count. I'd also recommend having a look at LonelySpeck.com...its a great resource for widefield imaging with ordinary photography kit.

[Owmuchonomy]

Hi again.  Your clear information deserves a long answer but I'm not too good at that.  I will make some comments and let other fellow forum members add to it.

1) In your position I would for now ignore planets for a few reasons.  A dedicated high frame rate planetary cam is best (although video mode on a DSLR can do quite well).  Also you need to image at long.... focal lengths ( my planetary images are taken at up to 4+ metres).  Finally, all the large planets at our latitude are poorly placed for some time.

2) I would start with the equipment you have using the 300mm lens and concentrate on M31 as your first target.  You will learn a lot from doing this.  That is exactly what I did with the 300mm f4 lens I owned.  You can see the image on my flickr page.  You can do this with a decent portable EQ mount such as the Star Adventurer but for future proofing you need to aim for an HEQ5 level mount and tripod.

[victorgonal]

44 minutes ago, Zakalwe said:

Personally, I think that a knowledge of terrestrial "normal" photography is a hindrance rather than a benefit in astrophotography. So many of the techniques in AP are counter-intuitive.

 

I agree with the Making Every Photon Count. I'd also recommend having a look at LonelySpeck.com...its a great resource for widefield imaging with ordinary photography kit.

I'll try to keep a fresh mind then

 

38 minutes ago, Owmuchonomy said:

Hi again.  Your clear information deserves a long answer but I'm not too good at that.  I will make some comments and let other fellow forum members add to it.

1) In your position I would for now ignore planets for a few reasons.  A dedicated high frame rate planetary cam is best (although video mode on a DSLR can do quite well).  Also you need to image at long.... focal lengths ( my planetary images are taken at up to 4+ metres).  Finally, all the large planets at our latitude are poorly placed for some time.

2) I would start with the equipment you have using the 300mm lens and concentrate on M31 as your first target.  You will learn a lot from doing this.  That is exactly what I did with the 300mm f4 lens I owned.  You can see the image on my flickr page.  You can do this with a decent portable EQ mount such as the Star Adventurer but for future proofing you need to aim for an HEQ5 level mount and tripod.

I've been looking into:

• Sky Watcher HEQ5 Pro SynScan (without a scope)
• Sky Watcher Explorer-200P 200mm f/5 + EQ5 Pro
• Sky Watcher Explorer-150PDS 150mm f/5 + EQ5 Pro

Would it be better to go with the HEQ5 with SynScan and use my DSLR or go with the EQ5 Pro and one of the 2 scope options (most probably the 200P, I've been reading comparisons and it looks like the logical option)

[swag72]

The HEQ5 is a good starter mount and if I'm honest it's the lowest that I'd want to go....... That and a camera lens will serve you well for starters   

[Owmuchonomy]

I would go Option 1 most definitely.  You can add a scope later.

[Pompey Monkey]

HEQ5 Pro with your 300mm lens would be a great start.

There is a mantra in deep sky astrophotography that goes: "Mount, mount, mount...". I'm sure you'll hear this quite a lot! ?

[newbie alert]

For the budget of €800 I wouldn't bother with a scope or a mount...id buy a skywatcher star adventurer  and use the lenses that you already have.. can learn stacking /processing , polar alignment and even guiding... then once you have learned the craft it be so much easier..theres lots of huge nebulas that are far too big throu a scope but captured on say a 135mm plus lense they're awesome..a fairly fast lense is what you are looking for if you have those..

[ronin]

There is a big difference between "photography" and "astrophotography".

In simple terms for astrophotography you track a moving target for 60 seconds, ideally the target moves not a single poixel across the sensor. Next the image you get is not enough (way too dim) for a picture/image so you repeat the 60 second exposure collection another 10 times. Again all have to track accurately.

You then add each collected 60 second exposure on top of each other (stack) and hopefully the summation of them all gives a workable image to sit and process.

So it is a long way removed from photography. Those trees don't move and 1/200 second is all the time you need. Worked in Bern - could you track a person sking for 60 seconds without any blurring at all?

Equipment depends on how far into it you want to go. HEQ5 is good, you could get by with an EQ5 but future expansion would mean a more substantial mount. Scope is difficult, really amount to reflector of refractor - good apo refractor can be expensive, a reasonable one is likely 800€ upwards. It is difficult in astrophotography to get started with less the 1200€ and as europens prices are greater the UK one I would say 1500€ is minimum.

Decide what you want and buy the equipment now, the Skytrackers for a DSLR are nice but they are not going to do full DSO imaging so seems little point in buying one to then go buy a goto equitorial mount in 4 months.

Additional items: DSLR you have, T-ring for the DSLR, nose piece to DSLR+T-ring to scope, intervalometer to take a series of exposures. You nay have one.

Be careful of a scope saying "Can attach a DSLR", that does not mean the DSLR sensor will sit at the focal plane of the scope. Many scopes do not meet this requirement. In a scope you need a smallish one - easier on the mount to drive accurately - and a fast one. So not go thinking 200P, think 130PDS and 72mm ED or 80 ED. and the 80ED may be a bit slow. People are getting good images from the WO Star 71 Mk2 that is 1200-1500€ I think.

 

[StuartJPP]

The Canon 40D (and Canon 450D) and Canon 300mm f/2.8 L lens will give you some decent images (decent being relative) if you can track the stars properly. I started out with similar kit to you, a Canon 7D and a Canon 500mm f/4 L IS, a Canon 70-200mm f/4 L IS lens and a 300mm f/4 L IS lens. My first "astro" purchase was a 2nd hand AstroTrac for £250...it was probably the best investment I made because it did two important things for me.

1) It allowed me to accurately track the stars.
2) It allowed me to figure out if this hobby was something I wanted to pursue and invest more money in to it without breaking the already broken bank.

 

My very first "proper" astro image was this one (details on clicking the image):

M31 - Andromeda Galaxy by Stuart, on Flickr

And this is the same "data" but processed better once I knew what I was doing:

M31 - Andromeda Galaxy by Stuart, on Flickr

 

Now I am not suggesting getting an AstroTrac, not that it is bad, but there may be better alternatives out there these days.  Perhaps something like an HEQ5 or similar and use the cameras and optics you have already got. That way if you take things further you already have a decent mount and you can build upon that.

Me, I still use DSLR's and lenses, much to some people's shock...but the lenses have cost me zero in astro terms as I already owned them, they are not ideal for astro use, but they are free.

 

Then if you do pursue this hobby then the above image can one day look like this:

M31 - Andromeda Galaxy by Stuart, on Flickr

[Adam J]

For that money, get yourself a HEQ5 pro mount and use your existing lenses with it 200 - 300mm will give you a good shot of a large object like M31. Also the 450D is better than the 40D for astronomy work. You will want a program called Backyard EOS to help control the camera in my opinion its worth the cash and is the best of a few available options.

[Adam J]

12 hours ago, Pompey Monkey said:

HEQ5 Pro with your 300mm lens would be a great start.

There is a mantra in deep sky astrophotography that goes: "Mount, mount, mount...". I'm sure you'll hear this quite a lot! ?

just like this.

[happy-kat]

my big take home is you do not need a telescope for astrophotography but the better the mount the more you can do. for observing you want light buckets as our eyes need all the help they can but imaging is a different bag long exposures see what you can't.