Advice on Orion Optics scope choice

[Linda]

Hi.

As mentioned in another thread, I want to buy second scope. At the moment I tend towards an Orion optics 8" Dobsonian.

This type of scopes comes in 2 variants: normal and long. These are the specs:

http://www.orionoptics.co.uk/VX/vxspecifications.html

Which one is better for me to buy? The normal size or the extra long. I am not going to use it for photography, so I don't need a fast scope. I'm also used to a scope with long focus length and can deal with that. Wouldn't it then be better to buy the long scope?

Someone wrote that you should be careful about the balance. The long scope uses the same mount as the normal size and the balance might be off.

I want to use it primarily for deep sky.

[faulksy]

both are great, if you can get the ultra grade optics. longer one as you put it f6 will be easyer on ep,s easyer to colimate and have a narrower fov.

shorter one f4.5 will give you a wider fov more compact for storage/transport, might have to use better eps.

hope that helps

[John]

I have an F/5.3 12" Orion Optics dobsonian (well the tube is Orion Optics anyway !). I'd probably go for the F/6 version of the 8" as well for the reasons that Mike states above. It's worth going for the best optical level that you can because Orion Optics are all about the mirrors. If you stick with the standard optics I reckon you might as well save some money and go for a Skywatcher 8" F/6.

 

[Linda]

Thanks, that was useful. I am considering Orion UK for the optics. And I'm not looking forward to collimating, so having an easier job is preferable. It's just that I'm going to store it in a small cabin. But that's why I am now considering the 8" rather than the 10". And maybe the height doesn't matter much.

 

For the Skywatcher alternative, are the GSO and the Bresser also useful alternatives? Or are they much lower quality than Skywatcher? I am planning to visit this store in Denmark next month, to see the size of Dobsonians in real life, and they have an 8" Bresser and a 10" GSO on sale: http://www.kikkert-teleskophuset.dk/category/dobsonian-teleskoper-8/

I am just not convinced about the quality. The price is just very low and I guess you can't expect good optics for that price. Saving for an Orion might be better.

[Mark at Beaufort]

Hello Linda

I have the 8" Orion VX8 f4.5 with 1/6th mirror wave. All I can say is that it is light and  a great grab and go scope. On my first night of viewing I saw the edge on galaxy NGC891. I wrote the owners review in the UK Sky at Night magazine in November 2015. I don't have a problem with collimation but certainly the longer version would be easier and better on the Moon and Planets and kinder to eyepieces.

You won't regret this scope whichever version you buy.

 

[John]

24 minutes ago, Linda said:

Thanks, that was useful. I am considering Orion UK for the optics. And I'm not looking forward to collimating, so having an easier job is preferable. It's just that I'm going to store it in a small cabin. But that's why I am now considering the 8" rather than the 10". And maybe the height doesn't matter much.

 

For the Skywatcher alternative, are the GSO and the Bresser also useful alternatives? Or are they much lower quality than Skywatcher? I am planning to visit this store in Denmark next month, to see the size of Dobsonians in real life, and they have an 8" Bresser and a 10" GSO on sale: http://www.kikkert-teleskophuset.dk/category/dobsonian-teleskoper-8/

I am just not convinced about the quality. The price is just very low and I guess you can't expect good optics for that price. Saving for an Orion might be better.

I'd say that the Skywatcher and GSO optical quality is likely to be very similar. I don't know about the Bresser one because it's relatively new - it might have GSO optics in as well ?.

For the prices you can get them for, there is nothing wrong with these Chinese / Taiwanese produced scopes. I've owned both Skywatcher and GSO optics and found them pretty good. In my examples I felt that the Skywatcher mirrors might have been slightly better than the GSO ones but thats just my experiance from a limited range of samples.

You won't find Orion Optics mirrors streets ahead of the Skywatcher / GSO's from my experience. I think my Orion Optics 12" has a slight advantage in handling very high magnifications (when the seeing allows) and I put that down to it's reasonably good figuring and coating. On deep sky objects I'd suspect little or no difference.

I bought my 12" F/5.3 optical tube on the used market for around 1/3rd of the price that it would cost new and I don't think I'd pay the new prices for an Orion Optics scope in all honesty. I've also owned a 10" F/4.8 Orion Optics and I'd say the same about that. They can be an awkward company to deal with as well !

 

 

[Linda]

Hm, I see the Skywatcher for a reasonable price as well, at another store. So, if the difference in quality isn't very noticeable at normal use, then maybe a Skywatcher or GSO will be good enough.

Buying second hand here in Norway is a challenge, as the only used scopes for sale are the toy store refractors and some reflectors on wobbly mounts.

[Piero]

I hope not to hurt anybody's feeling so, please read this as my personal opinion and nothing else.

The length of a OOVX8L is about the same of a SW200 F6.. As far as weight concerns, I doubt you will struggle lifting two components of 10kg each, unless you have serious back issues. For the OOVX8, you will need very good EPs and a decent mount too, which add extra costs. 

From my point of view, unless one is really keen on planetary observation and can often benefit from very good / excellent seeing conditions (for which a OOVX8 / OOVX8L can make sense due to their optics), I believe the benefit from choosing an OOVX starts from a 10".

From +10" the weight is considerably lighter than the equivalent Skywatcher ones which is important for portability. On the other hand, the larger, the less tested commercial telescopes are, simply because there are less people buying them. Therefore, again to me, at +12" if the choice is towards a solid tube dobson, I would go for OOVX for sure.

A SW8 F6 can be a very good (long) introduction to this hobby for a modest cost (modest considering the normal prices for astronomical equipment). It is still a very powerful telescope and I am pretty sure you will enjoy it a lot. 

[Mark at Beaufort]

To add to John's comments. I have had a 10" Skywatcher Flextube Dob which gave very good views of DSOs. I now have a 12" Revelation Dob - 6 weeks (made by GSO I think) and I have had excellent views of Jupiter (transit) and the Moon (Armstrong/Aldrin/Collins craters) plus seeing Sirius Pup. So scopes made by Skywatcher/GSO can be very good.

[dweller25]

Hello Linda - I have that very scope - the OO 8" F/6 VX Dobsonian and it's excellent.

I have a bad back and it is much lighter and easier to move than the Skywatcher 8" F/6

I had a very good and a very poor Skywatcher 8" F/6 - so it's a bit of a lottery but with Orion Optics you can choose what grade of optics you would like.

There are no balance issues with the scope as the OTA can be rotated and moved up or down in the supplied rings - unlike the Skywatcher.

The long version has a smaller secondary so offers better planetary contrast and is easier to collimate then the short version.

 

[Scooot]

Hi Linda,

When I was deciding which one to buy OO said they'd rate the f6 5 out of 5 on planets and 4 out of 5 on everything else and the opposite on the f4.8, so I went for the short one as I expected to spend more time on DSO's. I'm very pleased I did, I think it's excellent on planets as well as the deep sky stuff but I did upgrade to top grade optics. Either way I'm sure they're both great scopes. 

Their mount makes them very portable and the storage footprint is very small. I can't imagine me ever selling mine. Good luck with whatever you decide

[Linda]

2 hours ago, Piero said:

A SW8 F6 can be a very good (long) introduction to this hobby for a modest cost (modest considering the normal prices for astronomical equipment). It is still a very powerful telescope and I am pretty sure you will enjoy it a lot. 

I don't need an introduction any more, because I already have used a 5" Mak for half a year. But I want a second scope that shows a bit more dark sky and I want to store it primarily at our cabin in dark land. The cabin is small, the shed is full, so the scope should not be enormous. A dobson is already very big, but therefore I think a 8" might be big enough.

So now the choice is between the OO 8" Long version or a skywatcher. I have been reading a bit more about collimation and I think a higher F-ratio is better for me than a low number.

[faulksy]

if your choice is down to storage and weight/portability the orion optics is a lot smaller and lighter. but as john says if your not going for the best optics then the sw will be fine but heavyer and bigger. hope this helps

[John]

The points made about weight are very valid. Having owned a 12" Meade Lightbridge, my current 12" Orion Optics based dob is far lighter and easier to move around.

 

[Linda]

I have looked at what it costs to buy an Orion UK 8" with very good quality optics. But it is 3x the price of a Skywatcher. And I see very good reviews for the Skywatcher 8", also saying that 8" is a little less vulnerable for lower quality than bigger scopes, as also mentioned above.

So I am now seriously thinking about the Skyliner 8". And for the price of the OO I can easily buy two, to have one at the cabin and at home.  But let's start with one.

[Piero]

1 hour ago, Linda said:

I don't need an introduction any more, because I already have used a 5" Mak for half a year.

I guess we misunderstood each other about the "introduction" threshold. So far I have seen/spotted about 250 targets with my 60mm and I reckon there are at least another 250 to catch within the limits of this telescope and my current sky conditions. Despite the arguable title of Advanced Member which is associated to the number of posts and not to the actual skills one owns, I still consider myself in a beginning phase of this hobby. I say this not just for the low number of viewed targets, but for the overall lack of knowledge about the many targets existing out there, their features, and how to observe them. To me this experience is achieved with years of dedication, observation, and also a good dose of modesty.  

A 8" under a good sky can show thousands of targets and will outperform your 5". Take a 14" or a 16" under a dark sky and this will considerably outperform an 8", although personally I think one should consider such large apertures after maturing considerable experience and having clearly understood what the main interests are. An 8" F6 is a wonderful all-around telescope, cheap, easy to maintain and to use, good for planets and for a good introduction on DSO under good skies. Many people are happy with it for all their lives, others decide to add a larger Dobson for more serious DSO hunting or a refractor for detailed planetary observation / double stars. An 8" nicely sits in between and is still reasonably portable without much effort.

[Linda]

3 minutes ago, Piero said:

An 8" nicely sits in between and is still reasonably portable without much effort.

I don't consider myself experienced, I am still a beginner. But I have worked myself through the introduction to the hobby and I know now that I want to focus more on deep sky. I can use my current scope on planets.

As I am now looking for a second scope that I will primarily use under dark skies near our cabin. I think 8" will be sufficient and it will show a lot. Even my current 5" scope shows a great deal in there. But especially the EQ3 mount takes up a lot of space in the already full car. Having a nice scope there at the cabin, specifically for deep sky is convenient. And I might see more details in some of the DSOs than I do with the 5". Then I keep the 5" for at home and for other trips elsewhere.

[scarp15]

I think that you are quite right when you say, 8" will be sufficient and it will show you quite a lot. This level of aperture is very agreeable and if you do go ahead with an Orion Optics Uk 8" F6 Dobsonian, then you will not be disappointed, not least for all the reasons you have stated. If placing an order do consider the 1/10pv wave mirrors and include the variable friction brake and upgrade, for a small extra cost, to the angled finder scope. I also have a Rigel Quikfinder on mine and the combination works really well.

Motions are smooth, balance is very good, particularly as you can easily hand adjust the tube in the rings, which is also good for selecting the most desirable angle for positioning the focuser. The scope holds its collimation really well and even if out a fraction, F6 will make not compromise the view. Allow a couple of months for the order to built prior to dispatch.

 

[CraigT82]

Hi Linda,  regarding the skyline...have a look at this:

http://neilenglish.net/test-diving-the-sywatcher-skyliner200p/

It's a long blog post but well worth reading seeing as you're considering an 8" f6 newt.

[Linda]

9 minutes ago, CraigT82 said:

Hi Linda,  regarding the skyline...have a look at this:

http://neilenglish.net/test-diving-the-sywatcher-skyliner200p/

It's a long blog post but well worth reading seeing as you're considering an 8" f6 newt.

I read that this afternoon. Yes, that was really promising and that makes me consider the Skyliner above the OO for 1/3 of the price. 

[John]

10 minutes ago, Linda said:

I read that this afternoon. Yes, that was really promising and that makes me consider the Skyliner above the OO for 1/3 of the price. 

As I said, I'd never pay the retail price for an OO scope. On the used market they are great value though.

 

[jam1e1]

Bought an OO VX12 F4 pv1/10 at Astrofest - really good price, not sure if would have bought at full retail - though the offer was too good to miss out on - being delivered next month  I went for F4 due to shorter length so EP position better, also lighter and more portable

[Jimtheslim]

On 17 March 2016 at 17:42, CraigT82 said:

Hi Linda,  regarding the skyline...have a look at this:

http://neilenglish.net/test-diving-the-sywatcher-skyliner200p/

It's a long blog post but well worth reading seeing as you're considering an 8" f6 newt.

Thanks for posting a link to this. Having been about ready to buy a 250 I am now seriously considering the 200. I can't get past the old advice of buying as much aperture as you can afford. Reading this has got me pretty stoked up to spend some money though!

[Linda]

After thinking hard and discussing it at home, I will do the following. I'll check what it costs to buy a Skywatcher at the German Teleskop Spezialisten, who check the scopes before selling them and filter out the bad quality mirror ones. This ahould still be cheaper than buying an OO one. And I'll check what it costs to buy a good quality mirror and the other stuff you need to build your own telescope. If it pays off to DIY, I'll try to make a Dobson this summer, with the help of my hubby. He knew nothing about telescopes, but I have explained a lot and he thinks making a dob with closed tube does not look too difficult.

[ollypenrice]

You wouldn't want to buy a telescope from a manufacturer with a severe attitude problem - or I wouldn't - which is why I won't be doing so.

Olly