Is that it ? Have I reach my limits - Saturn

[Vox45]

So, the perfect night in a long long while was upon me at the end of march:

- seeing for my location was '4' according to MeteoBlue

- I just got a decent 3x Barlow (Bresser SA)

- I finally got good tracking: target would stay on sharpcap's crosshair for the whole capture duration (around 3 minutes)

- I had sharp focus on Spica using a bahtinov mask

- I used an UV/IR Baader filter on my webcam

I loaded this profile to capture 3000 frames at 10fps

CameraType:Philips SPC 900NC PC

Frame Divisor=1

Resolution=640x480

Frame Rate (fps)=10.00

Colour Space=YUY2

Exposure=-4

Brightness=56

Contrast=32

Saturation=72

Gamma=0

ColorEnable=255

BacklightCompensation=0

Gain=60

... time to try my luck at Saturn for the second time !

After processing in PIPP/AS!2/Registrax the resulting image was disapointing, not a lot of details.

Any tips to improve my results or is this the limit of my setup ? I am sure I've seen better results with smaller scope and same type of webcam. Is Saturn too low on the horizon (20° for me) to get more details ? We had an episod of smog here, could this affect the resolution of details ?

I am open to all suggestions and advices

[Stu]

Saturn is very low from our latitudes currently. I'm afraid it will be a good few years before it is better placed.

Around the time I started observing (15 ish years ago), it was riding high in the sky, and actually very near Jupiter. Detail was much better then visually but the same applies to imaging I'm sure, the higher the better

[Sky King]

No you haven't reached your limits.

I also have a SPC 900NC and this is what I got on my first time out last August with Saturn, using a 3X barlow. 

Tweaking my image with PIPP, Registax and Adobe Photoshop and still know I can do better.

I see you have a Celestron C6...definately capeable of better, but the conditions have to be just right.

I'm hope to be taking more pics of Saturn with my set up in the next few weeks as the weather warms and time allows.

Will post the results.

[JamesF]

Saturn isn't at opposition until late May, so despite its low altitude it should improve over the next six weeks or so.

James

[Vox45]

No you haven't reached your limits.

I also have a SPC 900NC and this is what I got on my first time out last August with Saturn, using a 3X barlow. 

Tweaking my image with PIPP, Registax and Adobe Photoshop and still know I can do better.

I see you have a Celestron C6...definately capeable of better, but the conditions have to be just right.

I'm hope to be taking more pics of Saturn with my set up in the next few weeks as the weather warms and time allows.

Will post the results.

Ok I see that I can improve ! it gives me hope

Saturn, at this altitude, is just 1° over an appartement building rooftop in my line of sight... so I think the next step for me is to go to a site where I can image over an open field, not  over rooftops and a brick wall like I do right now.

That should improve the seeing... maybe help with the details (?)

[catman161]

Another thing that may improve your results is focusing by eye on the planet itself. I have tried many options including using Bhat masks on stars and I had terrible results using the mask and then slewing to the planet.

A while back me and some friends had Damian peach over to teach the 4 of us for the day and his recommendation for focusing was (as he says in his new dvd) a good solid focuser, a Motorfocus setup and sitting here for long periods of time and constantly adjusting the focus and waitin for the clear patches of seeing, then adjusting again and then repeating that until you know you've got it bang on. This is what I do and I have had much better results than trying to focus with a mask on a star. Granted it takes ages, over an hour sometimes before you can hit "capture" but it's worth it for the end result HTH

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[Wikiastro]

If the apartment building is giving off any heat, won't the drastically affect seeing?

[Moonshane]

That's the way I focus for visual too at higher magnifications. Once it is right, leave it alone!

[cgarry]

That's the way I focus for visual too at higher magnifications. Once it is right, leave it alone!

The complete opposite of what I do while imaging!  Like catman161 I focus on the planet and re-focus often, though I never change anything while actually capturing.  Oh, and Bahtinov masks are simply not accurate enough for planetary imaging in my experience.

Cheers,

Chris

[Vox45]

Another thing that may improve your results is focusing by eye on the planet itself. I have tried many options including using Bhat masks on stars and I had terrible results using the mask and then slewing to the planet.

A while back me and some friends had Damian peach over to teach the 4 of us for the day and his recommendation for focusing was (as he says in his new dvd) a good solid focuser, a Motorfocus setup and sitting here for long periods of time and constantly adjusting the focus and waitin for the clear patches of seeing, then adjusting again and then repeating that until you know you've got it bang on. This is what I do and I have had much better results than trying to focus with a mask on a star. Granted it takes ages, over an hour sometimes before you can hit "capture" but it's worth it for the end result HTH

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I always had a doubt about that too. I knew that the focus was perfect on the star using the mask but it seemed off on the planet to the naked eye. I trusted the mask as it is very hard to focus on a computer screen.

As a precaution I activated the 'focus' utility in Sharpcap and it looked ok but I am not sure if the software solution is reliable. I will dig into this.

I do have a Motorfocus but its the manual kind (not driven by a software I mean) but I'll try your solution as best as I can

If the apartment building is giving off any heat, won't the drastically affect seeing?

My educated guess would be that it would... and then that would also affect the focusing part discussed above, making it harder. I think that if I want to achieve better results, I need to solve the turbulence issue. At least the OTA part is taken care of  because I set it up in the evening, go to bed and come back at around 4:30 to start capturing so there is plenty of time for the OTA to cool down.

[catman161]

I always had a doubt about that too. I knew that the focus was perfect on the star using the mask but it seemed off on the planet to the naked eye. I trusted the mask as it is very hard to focus on a computer screen.

As a precaution I activated the 'focus' utility in Sharpcap and it looked ok but I am not sure if the software solution is reliable. I will dig into this.

I do have a Motorfocus but its the manual kind (not driven by a software I mean) but I'll try your solution as best as I can

My educated guess would be that it would... and then that would also affect the focusing part discussed above, making it harder. I think that if I want to achieve better results, I need to solve the turbulence issue. At least the OTA part is taken care of because I set it up in the evening, go to bed and come back at around 4:30 to start capturing so there is plenty of time for the OTA to cool down.

It's taken me three years to learn how to focus like that but the proof is in the resultant images when processed. In the real time moment of waiting and watching you catch split second glimpses of the clear seeing and it's then that you have to see the disc and think "in or out" so you make a tiny adjustment then wait another 15 minutes to see if you made the focus better or worse

As for the focus tool in Sharpcap I don't really bother with it and just trust my eye, definitely steer clear of Bhat masks for planetary AP though.

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[Space Cowboy]

A mono camera makes a big difference on Saturn at this low elevation.

[catman161]

A mono camera makes a big difference on Saturn at this low elevation.

Good point, also an atmospheric dispersion corrector helps too [emoji106]

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[Vox45]

As I use the stock focuser, I guess I need to break the piggy bank for either this or, even better I would guess, this one

[catman161]

If you're going to upgrade the focuser I'd recommend doing it right first time and going for either this http://www.firstlightoptics.com/starlight-instruments-feather-touch-2inch-crayford-focusers/feathertouch-2-inch-crayford-focuser-sct.html or one of these http://www.firstlightoptics.com/moonlite-focusers/moonlite-cs-dual-rate-sct-crayford-focuser-with-standard-2-inch-thread.html. Both have great options for motorising and are absolutely rock solid. I currently use the starlight feather touch but used to use the moonlight on a previous scope. Quality instruments the both of them.

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[Vox45]

If you're going to upgrade the focuser I'd recommend doing it right first time and going for either this http://www.firstlightoptics.com/starlight-instruments-feather-touch-2inch-crayford-focusers/feathertouch-2-inch-crayford-focuser-sct.html or one of these http://www.firstlightoptics.com/moonlite-focusers/moonlite-cs-dual-rate-sct-crayford-focuser-with-standard-2-inch-thread.html. Both have great options for motorising and are absolutely rock solid. I currently use the starlight feather touch but used to use the moonlight on a previous scope. Quality instruments the both of them.

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I'm reading other threads where those focusers are also mentionned, I understand that those are top of the line and I'll be looking into this. I Just need to make some arrangement on selling one or two body parts first.

I hear good things about the Baader ones, so that could be a good "plan B" 

[catman161]

Yep Baader steel track are very good too [emoji106]

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[Kokatha man]

...a couple of short responses to your questions, some of which others might have addressed above - "no" you haven't reached the limits of your possibilities - you are up against it re elevation but I'm sure you can get better...

Forget the expensive focusers if you are financially constrained (aren't we all? ) & definitely forget about that Starlight job that turns your primary mirror adjuster knob into some poor version of an after-market Crayford, along with other (dubious imho!) claims as to its' efficacy...

A cheap Crayford-style focuser with a cheap battery operated motor drive unit attached (in Oz these motor-drives retail for around $100 new, I'm sure they must be available in the UK, this will improve your focusing capabilities no end) also consider second-hand as a good option for a lot of stuff if you trust the seller..."Accufocus" from Orion is the one I used back in my colour camera days - it took not much more than a drill, a pair of pliers & a strip of hobbyist's aluminium to attach it to a cheap GSO Crayford-style focuser, sometimes it will just bolt straight on.

Always focus on the planet's disk as others like Chris etc have said...pray for good seeing  & lurk around the scope on any night that is clear making sure it is cooled down & you do a collimation on a star before capturing any video - remember, forecasts are notoriously inaccurate re seeing so make sure you are at the scope & ready when the planet culminates on those clear nights..!

[Vox45]

...a couple of short responses to your questions, some of which others might have addressed above - "no" you haven't reached the limits of your possibilities - you are up against it re elevation but I'm sure you can get better...

Forget the expensive focusers if you are financially constrained (aren't we all? ) & definitely forget about that Starlight job that turns your primary mirror adjuster knob into some poor version of an after-market Crayford, along with other (dubious imho!) claims as to its' efficacy...

A cheap Crayford-style focuser with a cheap battery operated motor drive unit attached (in Oz these motor-drives retail for around $100 new, I'm sure they must be available in the UK, this will improve your focusing capabilities no end) also consider second-hand as a good option for a lot of stuff if you trust the seller..."Accufocus" from Orion is the one I used back in my colour camera days - it took not much more than a drill, a pair of pliers & a strip of hobbyist's aluminium to attach it to a cheap GSO Crayford-style focuser, sometimes it will just bolt straight on.

Always focus on the planet's disk as others like Chris etc have said...pray for good seeing  & lurk around the scope on any night that is clear making sure it is cooled down & you do a collimation on a star before capturing any video - remember, forecasts are notoriously inaccurate re seeing so make sure you are at the scope & ready when the planet culminates on those clear nights..!

Good advices ! I will take all your answers in consideration and try again.

It cannot be a bad move to get a better focuser, the Baader is more in my price range for now. I did drool over the feather touch though ! Maybe Mother xmas will be generous this year