Revelation 8" F/6 M-CRF Premium Dobsonian

[BiPolarGhost]

1 minute ago, Charic said:

I would just look at the weather and if its a clear night,  pop along and see what they have. 
If were talking about the Astronomy Centre, I have not tried the email address you mention, but you could Private message Peter here at SGL, I`m sure he won't mind!

That would be great. Whats his name on here? Can you add him to this thread?

[Jimtheslim]

I was torn between the Revelation 12" and the Skywatcher 10" dob. I decided on the Skywatcher despite it's lack of cooling fan and dual speed focuser. I just allow a little longer for my to cool so the lack of fan is no problem. I don't have a dual speed but get on fine without one. I am sure both the scopes will perform brilliantly and give you some great views. I had seen Jupiter quite nicely through my 4" frac before, but the first time I looked at it through my 10" dob on a good, still night with a decent ortho eyepiece it was absolutely stunning. The 8" I am sure will deliver a similar experience, polar regions will be defined as will the 2 equatorial belts and the temperate belts and festoons. The Great Red Spot will be clear to see. Saturn will deliver similar breath-taking views.

As for galaxies a lot of them can look a bit like smudges, this is where getting to a good, dark site really comes in as the contrast between the feint light emitted and the surrounding black space becomes critical. If you have the money for an 8" dob and perhaps a decent eyepiece then you can't go to far wrong. Treat it well and it will retain a lot of it's value if you end up feeling the hobby is not for you.

[Stu]

23 minutes ago, Timebandit said:

Hi. It's taken from a 4" refractor . A refractor is a lens type scope. The 8" revelation and 200p are mirror based scope. Two different types of scope. A refractor scope will generally produce a sharper crisper image, and a reflector scope a softer image. But you will get decent views still with a reflector and a lot more aperture for your money. Therefore bang for buck go with a reflector 

Hope this helps☺

Not sure I would say you get a softer image from a newt, although I know what you are trying to say. I've seen very fine views of Jupiter through a wide range of scopes at star parties, it's often surprising just how good the views are through supposed basic scopes like the 150p

[Charic]

44 minutes ago, BiPolarGhost said:

That would be great. Whats his name on here? Can you add him to this thread?

Peter will see this thread due to the earlier  link , but you can also go into the BROWSE tab MEMBERS search for Peter Drew.
Click on his AVATAR and a message box becomes available.

Its a great option to be able to try something first to see if its right for you, but we don't always take that option, I did'nt, and learnt from experience, but Im sure I could have been swayed against my first purchase?  Yet I could still set-up and demonstrate my Celestron 127EQ and you would probably be quite happy with the views of the Moon, and possibly some  ships at Sea, this being  your first  telescope, but after a while ( maybe a few minutes? ) you may  want for an easier option to see the Stars and the Moon, that's the reason I gave up with that scope and bought the 200P, The difference is very notable, the detail is obvious.

I doubt very much  the equipment in the astronomy centre is inferior, some possibly out of the price range for newcomers, but just to see whats available, how it works, and best of all, to actually  listen to folk and quite possibly see something on the night, means a lot to the prospective buyer. If you have the opportunity to visit, take it. So many folk ask "Ive just bought x-telescope, can you tell me if its any good?" Its a hard question, because you have to be honest but sometimes blunt!  Yes it might be a cheap buy, and you will see the Moon, but so inferior in performance in other areas that  its about as useful as a chocolate fireguard, but that's only my impression, my experience. Give that scope to a child, it  becomes the bees knees, the dogs ? and provides the start for a lifelong ambition. On specifications alone  if a telescope has less than mine, then its less full stop imho, but that's just being blunt,  my experience is limited, I don't own an astronomy shop, or visit a club ( a ruling issue ? ) to try other scopes,  but do listen, read and observe the views and recommendations of others, in order to find what suits me best. Like I say in my signature, no guarantee this stuff will work for you!

While your still contemplating check out ( if you have'nt already ) Stellarium http://www.stellarium.org/en_GB/ its a FREE Planetarium, brilliant, just brilliant. Set it up for your location, the take a look outside ( you`ll see what I mean!)
Also check out the possibilities of using binoculars, they don't have the same ooomph in magnification as a telescope, but are great to have alongside, or alone depending on the weather conditions, for a quick look between the cloud breaks in the night sky. Another good site to learn from here http://www.binocularsky.com/ provided by yet another member here Steve Tonkin

[Timebandit]

24 minutes ago, Stu said:

Not sure I would say you get a softer image from a newt, although I know what you are trying to say. I've seen very fine views of Jupiter through a wide range of scopes at star parties, it's often surprising just how good the views are through supposed basic scopes like the 150p

 

Hi Stu. I was trying to give the OP a bit of background information in regards to refractor v reflector. I have had some very nice sharp images through the 14" 1/10 on planets, and on image scale the reflector won every time.But the best views I have ever had in regards to sharpness and crispness of the planets came the way of a refractor. I compare it to ordinary television picture viewing compared to HD television , you just seem to get that extra sharpness with a refractor compared to a reflector IMO. And as for bang for buck unfortunately a great refractor is just so much more money per aperture than a reflector. Anway best not get into the refractor v reflector debate to much overwise we will be starting another post?. Just to say I have a foot in both camps so completely unbiased, both are great and both have their differences and benefits IMO☺ 

[Charic]

56 minutes ago, Stu said:

........ at star parties, it's often surprising just how good the views are through supposed basic scopes like the 150p

I would imagine most Star parties are at the best locations, away from light pollution, allowing  telescopes, not just the 150P,  to work so well.
There is a vast difference between what I can see using my scope from the garden vs. country road somewhere?
 
I'm fortunate, location wise,  when away from the house/street lights, on a dark Moonless night , as  there's so much Starlight, it casts shadows!  With eyes alone the view is stunning, and  the major constellations I see from the garden ( through light pollution ) have almost been swallowed up by the thousands of extra Stars at the darker site, actually making them harder to locate, but from the garden,  Ursa Major,  Cassiopeia stand out well , with the Milky way  just visible  over my head.

[Stu]

41 minutes ago, Charic said:

I would imagine most Star parties are at the best locations, away from light pollution, allowing  telescopes, not just the 150P,  to work so well.
There is a vast difference between what I can see using my scope from the garden vs. country road somewhere?
 
I'm fortunate, location wise,  when away from the house/street lights, on a dark Moonless night , as  there's so much Starlight, it casts shadows!  With eyes alone the view is stunning, and  the major constellations I see from the garden ( through light pollution ) have almost been swallowed up by the thousands of extra Stars at the darker site, actually making them harder to locate, but from the garden,  Ursa Major,  Cassiopeia stand out well , with the Milky way  just visible  over my head.

I was referring to planetary views actually, so LP is largely irrelevant. I had a look through a 150p not so long ago near me under quite poor conditions and was surprised how good the view is.

Charic, in the nicest possible way, I really don't understand why you don't have that 12" dob. The views under your skies would be stunning. If I were you I would have a 16" true dob, or bigger!! You'll be blown away I'm sure.

[Charic]

Say it anyway you like, I really need to compare, side-by-side, and I  like the simplicity of the Skyliner, so if one becomes available to me locally here in Scotland, I will have a look and maybe strike a deal, but I'm not going to purchase  first just to trial, I need to compare.
Like my eyepieces,  I still favour the cheaper ones as you may know!  but I`m with you on the belief that the 300P will outperform my present 200P home and away, and should a 300P come along, maybe I'll need the premium EP's.

 

 

[John]

Its worth bearing in mind that the reality of what can actually be seen at the eyepiece of a scope depends on quite a few factors beyond the capabilities of the scope itself. These include the seeing conditions at the time, light pollution levels (impact depends on target type) and the degree of experience of the observer. Having a decent aperture scope of good optical quality gives you the potential of good views but these other factors will heavily influence what you actually see.

On the planets, many initial reactions are that they are small in the eyepiece even when the magnification is high. And this is in fact true. Another initial feeling is often that, say, Jupiter, lacks detail apart from the 4 moons and the 2 main cloud belts. This is also true but, unless the seeing is poor and the scope not in good shape, time spent at the eyepiece will start to reveal more detail gradually and the more often you observe the planet, the more you will be able to see.

I'd say the image posted earlier in this thread shows the best results that are possible from scopes of the type being discussed, under favourable observing conditions and with an experienced eye.

 

[rockystar]

4 hours ago, BiPolarGhost said:

Yeah, Ill check that out. Do they all have massive scopes or would I be able to see some 8"?

actually most of them have refractors, and a couple of 130 reflectors, I'm the only one who goes there with a dob. Big dobs are best away from LP, and Heaton Park isn't the darkest site, but it is easily accessible, there is tea and biscuits, a few scopes and lots of nice folk.

you are more than welcome to come out with me, next time i go, but it's going to be a couple of weeks as I've got the mother-in-law staying at the moment, so trips out will be limited. PM me if you spot a clear night and fancy it for an hour or two, I'll see what i can do.

[BiPolarGhost]

3 hours ago, rockystar said:

actually most of them have refractors, and a couple of 130 reflectors, I'm the only one who goes there with a dob. Big dobs are best away from LP, and Heaton Park isn't the darkest site, but it is easily accessible, there is tea and biscuits, a few scopes and lots of nice folk.

you are more than welcome to come out with me, next time i go, but it's going to be a couple of weeks as I've got the mother-in-law staying at the moment, so trips out will be limited. PM me if you spot a clear night and fancy it for an hour or two, I'll see what i can do.

Thats interesting, what is the pros and cons of the refractor setup. I would really appreciate tagging along with you. PM me when you want to go, as you will be able to look at sky and decide if its a good night, whereas me I'm clueless. 

[Timebandit]

6 hours ago, Stu said:

 ,         

Charic, in the nicest possible way, I really don't understand why you don't have that 12" dob. The views under your skies would be stunning. If I were you I would have a 16" true dob, or bigger!! You'll be blown away I'm sure.

 

5 hours ago, Charic said:

Say it anyway you like, I really need to compare, side-by-side, and I  like the simplicity of the Skyliner, so if one becomes available to me locally here in Scotland, I will have a look and maybe strike a deal, but I'm not going to purchase  first just to trial, I need to compare.
Like my eyepieces,  I still favour the cheaper ones as you may know!  but I`m with you on the belief that the 300P will outperform my present 200P home and away, and should a 300P come along, maybe I'll need the premium EP's.

 

 

 

Hi Charic. I sure I have seen on post many times you mention about how much you like the 200p but would like to go up to a 12".  You obviously have a itch for a bigger aperture and all that extra light gathering ability. And I am sure your eyepieces like those quality Delos would really shine in a bigger aperture. Obviously you seem to want a solid tube design with regards to the mention of the skywatcher skyliner. . Skywatcher unfortunately do no longer make the skywatcher 12" solid tube design dob, and I have only seen one up for sale second hand and that was about 2years ago. So trying to locate one may be very difficult. Maybe a second hand Orion optics 12vx , but these still go for reasonable high money. Another possibility is the revelation 12" solid tube dob. I have been hearing positive things about this range over the past 12 months. Mark the moderator on the SGL site  owns one and he seems very impressed and happy with it. Maybe a revelation 12" solid tube design would be the choice for you to go for. I should imagine the 12" solid tube revelation would be very similar in design and performance to the old no longer made skywatcher 12" solid tube dob.   

With Christmas coming up maybe time to scratch the long time itch you have obviously had ,and go for a 12" and treat yourself. Very rarely do I hear people regret going up in aperture, especially to a 12" and has a nice increaseaof 4" over your present scope , a very worthwhile aperture increase to which will make a noticeable improvement through the eyepiece. You only live once Charic , give yourself a treat and get a 12" ,great aperture, still manageable to move  , will work well with those delos you have. ☺

[John]

The only bit of the spec of the Revelation 8" dob that bothers me is this:

".....1/12 wave, manufacturer's stated measurement...."

Whoever is stating that should, in my opinion, clarify whether it refers to RMS (Root Mean Square) or Peak to Valley (PV) measurement. I know this sounds pedantic but there is quite a difference between these two measurements. If it was a PV figure then the mirror would be outstanding - better than the Orion Optics Ultra Grade for which they charge around £500 for just an 8" F/6 primary mirror. Having queried it I've found that it's actually an RMS figure which means that the mirrors will be decent and average at around 1/4 to 1/6th wave PV.

I'm pleased to see that now some suppliers of these scopes are being a bit more explicit about the likely optical quality of these mirrors now and they seem to be on par with what you would expect from Skywatcher, which is not bad at all.

 

 

 

 

[Charic]

Cheers Timebandit. My time will come!  but maybe I should stop yearning in case its a little too obvious?
One  of the reasons for my recent road trip  Glasgow -Dundee - Aberdeen was to source a telescope, but none  were available, in any Brand in 300mm,  format, mainly due to lack of shops  that cater for the Astronomer up here in Scotland, though there used to be one in a small village not too far away, which closed some Years back, before I became as interested as I am now,   but when my Mrs suggested she buys me a new synthesizer for Christmas, I could not resist, so there goes  some of the Christmas money, and the synth will probably get used every  week, if not more,  which is more than can be said about the Skyliner's visit to the garden this Year ( she noticed that issue too) I doubt its been out more than 6-8 times in 2016. not that I don't want too,  or don't like the scope, far from it, but the  weather conditions have not allowed or the timing was wrong. Like I say, my time will come.
I liked the way you mention the Revelation,  it reminds me that I need one more Plössl to complete my 'set'

[Dave In Vermont]

I don't know if anyone has posted this link yet, but it really should be mentioned at least once. As you're quite new to the field of astronomy and telescopes, and you're wondering of what you'll be able to see with this or that telescope - this thread is a 'must' for such:

Have fun!

Dave

[BiPolarGhost]

Just an update.

The family and I went to see Peter Drew and his colleague Andy last night, amazingly knowledgeable blokes. Peter has sorted me out with a telescope. 

It's  an Orion Optics (UK) 8" F6 Newtonian on a EQ4 German equatorial mount with manual slow motions. Accessories include 2 eyepieces and a 10x50 right angled finder. 

I can't wait to pick it up and see what I can see. 

[Charic]

Your in great hands with the local help, and an 8" f/6 scope is a very good choice, more than adequate, even more so from darker observing sites under good seeing conditions.
The EQ4  GEM looks far superior to my Celestron Powerseeker GEM ( hoping to sell this today?) but it's not something I would return too, favouring the  easier to use and setup,  Dobsonian mount.
Both designs work well,   I just feel the Dobsonian method is quicker,  but side-by-side our scopes would see the same, therefore, knowing what I have,  your in for a treat. Dark skies ahead. 

 

ps. * It sold *

[BiPolarGhost]

5 hours ago, Charic said:

Your in great hands with the local help, and an 8" f/6 scope is a very good choice, more than adequate, even more so from darker observing sites under good seeing conditions.
The EQ4  GEM looks far superior to my Celestron Powerseeker GEM ( hoping to sell this today?) but it's not something I would return too, favouring the  easier to use and setup,  Dobsonian mount.
Both designs work well,   I just feel the Dobsonian method is quicker,  but side-by-side our scopes would see the same, therefore, knowing what I have,  your in for a treat. Dark skies ahead. 

 

ps. * It sold *

The EQ mount seems easier to track things across the sky. I suppose both mounts have their pros and cons. I can't seem to find a picture of either the scope or mount online for some reason. Does it have another name?

 

[CraigT82]

Congrats! an 8" F6 newtonian is a powerful and versatile instrument, and will show plenty of planetary and lunar detail.

Is the scope a used one?  If so try searching for 'Orion 200mm f6 Europa'

[BiPolarGhost]

1 minute ago, CraigT82 said:

Congrats! an 8" F6 newtonian is a powerful and versatile instrument, and will show plenty of planetary and lunar detail.

Is the scope a used one?  If so try searching for 'Orion 200mm f6 Europa'

Ive found this

http://uk.telescope.com/catalog/product.jsp?productId=109926&utm_source=google&utm_medium=comparisonshopping&utm_campaign=UK-googlemerchant&gclid=Cj0KEQiAsf_BBRDMpoOHw4aSq4QBEiQAPm7DL4M7XPZCcWhUYO7_kuXSHriSiM-fvPIREFCvqrUCy04aAoQu8P8HAQ

 

Could that be it?

 

[Charic]

Not long enough and only f/4.9.
A chap on another forum was assured he had an Orion  Europa 8" f/6 only to find an f/4.4  sticker on the side of the primary mirror?
 

[CraigT82]

No that's an Orion USA scope.  The Orion Optics UK has sold 8" f6 newts as the Europa (older) and the VX8L (newer).  

[CraigT82]

It will most likely look like this...

 

 

[BiPolarGhost]

1 minute ago, CraigT82 said:

No that's an Orion USA scope.  The Orion Optics UK has sold 8" f6 newts as the Europa (older) and the VX8L (newer).  

The Europa is black online mine is white and online the VX8L is white but it has VX8L written on it, mine doesn't it just says Orion. 

[BiPolarGhost]

Just now, CraigT82 said:

It will most likely look like this...

 

 

The stand looks like that (I think) but my scope is white.