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Mini PCs and USB Naysayers

AlistairW

By AlistairW
in Imaging - Discussion

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AlistairW

AlistairW

Posted
Posted

Hello,

I was thinking about Mini PCs and the like, and how people use these mounted on their OTA to enable wifi and to remove cable clutter and enable automation. This all sounds good in practice, but I worry that using a mini PC or compute stick in the open elements is just asking for issues. I use a Carnetix USB, which has never let me down, but I actually run a heated element to it, so that dew does not form, and I treat the USB connectors with a special paste\glue that forms dew barrier, but is conductive. Surely mounting a mini PC, unless protected in some 'bulky' case, is going to ask for problems ? I like the idea, but I can see it being more infuriating. (My actual idea was to (in the field) have Teamviewer or Tight VNC running from a laptop in the car, whist the rig run remotely outside - but I think I will stick to having a wired PC connection).

 

Any thoughts ?

 

Thanks

 

Alistair

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RichLD

RichLD

Posted
Posted

I have no problems running my dual rig with an Intel NUC, which I RDP into with an Android tablet. I use a TP-Link wn702n mini usb powered wifi router for connectivity.

I've used this setup many times in the field (mainly in winter at my dark site) without problems.

 

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stash_old

stash_old

Posted
Posted

IMHO It depends on what you want to do - just control the mount and maybe a camera or two then the lower /ram Mini Pc's are ok - see CloudyNights whole thread on the subject. However all things are not equal and Mini Pc's come in many forms including ones with I7 Quad core processes and you can have lots of ram etc . In the latter case you will be able to do anything that you normally do on a PC/Mac but it does come at a price (>£400) . As for Dew etc well thats depends and many have been running ok as the electronics generate their own heat . As I said there is a mass of info (good bad etc) on Cloudynights and I know a number on here(SGL) run ok .

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RichLD

RichLD

Posted
Posted

Forgot to mention - the NUC is an Intel NUC5CPYH, Celeron 1.6GHz, 8Gb RAM, running EQMod, two instances of SGP, PHD2 and Polemaster. The whole usb caboodle is sorted by 2 x Startech Industrial 4 port powered hubs cascaded together - one USB 2.0 lead goes to the NUC which is mounted on the spreader plate of the HEQ5 tripod. Imaging cameras are an any 2 out of 3 combination of QHY9m, QHY163m and QHY8L. Guiding camera is an Orion SSAG.

The NUC is used purely for capture, so it's rather meagre processing power is more than enough. 

HTH

Rich :icon_biggrin:

 

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pete_l

pete_l

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My personal experience of using these is that they are not satisfactory. I have 2 different Intel Atom based compute-stick devices and neither one works very well. The WiFi is particularly poor: they cannot sustain a connection for more than a few hours and the speed of access to their internal storage is very slow.

One runs W8 and the other is on W10. The plan was to have them in the observatory to control individual telescopes, but they never really worked out. What I have now is Gigabyte BRIX (which is also Intel Atom based) which has no moving parts (no fans and an SSD). They are  more expensive but are far more reliable and have more RAM. The WiFi connection stays up and I can run RDP on them from my office all night.

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swag72

swag72

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Posted

I have to say that I've had enough of my mini NUC Intel PC..... It's VERY unreliable and finally the HD has died. I'm pleased... I'm going to get a refurbished desktop from somewhere like Morgans, with 10 USB's that means that I don't need my hub either.... win win I'd say. I will never get a mini PC again... although I do currently have another which has proved to be good so far!!

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RayD

RayD

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Posted

I think as with most stuff like this, you get what you pay for, and it's probably better to err on the side of OTT than only just.

I thought this was such a large part of the whole process that I was prepared to invest a little more to get something that to date has been flawless.  Yes, as noted above, this comes at a price, but it gives me 2 x HDMI, 2 x LAN ( 1 failover), Wifi, 4 x USB3 and 4 x USB2, 125GB SSD and 8GB of Ram.  Mine runs an Intel i5 and is fanless, and I use an external Samsung USB3 SSD for image capture, which I can then unplug and take indoors to transfer from for processing.  It all runs on 12VDC.

This is the one I have, but of course there are many others, but I wanted it specifically with W10 Pro as I use RDP like Rich, and feel I am nowhere near pushing it to its capacity.

I have sprayed mine internally with ACF50 and all seems fine so far, but I haven't pushed it through a hard winter yet.

The main problem is either way you are going to need a hub of some sort at the rig, and this can be in the form of the actual PC, or separate hubs and cables.  I chose the former as it is neater and I believe more reliable.

As Sara notes, you probably won't beat a desktop ultimately, but these types of PC are pretty much there, but not quite.  The downside of a desktop is they won't run on 12V.

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pete_l

pete_l

Posted
Posted
32 minutes ago, RayD said:

As Sara notes, you probably won't beat a desktop ultimately, but these types of PC are pretty much there, but not quite.  The downside of a desktop is the won't run on 12V.

The reason I decided against a desktop in the obsy was because of insects. In this part of Spain, in the campo, the place is crawling with them!

I wanted a unit that stood a fair chance of not providing a home for millions of the little blighters. Not just because of the problems they cause, but to keep them away from "stepping up" to nesting (or whatever they do) in my optics or mount. So I wanted a computer that was as close as possible to a sealed unit.

Your fanless unit (like mine) seems to come pretty close to that.

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RayD

RayD

Posted
Posted
9 minutes ago, pete_l said:

The reason I decided against a desktop in the obsy was because of insects. In this part of Spain, in the campo, the place is crawling with them!

I wanted a unit that stood a fair chance of not providing a home for millions of the little blighters. Not just because of the problems they cause, but to keep them away from "stepping up" to nesting (or whatever they do) in my optics or mount. So I wanted a computer that was as close as possible to a sealed unit.

Your fanless unit (like mine) seems to come pretty close to that.

Yes my house there is also way out in the campo in the Sierra de las Nieves, so I certainly understand your problems (wasps at the moment thinking my pool is their personal drinking trough).  My main reason for wanting fanless was the dust, which as you will know, in the campo is a real issue.

I'm more than happy with mine I have to say, and yes it is about as close to a desktop as you're probably going to get, both in functionality and performance.  Obviously this does come at a cost, so no, this isn't a cheap option, but compared to my mount at knocking on for £6k, I saw the £350 for this as very doable and worthwhile.

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Macavity

Macavity

Posted
Posted

You can certainly get *variants* of Desktop CPUs which operate
at some fraction of the power of their more conventional siblings.
A little can go a long way re. Wattage and temp reduction! Such
things are a consideration, for the needs of uz mere mortals. :)

I have a certain "thing" against people who think they *need*
the latest "electricity guzzling" PC to do rather simple tasks. :p
 

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RayD

RayD

Posted
Posted
28 minutes ago, swag72 said:

I hadn't thought of insects or dust in my quest for a new PC...... If I want a desktop, which I do, can i get fanless?

 

I think in your position Sara fanless is a reasonable consideration if for nothing else the inevitable Sahara wind dust storms which I assume you also get.  Of course they are probably not ideal if you solar image as they probably won't like the heat (don't believe you do but thought I'd say).  You can just open the case and stick a small piece of flyscreen inside the vent openings, which won't affect the cooling efficiency, but should stop the little monsters nesting.  With this said I'm not sure there is a huge choice of fanless desktops, with the larger processors typically needed forced air cooling.  Most now seem to go for smart cooling, which controls a variable speed fan, but still not fanless.

If you prefer the desktop I would think a normal one will be fine, but I would just say in a dusty or critter prone environment just have a service regime in place, where say once every 3 or 4 months you slip off the case and give it a good clean.

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RayD

RayD

Posted
Posted
11 minutes ago, swag72 said:

Good idea Ray! The new refurbished PC has just been ordered, should be good enough to run the single scope in the obs :)

Also got 12xUSB.... goodbye USB hub and hello one less cable and power plug :)

Great idea with the extra USB's Sara.  I have 8 on mine, and 3 on the MHP, and that is only just enough with only 1 spare, so 12 sounds absolutely ideal.

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RayD

RayD

Posted
Posted
9 minutes ago, Grotemobile said:

http://www.argos.co.uk/product/6788371

I have just bought this. 128 ssd drive. Should give about 12 hours running. Bit less if it 

used out side. Not the latest CPU, but the write up is very good. 

Looks really good and ideal for a mobile rig.  I'm not sure it would be overly happy with the type of dual rig Sara runs, and size of images downloading, but it's a great price for sure.

I remember laptops were hugely expensive years ago, but I suppose battery and screen technology is so good now, the costs are sometimes almost unbelievably low.  Acer stuff also seems to be pretty good, I have a triple screen array in my office (yes greedy I know) all of which are 27" Acer, and all really good.

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stash_old

stash_old

Posted
Posted
1 hour ago, Grotemobile said:

http://www.argos.co.uk/product/6788371

I have just bought this. 128 ssd drive. Should give about 12 hours running. Bit less if it 

used out side. Not the latest CPU, but the write up is very good. 

I very much doubt you will get 12hrs or anything like that - the figure quoted is when power saving is invoked which is not a good thing when doing Astro. Other than that it will be fine.

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Grotemobile

Grotemobile

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Posted

A lot of it depends on screen brightness. 75%  & it does say 12hrs. About 10hours on 100% surfing the net.  No fans or any thing. Uses passive cooling.  The first laptop went back . Made by HP. Using a A2 AMD CPU. Very very slow.  4 hour battery life.  Very pleased with this.  

On ‎01‎/‎08‎/‎2017 at 12:07, stash_old said:

I very much doubt you will get 12hrs or anything like that - the figure quoted is when power saving is invoked which is not a good thing when doing Astro. Other than that it will be fine.

 

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Grotemobile

Grotemobile

Posted
Posted
57 minutes ago, kirkster501 said:

HP 8300 with 10x USB2 and SSD 128G from Ebay for £120 on the mount.  Second PC to VNC into it (£100).

 

I could have gone down the s/hand route. @ least I have got some come back if it goes wrong. You just seem

to be lucky or not, with electrical stuff off the bay. So many scammers out there.

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