First viewing with mixed feelings

[Mad Matt]

So last night was my first ever time viewing the night sky through a telescope ( Meade LS 8") and i have mixed feelings about what i saw. I only had a couple of hours as i was up early this morning for work, started at 11pm till 1am.

 

I chose Jupiter as it was the brightest star in the sky, selected it on the hand set and the telescope went straight to it. Now i wasn't expecting to see Jupiter in full colour and clarity but at least expected to see the different shades of gasses? All i actually saw was a perfectly round dark grey circle. I even changed lenses and again all i saw was them same but larger. Now i wasn't completely disappointed as i could clearly see two distinct moon around Jupiter which made the hairs on the back of my head stand up. I would never have believed i would ever see Jupiters moons. I was amazed and so happy.

 

Im not great with which star/planet is which but i manually panned higher and to the left to another star (no idea what its called) which appeared to have some kind of halo or atmosphere????

 

So besides the moons around Jupiter and the halo around the unknown star/planet is all i can ever expect to see is dark grey discs??

 

Will be out again tonight for longer as I'm off work tomorrow...

 

 

[Stu]

You should be able to see a fair amount of detail with an 8" scope, provided it is cooled and collimated properly.

Were the moons in focus, i.e. Did they look like tiny pin points of light?

The star could have perhaps been Arcturus, depends how far up and how far left you went ?. Either way, it should not have a halo around it, is it possible your front plate had dewed up?

This is an iPhone image taken through a 4" frac. You should be able to see detail like this, and much better actually.

[Mad Matt]

Thanks Stu, thats exactly what i was hoping to see but all i got was a dark grey disc, I'm obviously doing something wrong. This telescope ha a built in light switch so what I'm seeing is a bright back round and then dark disc in the middle, should i be switching the light off??

[darknight]

as stu said you should be able to have seen more, fogging of main mirror, collimation maybe? focus not quite right, and you should see all 4 moons, which leads me to think it maybe a problem like fogging.

could the ring hazy one be Saturn, it was to the right but low, or yes arcturus

[ronin]

Something is/was not right. You should have got a disk and a couple of bands. Will say that that 11:00 Jupiter would be low in the West-North West. The altitude of it would not help.

Which eyepiece? So in effect which magnification? Just people seem to be trying for magnification that are unnecessarily high, a 15mm or even 20mm in yours should be OK for Jupiter.

I guess the one left and up a bit was Saturn, so the "halo" may have been the rings altering the shape - Galileo said it had "ears". You may have got Antares as an alternative - nice big red one, close to Saturn as it happens just a bit lower so less easy. Best guess is Saturn.

Arcturus was above and a bit right of Jupiter a couple of nights back at 1:00.

Your reply has appeared, Yes switch it off, have used an LS6 and never met anything like that.

[Stu]

2 minutes ago, Mad Matt said:

Thanks Stu, thats exactly what i was hoping to see but all i got was a dark grey disc, I'm obviously doing something wrong. This telescope ha a built in light switch so what I'm seeing is a bright back round and then dark disc in the middle, should i be switching the light off??

Not sure what the light would be for, but yes, that should be switched off!

Do you think you had found focus properly?

[Stu]

5 minutes ago, ronin said:

Will say that that 11:00 Jupiter would be low in the West-North West. The altitude of it would not help

Jupiter would be in the South West at 11pm

5 minutes ago, ronin said:

I guess the one left and up a bit was Saturn

Saturn would be in the South South East, quite a way from Jupiter and lower so seems unlikely.

[Stu]

8 minutes ago, ronin said:

Arcturus was above and a bit right of Jupiter a couple of nights back at 1:00.

Arcturus is currently above and left of Jupiter, worth checking these details before posting @ronin

[Mad Matt]

4 minutes ago, ronin said:

Something is/was not right. You should have got a disk and a couple of bands. Will say that that 11:00 Jupiter would be low in the West-North West. The altitude of it would not help.

Which eyepiece? So in effect which magnification? Just people seem to be trying for magnification that are unnecessarily high, a 15mm or even 20mm in yours should be OK for Jupiter.

I guess the one left and up a bit was Saturn, so the "halo" may have been the rings altering the shape - Galileo said it had "ears". You may have got Antares as an alternative - nice big red one, close to Saturn as it happens just a bit lower so less easy. Best guess is Saturn.

Arcturus was above and a bit right of Jupiter a couple of nights back at 1:00.

Your reply has appeared, Yes switch it off, have used an LS6 and never met anything like that.

The eyepieces were a 26mm and then i tried a 9mm. The only problem i have with switching the light switch off is that every time you switch it on it goes through all that finding itself and levelling itself? 

 

So the issue i can see me having is, i switch it on for the telescope to find where it is and level itself, i then program it to find Jupiter, it finds Jupiter so i switch it off to get a clear view but when Jupiter moves i have to switch back on to slew which then means the telescope goes through the whole process of finding itself again...

 

Does this make sense?? Or am i being dumb??

[Mad Matt]

2 minutes ago, Stu said:

Arcturus is currently above and left of Jupiter, worth checking these details before posting @ronin

Im almost certain it was Arcturus, which I'm going to google

[Stu]

2 minutes ago, Mad Matt said:

The eyepieces were a 26mm and then i tried a 9mm. The only problem i have with switching the light switch off is that every time you switch it on it goes through all that finding itself and levelling itself? 

 

So the issue i can see me having is, i switch it on for the telescope to find where it is and level itself, i then program it to find Jupiter, it finds Jupiter so i switch it off to get a clear view but when Jupiter moves i have to switch back on to slew which then means the telescope goes through the whole process of finding itself again...

 

Does this make sense?? Or am i being dumb??

Is the light on the handset? If so then you should leave it on, no need to keep recalibrating every time, I thought you meant there was a light in the actual scope! Seemed a bit strange  

[alanjgreen]

24 minutes ago, Mad Matt said:

Thanks Stu, thats exactly what i was hoping to see but all i got was a dark grey disc, I'm obviously doing something wrong. This telescope ha a built in light switch so what I'm seeing is a bright back round and then dark disc in the middle, should i be switching the light off??

Hi Matt,

Sounds like you were "out of focus". An SCT shows a bright disc and black small centre disk when out of focus.

SCTs have a huge focus range on the focuser knob, so I suggest that you get to the same point again then try 20+ turns of the focuser in one direction, then 20+20 back in the opposite direction. You are aiming to find a point when the stars come to single points of light.

Alternatively, setup in the daytime *DO NOT POINT AT THE SUN !!* and try focusing on distant tree, chimney, aerial, telephone pole (at least half mile away). This will enable you to get the hang of using the focus knob and try out the different eyepieces.

- always start with the highest numbered eyepiece and get a good view (this is low magnification and has best chance of a good focus)

- then swap to lowered numbered eyepieces and repeat...

HTH,

Alan

P.S. We have all had challenging "first nights", so dont get disheartened It is just a learning curve and it will be long forgotten after a couple more nights out!

 

[Ricochet]

7 minutes ago, Mad Matt said:

Thanks Stu, thats exactly what i was hoping to see but all i got was a dark grey disc, I'm obviously doing something wrong. This telescope ha a built in light switch so what I'm seeing is a bright back round and then dark disc in the middle, should i be switching the light off??

When you say light switch do you mean an actual light that turns on somewhere outside the scope or just an option on the handset called "lightswitch"? If it is somehow the former turn it off, but if it is the latter leave it on because that is just Meade's name for auto alignment and not a light!

As for the bright background with a dark disc that is exactly what you would expect for an SCT that is massively out of focus. Adjust the focuser so that the disc starts getting smaller and keep going until the disc disappears and the stars/planets start to come into focus. Keep turning the focuser to make them smaller. Focus is achieved when each object is at it's smallest. If it starts getting bigger again you have gone past the focus point.

Based on what you have said I suspect that you spent a few hours essentially looking at the inside of your telescope and so yes, you will see much better images once you achieve proper focus.

[Stu]

2 minutes ago, Mad Matt said:

Im almost certain it was Arcturus, which I'm going to google

Here you go

[ronin]

 

Interesting difference in the view. The above (now below) is what I was looking at at 1:00 Wednesday morning

Jupiter was so low I could only see it along the road itself as the houses got in the way and Arcturus was as shown. Actually it was amusing to loo alog the road and have a Jupiter looking back along it at me.

Will the image display, bet it doesn't.

At last an image that I can see, as said it was 1:00 - bit later then 11:00 and that matches what I was looking at. One of those days/nights where nothing good occurred and I couldn't sleep. As the lights get switched off at 12:00 it was decently dark when I went out.

Was hoping to see Antares but didn't, well unless I didn't see Saturn and mistook Antares for it but Antares is redder.

For the time I gave, 1:00, and what I saw then the Stellarium extract matches. Will say that these planetariums rotate the sky in a slightly different manner to which we see the sky. So Left and Right are slightly questionable when displayed.

4th go at getting it in.

 

[Stu]

1 hour ago, ronin said:

 

Interesting difference in the view. The above (now below) is what I was looking at at 1:00 Wednesday morning

Jupiter was so low I could only see it along the road itself as the houses got in the way and Arcturus was as shown. Actually it was amusing to loo alog the road and have a Jupiter looking back along it at me.

Will the image display, bet it doesn't.

At last an image that I can see, as said it was 1:00 - bit later then 11:00 and that matches what I was looking at. One of those days/nights where nothing good occurred and I couldn't sleep. As the lights get switched off at 12:00 it was decently dark when I went out.

Was hoping to see Antares but didn't, well unless I didn't see Saturn and mistook Antares for it but Antares is redder.

For the time I gave, 1:00, and what I saw then the Stellarium extract matches. Will say that these planetariums rotate the sky in a slightly different manner to which we see the sky. So Left and Right are slightly questionable when displayed.

4th go at getting it in.

 

No difference Ronin, I was referring to the position at 11pm which has a different rotation it. I would hope you agree that Jupiter was not in the West North West?

[Mad Matt]

Thanks so much for the help guys, will be spending much longer getting it right tonight

[barkis]

Saturn is at declination minus 21  degrees, so unless your southern horizon is clear of obstructions, the planet will.be difficult for you to get your scope to it .  Add to the warm temperatures dropping as the evening air cools, the seeing would not be all that good.                                             Your telescope should be capable of presenting you with WoW views, so maybe there's something not right.       Perhaps you live close to another member, who  might be able to visit, and suss things  out for you. 

[rockystar]

I'd suggest bringing it down to Heaton Park on a Thursday evening - if you're anywhere near - but we're out of season at the moment, don't start back up the Astro sessions until the end of September. We'll get you sorted though

 

[Mad Matt]

2 hours ago, rockystar said:

I'd suggest bringing it down to Heaton Park on a Thursday evening - if you're anywhere near - but we're out of season at the moment, don't start back up the Astro sessions until the end of September. We'll get you sorted though

 

This is something id be interested in especially toward the end of September, thank you...

[Mad Matt]

So great news, and bad news. First the very good news and most important. I followed the advice given re focusing and sure enough i saw a pea sized planet with two clear streaks going through it accompanied by 3 bright moons to the left and one to the right. Really didn't expect to see Jupiter with such clarity, just wish i could take a photo....

 

The bad news is i only got half an hour as the batteries ran flat, adapter should be here tomorrow...

 

Feeling really please tonight

[Moonshane]

Although small you can pick out quite a bit of detail with practice. Here's a recent sketch I did

[Dave In Vermont]

Here's a 'sticky' thread that many find quite helpful:

Yes - it is a very large & long one!

Enjoy -

Dave

[rockystar]

7 hours ago, Mad Matt said:

This is something id be interested in especially toward the end of September, thank you...

keep an eye on their website for the exact date http://www.hpag.co.uk/

hope to see you there ?

and congratulations on your success

[Knighty2112]

Get a bahtinov mask for your scope to help you achieve nearly perfect focus. It does sound more like your were out of focus. I was observing Jupiter last night too. It wasn't great seeing with Jupiter last night, but with a either a 30mm or 10mm EP in my C8 SCT the bands where quite easily visible. It does only talks a small amount for it to be out of focus to be just a smudge of light though. Saturn was much better last night to observe, which I was surprised about as it was lower down in the murk, but good seeing and fine detail visible easily. 

Your scope should pick up these things very well, but focusing is very critical to getting the best view especially at higher magnifications. If possible focus your scope during the daytime on something as far from you as possible. This will get your focus pretty close to be able to then just fine tune focus with very small tweaks when you look at the night sky, but do get a bahtinov mask to use. It is one of my crucial pieces of equipment that I use to make sure focus is spot on for every observing session.