A Refractor for my 65th?

[Alfian]

A significant birthday looms very soon. although I will be keeping my hand in a go to work if i feel like it kind of way - lucky me.  Marking the occasion to myself, having saved a bit  and might just accrue a little more, I feel a refractor coming on.  I had promised myself some big binos, but for various reasons  I think that one is slipping away.  My observing  needs are modest, I think, which is to say that over the last couple of years, experience mainly to do with the weather, has required me to be realistic as to what I would like to do and what it is likely I can achieve. I have no aspiration re AP and I particularly enjoy luna observation and star clusters. Though I have a few (110, 130, 150) reflectors and I'm currently rebuilding my Tal1, I'm not that fond of diffraction spikes, and given that the narrow fov of a Mak really doesn't fit the bill, it leaves me with refractors which is just as well, as I like the views through a refractor!  I have a TS 80mm f7.5 which is surprisingly good and fitted with a GSO 2" r&p focuser it gives me some good wide field views.  However, not quite satisfied, I'm looking at something a little bigger and better, (hopefully). and manageable size and weight wise, that I can use on my AZ4. With the AZ4 I think I'm coming to realise that an extension pillar is going to be a must in the end if I'm to save my back with respect to a longer refractor. A recent conversation with Jules(Nightfisher) led me down the ED100 path which certainly fits the bill but even second hand I fear that it is going to be a bit too much of a push.  For some time I've kept looking at the RVO 90/800, but I've now noticed the Antares Elite 93mm F11 which at £300 including a 2" dielectric diagonal makes it in some respects a similar price to the 90/800. It only has a 2" r&p focuser, but the GSO one I use is not so bad (once tweaked a little).I've found a few references to it where its come up on the forum before and someone on CN likes the one he/she has, but I wonder whether anyone here has any experience, thoughts or comments on it or indeed any other suggestions? Thanks.

http://www.rothervalleyoptics.co.uk/antares-elite-93mm-f11-achromat-refractor-ota.html

[Moonshane]

Personally I have never been really happy with anything other than an ED frac. You do see the Celestron 100mm f9s coming up quite frequently and this would be a good buy or alternatively the older gold 100mm f10 Skywatcher EDs are often cheaper than the newer ones but just the same really. Certainly both are usually about the £300 quoted.

[DRT]

A firm favourite around here is the Altair Starwave 102 F11 which often come up second hand for anything between £200-£300. If you are friends with Jules ask him about this scope as he sold me his some time ago so knows it well

 

In fact, there is one here for £250 in Hull: http://www.astrobuysell.com/uk/propview.php?view=121248

 

[Alfian]

6 minutes ago, DRT said:

A firm favourite around here is the Altair Starwave 102 F11 which often come up second hand for anything between £200-£300. If you are friends with Jules ask him about this scope as he sold me his some time ago so knows it well

 

In fact, there is one here for £250 in Hull: http://www.astrobuysell.com/uk/propview.php?view=121248

 

Yes, thats a big one!  A lot of scope for the money.  How would an OTA that long behave on an AZ4?

 

10 minutes ago, Moonshane said:

Personally I have never been really happy with anything other than an ED frac. You do see the Celestron 100mm f9s coming up quite frequently and this would be a good buy or alternatively the older gold 100mm f10 Skywatcher EDs are often cheaper than the newer ones but just the same really. Certainly both are usually about the £300 quoted.

I think a Celestron came up recently around £350 but was way up in Scotland, too far to go and look at.

 

 

[nightfisher]

For my input:

First congrats on the up and coming big birthday, you are wearing well my friend.

I would discount the 102 f11 as this would lead you to wanting a sturdier mount, i dont think you would be happy with the 102 on the AZ4 i did not like it, a TAL100 is at the limit, also it would defo need a pillar extension to save on the back

Re ED refractors, i am going to put my neck on the line for some adverse replies but im thick                       skinned

Having owned 3 ED fracs a 71mm an 80mm and now the 120, i dont believe them to be "the must have" it all depends on what you want from your scope, i still feel bang for buck my Tal100 has given me the best views to date, i bought my 120ED after bowing to a certain amount of forum pressure and in hind  sight a standard 120 evostar would have done all i want from a scope, but it is nice to have the ED, a well corrected achro will give very nice views of Luna, clusters and a lot of deep sky, where it lets its self down is with planets, false colour can be very annoying on mars and Jupiter, also 100mm aperture is where it starts to get interesting, showing a little more resolution

An ED100 would be a VERY good choice, great views and at 900 F/L will work well on the AZ4, second best could well be the Antares, i think if you were to order this from RVO they might include a return policy thast if you are not delighted they will take it back, worth asking

 

BTW there is a TAL for sale on here but no tube rings so it would mean sourcing CNC rings

[DRT]

16 minutes ago, Alfian said:

Yes, thats a big one!  A lot of scope for the money.  How would an OTA that long behave on an AZ4?

I've never used an AZ4 but Jules has answered the question in his comments above.

[nightfisher]

Ian, if you would like to have a look through the 120ED we will sort some thing out, see if you feel you need an ED

[Alfian]

I hadn't seen that Tal Jules, and even if it had tube rings, Maidenhead is a bit of slog. It had struck me that the 102 F11 would be a bit OTT for the AZ4, thinking that 1000mm would be somewhere near the limit. Thats why the 900 (ED) seemed so attractive and of course the 800. If nothing else comes up I'll probably go down to RVO at least to have a look.

[DRT]

I was in RVO yesterday and noticed they had a couple of nice Antares fracs on the shelf but it might be worth calling ahead to make sure one of them is the one you are interested in.

[nightfisher]

Still think its worth holding out for a 100ED......more for the aperture and focal length, but the Antares SHOULD be Vixen sourced optics and that would make it a very nice achro

[John]

I've owned quite a few achromats (longer ones and nicer ones such as the TAL 100 and Vixen 102) but, like Shane, I'm a firm fan of ED doublets now. You can push them hard (ie: beyond 50x per inch ) and the images still hold up well.

They do cost more though

 

 

 

[Alfian]

46 minutes ago, DRT said:

I was in RVO yesterday and noticed they had a couple of nice Antares fracs on the shelf but it might be worth calling ahead to make sure one of them is the one you are interested in.

Hi Derek,  yes it makes sense to ensure that they have things in stock. I've been in touch a couple of times and always had friendly service.

 

55 minutes ago, nightfisher said:

Ian, if you would like to have a look through the 120ED we will sort some thing out, see if you feel you need an ED

Hi Jules, I's enjoy that, thankyou. We'll have to coordinate it somehow. Whether skies will still be clear after traveling a dozen miles or so is in the lap of the gods.

 

1 hour ago, nightfisher said:

First congrats on the up and coming big birthday, you are wearing well my friend

Thankyou! Looks can be deceptive. You know you sometimes see a 2nd hand car for sale on the side of the road, 20 years old, low mileage for its age, great paint work, looks well. Turns out its suspension, ball joints, brakes etc are all shot and as to under the bonnet - just don't look! Ive had more visits to the "garage" this past 2 years than most of my life put together!

As to the 100ED, I certainly wouldn't rule it out, just a matter of  something suitable popping up  within range and within  budget.

[John]

It's worth remembering that the glass used in the Skywatcher / Celestron ED doubets is Japanese and I reckon Vixen had a hand in designing the objectives for them.

 

[Alfian]

7 minutes ago, John said:

You can push them hard (ie: beyond 50x per inch ) and the images still hold up well.

Thanks John, I don't think I've found myself in a situation where I've pushed magnification that much! That said  the ability of a scopes optics to be able to do that speaks well of them.

[John]

1 minute ago, Alfian said:

Thanks John, I don't think I've found myself in a situation where I've pushed magnification that much! That said  the ability of a scopes optics to be able to do that speaks well of them.

I used to stick to more "reasonable" magnifications but started to find that certain targets needed more "oomph"

[Alfian]

3 minutes ago, John said:

certain targets needed more "oomph"

Just thinking of a recent topic concerning how we describe to spouses/partners/family what we are about, it would be quite amusing to explain to my better half that I'm "popping out to give a target a bit more oomph!

[mikeDnight]

3 hours ago, Alfian said:

A significant birthday looms very soon. although I will be keeping my hand in a go to work if i feel like it kind of way - lucky me.  Marking the occasion to myself, having saved a bit  and might just accrue a little more, I feel a refractor coming on.  I had promised myself some big binos, but for various reasons  I think that one is slipping away.  My observing  needs are modest, I think, which is to say that over the last couple of years, experience mainly to do with the weather, has required me to be realistic as to what I would like to do and what it is likely I can achieve. I have no aspiration re AP and I particularly enjoy luna observation and star clusters. Though I have a few (110, 130, 150) reflectors and I'm currently rebuilding my Tal1, I'm not that fond of diffraction spikes, and given that the narrow fov of a Mak really doesn't fit the bill, it leaves me with refractors which is just as well, as I like the views through a refractor!  I have a TS 80mm f7.5 which is surprisingly good and fitted with a GSO 2" r&p focuser it gives me some good wide field views.  However, not quite satisfied, I'm looking at something a little bigger and better, (hopefully). and manageable size and weight wise, that I can use on my AZ4. With the AZ4 I think I'm coming to realise that an extension pillar is going to be a must in the end if I'm to save my back with respect to a longer refractor. A recent conversation with Jules(Nightfisher) led me down the ED100 path which certainly fits the bill but even second hand I fear that it is going to be a bit too much of a push.  For some time I've kept looking at the RVO 90/800, but I've now noticed the Antares Elite 93mm F11 which at £300 including a 2" dielectric diagonal makes it in some respects a similar price to the 90/800. It only has a 2" r&p focuser, but the GSO one I use is not so bad (once tweaked a little).I've found a few references to it where its come up on the forum before and someone on CN likes the one he/she has, but I wonder whether anyone here has any experience, thoughts or comments on it or indeed any other suggestions? Thanks.

http://www.rothervalleyoptics.co.uk/antares-elite-93mm-f11-achromat-refractor-ota.html

When I decided I wanted to buy my present refractor, I knew I'd have to do some serious clear out of much of my setup at the time, so I sold my existing scopes to fund the venture. Perhaps you could consider selling your TS80 and your 110 and 130 reflectors and add the proceeds to your refractor fund. I'm suggesting this because the 100ED is vastly superior to the achromats you're considering and could be all the telescope you'll ever need. I very much doubt you'd use your 150 reflector much once you had the ED, though it may have some small advantage on dso's. I don't regret what I did and thought it could be an option for you also if you would really prefer the superlative ED!

Mike 

[Moonshane]

[Joseki]

Fitting your tal newt with a curved vane spider could be a very low cost solution. 

[Alfian]

6 minutes ago, mikeDnight said:

When I decided I wanted to buy my present refractor, I knew I'd have to do some serious clear out of much of my setup at the time, so I sold my existing scopes to fund the venture. Perhaps you could consider selling your TS80 and your 110 and 130 reflectors and add the proceeds to your refractor fund. I'm suggesting this because the 100ED is vastly superior to the achromats you're considering and could be all the telescope you'll ever need. I very much doubt you'd use your 150 reflector much once you had the ED, though it may have some small advantage on dso's. I don't regret what I did and thought it could be an option for you also if you would really prefer the superlative ED!

Mike 

Hi Mike,  I've sold some stuff already and it had occurred to me to sell the 150P but I wouldn't sell the 80 or the Tal.

[Alfian]

4 minutes ago, Joseki said:

Fitting your tal newt with a curved vane spider could be a very low cost solution. 

Thats a possibility I think. Strangely enough I've just today had both mirrors out to clean them - and yes they did need cleaning, I've taken photos! All went well fortunately (phew - didn't need the brillos!) The Tal is a surprising "little" scope with good optics.

[nightfisher]

Defo keep the Tal 1, great scope good luck with this, its not easy and made harder when trying to fund the purchase, i would not have got the 120ED if i had to find the bulk of the cash, but the stuff i sold more or less funded it

[John]

49 minutes ago, Joseki said:

Fitting your tal newt with a curved vane spider could be a very low cost solution. 

Good idea but I guess it's not such an exciting treat for your 65th birthday

[Alfian]

10 minutes ago, John said:

Good idea but I guess it's not such an exciting treat for your 65th birthday

I wasn't thinking either/or but both! Assuming the Tal comes together as planned, it still has limitations mainly because of the focuser.

[nightfisher]

Ian, your only 65 once so get a nice frac, what is your preference of celestial objects to view, lets see if another achro is going to tick the box`s