Delos 12mm

[Charic]

Does anyone own both?   the Tele Vue Delos 12mm and 6mm.

As a side by side test, I'm interested to hear if there is any  issue alone, with just the 12mm  Barlowed ?

[Stu]

Hi Charic

A lot of that depends on the quality of the barlow. With a 2x PowerMate the 12mm would be fine I'm sure. I've done the same with various Ethos' and the results are excellent

With an average quality barlow though things would be different

[Charic]

......thanks. I forgot about the Powermate. No messing with the eye relief!

I'm about to have a new prescription for my eyes this Month, expecting  little change, but things are not getting better?

Far/Near sighted can be corrected at the focuser, but  I think there are other issues? I will question the expert as to what's happening with my eyes and how best to correct  for/when at the telescope?

As good as(to date)my present eyepieces are for this telescope, maybe I can improve something with a little optical tweaking? Maybe even just adopting the use of my less dominant eye, as its not as bad as my right eye.

[Stu]

Yes, with a barlow the eye relief on a Delos may well be pushed out uncomfortably far, although they do have good adjustable eye guards. If I were paying for Delos quality, I would want a Powermate to match it!

[Qualia]

Aye, just to echo what Stu says, if you're into getting a Barlow, get the best one available. Low quality Barlows will inevitably dim and/or distort the view.

The hypothetical bee's knees Barlow ought to vanish from the optical-pathway and seemingly become one with the eyepiece. When it does this the results are excellent. I often use a TV Barlow on the 14mm and 10mm Delos and the 9mm B.G.Ortho and to my eye have nothing to complain about. The results are superb.

I've never used a Powermate, but from reading what some of the most experienced visual observer on SGL have said, this will also give suberb results in th superlative.

[Pig]

I would like to confirm Rob & Stu's points above... I owned all 3 and the 12mm Barlowed was not the same as the 6mm on its own. The barlow and 12mm combined were also quite tall :-) mind you so is the powermate combination, more so I would think and quite heavy.

[Stu]

Something like a Baader VIP barlow is worth looking at, it is possible to arrange so a fair amount of the length goes into the focus tube or diagonal so there is less length. Quality very good too

[Charic]

Many thanks.

I never wanted to spend loads on EP's, due to my eyesights slow, but  deteriorating condition?

I have seen Jupiter once,  perfect  conditions, in all its glory with a crystal sharp shadow from Io on the Planets surface, but still have difficulty in seeing the GRS,  main problem is my own eyes, their at fault, its an age thing? The more I read about refractive errors the more I'm confused. I'm presently trying to locate my last prescription. to get a better understanding  of what was,  in preparation for what's  next?  and then ask the expert what course of action I need to take. I'd hate to give up on astronomy. 

I don't like wearing glasses with binoculars or at the telescope, so wishing to avoid this issue, I have to wear them for driving.  If I must wear them  to get better image details, then I'll have to adjust. The only other issue is to maybe get a bigger scope, but this alone may not cure the situation. If I can keep the 8", then so much the better. 

[Stu]

It's tricky isn't it, there are so many variables that have to be aligned to get a great view.

An 8" should give lovely sharp images of Jupiter if collimated and cooled correctly. GRS should not be a problem.

Vision is obviously something else, but if you have had one good view then surely your eyes are up to it?

My eyes are very different. I am right handed but left eye dominant. The planetary views I get through my right eye are horrid, bright, but almost grainy and lacking definition. With my left eye, the views are less vivid but have far better resolution and I see lovely detail. I hate to say but if both eyes were like my right then I probably would have given up planetary observing long ago!

Keep at it and hopefully you will find a combination which works

[Luke]

I find the Delos barlows very well. I have the 6 and 12 but don't think I compared and no prospect of doing so soon. I have used Tele Vue 2x Barlow and 2.5x PowerMate with various Delos. Lots of people rate the PowerMate and they must have a reason for that but I find myself very happy with the Barlow, I must be missing something. Even for solar and lunar imaging I don't prefer the Power-mate???

[alan potts]

The 12mm Powermated fine but that is not a Barlow, I have both but never compared them.

Alan

[Charic]

....found it  dated 2012, but I'm sure I've had another eye test since then?

R  Sph - 1.75  Cyl - 1.0

L   Sph - -0.25 Cyl -.050

So my right eye  needed  -1.75 dioptre correction for myopia and -1.0 astigmatism. The left shows less correction, still looking for the latest statement. 

*edit.. a quick call confirms that was my last statement! 

[Piero]

Just another comment. I would also consider size+weight of a 12Delos+Barlow, and check that this will not be an issue for you. 

[Moonshane]

I agree that the main issue for me when using a barlow/powermate plus a large heavy eyepiece is the size and length of the thing. I made a comparison along these lines a while ago :

13mm ethos/1.6x 2" barlow / paracorr

9mm BGO / paracorr

I have tried a few barlows and this issue always made me sell them, not the optical quality which was always fine.

another option is buy used and sell at roughly the same price. yet another, buy a used 12mm Delos and a used 6mm Radian or other good quality unit.

[Charic]

I do like more than one EP as you can see from my signature, even my DSLR  Nikkors are all prime lenses. I'm not sure  I need a full set of Tele Vue when the time comes. Just the basic High-Med-Low, so the  Delos and a Panoptic would suffice.

I'm already  settled with  the Delos as it comprises the 6,8,12mm EPs that I could possibly purchase, as and when?

This is still some way off, but nice to have the theory out of the way, before my next exam, then take issue from that date.

[Dude_with_the_tube]

think of your eye pieces as investment Charic.Good quality eye pieces will suit ANY scope,the one you have and many other you will have through out the time of this hobby,where the budget ones will only suit one particular scope and when you do decide to go different direction or different scope,you might be in for the ride, as ALL of your equipment has to go before you can actually move into the new area.Yes they can be expensive,but you dont need to buy them all at once.Buy when funds allow.All those planets,nebulae and galaxies will still be there when you are done with your equipment.Been there done that and not only once!As I am a planetary observer due to light pollution and luck of time to go out to very dark areas,it has taken me a few years to get equipment i wanted,some of them are exotic and some are the ones what people havent looked through and have costed me a deal of money and time.

With Televue you are playing safe as these will keep they value fairly good and can always be sold if needed with very little loss.Also Televue do have so called Dioptrix what can be added to they eye pieces so you dont need glasses when using them.

Good luck with your choice and clear skies.

[Piero]

I agree that the main issue for me when using a barlow/powermate plus a large heavy eyepiece is the size and length of the thing. I made a comparison along these lines a while ago :

13mm ethos/1.6x 2" barlow / paracorr

another option is buy used and sell at roughly the same price. yet another, buy a used 12mm Delos and a used 6mm Radian or other good quality unit.

I agree with Shane: 12 Delos and 6 Radian. All second hand.

@Moonshane:  WOW!! I wouldn't gable on whether my tv60 is heavier and longer than your combined ethos+barlow+paracorr !

[Piero]

think of your eye pieces as investment Charic.Good quality eye pieces will suit ANY scope,the one you have and many other you will have through out the time of this hobby,where the budget ones will only suit one particular scope and when you do decide to go different direction or different scope,you might be in for the ride, as ALL of your equipment has to go before you can actually move into the new area.Yes they can be expensive,but you dont need to buy them all at once.Buy when funds allow.All those planets,nebulae and galaxies will still be there when you are done with your equipment.Been there done that and not only once!As I am a planetary observer due to light pollution and luck of time to go out to very dark areas,it has taken me a few years to get equipment i wanted,some of them are exotic and some are the ones what people havent looked through and have costed me a deal of money and time.

With Televue you are playing safe as these will keep they value fairly good and can always be sold if needed with very little loss.Also Televue do have so called Dioptrix what can be added to they eye pieces so you dont need glasses when using them.

Good luck with your choice and clear skies.

Whether is undoubtedly true that good/excellent eyepieces can 'theoretically' work well on most or even ANY scope, this does not mean that we can make use of every eyepiece on most / ANY scope, as it depends 

on the telescope focal length. 

I guess this is the reason why most of us, having more than 1 telescope, end up having tons of eyepieces. 

Having said this, I am too a Tele Vue aficionado, and I would always go for one of them, possibly second hand. Just like them and they just work in the way I want. 

[Charic]

I  have funds to buy Tele Vue, I just chose not to at the time, thinking that my eyes, and ultimately, the scope was not that great a scope,  back then,   to warrant the dearer premium eyepieces!  ( I was wrong about the scope ! )  and the fact that there are cheaper eyepieces that work just as well. But the longer your into this hobby, the more you learn and acquire, and my thoughts at present are on the Mk1 eyeballs.

Money  always  leaves faster than it arrives these days, which makes me  tighter than a ducks rear when it comes to parting with it!  My advisor's know how  spend it? 

I'm  happy with my system as it stands, although  I would like a larger image from the eyepieces, a bigger aperture may help,  possibly some better corrected eyepieces for the  wider views for a non tracking system, and If I do upgrade the scope, I can't see me getting anything else than a 12" or in that direction? Another reason for having newer eyepieces that work down to f/4 maybe?

As we age, our eyes become tired, and fail us to a point. If I can make  better use of either my left eye, or right eye with a contact lens or some up-to-date fresh prescriptions and the image improves and I see the GRS then this system remains, otherwise, a bigger aperture to help with the detail, and newer corrected eyepieces to match the newer telescope?

[Charic]

R  Sph - 1.75  Cyl - 1.0

L   Sph - -0.25 Cyl -.050

I knew I was right? should have gone to 'somwhere' else maybe! 

05/2014 = 

R   Sph  -1.50 Cyl  -1.00

L   Sph  - 0.50 Cyl -0.50

Although the 'R' shows some improvement,  'L' is getting slightly worse, but by no means too serious just yet!

I've cloud cover predicted for the next 7 days( nothing new here then ) so wont be setting up soon,  but about two weeks ago, out  on an evening job, I noticed that I could see more Stars with glasses on  looking at the sky, but things  also looked just as good through the binoculars without glasses, but then uncomfortable viewing with glasses through the binoculars, as they strike the field lens housing.  Perhaps I just need to practice/try harder in using the glasses to see if there is  any more detail to the pupils. I wear varifocals, is this an issue for anyone? the divide between far and near correction.  I`d like to keep this system, as its complete and portable.

[Charic]

............So much for the heavy cloud cover predictions? the conditions here have been good. I have managed to see the GRS and so cleanly, so it must be the conditions, and not just my old man eyes!

I tried the Plossl's,  the BSTs and the WO SPL. The best EP tonight was clearly the 15mm BST(Barlowed) by just using the lens cell rather than the whole extension tube.  I could even see the GRS with the 5mm BST (no Barlow)  but the detail was failing, and testing between both eyes proved interesting too. Its awkward trying to use my  less dominant eye, and hopeless with glasses on, just not comfortable, however both the left and right eye gave good results (Possibly slightly cleaner with the left eye?) but needs more practice with the left eye! 

A good result tonight, but must get some sleep now, for an early start.

[Avocette]

After a couple of years of looking through binoculars and telescopes in the dark, I do regret not starting this earlier when I had younger eyes. However that's not not going to put me off - whereas the weather, now that's different. The two 'vision defects' I'm most aware of are 'floaters' in both eyes, and astigmatism in my right dominant eye. In developing my observing skills, I find I'm gradually learning to identify and separate the effects that are influencing the viewing at a particular moment in a typical session. It is only the very occasional evening of excellent transparency and lack of turbulence, that stops me doubting my eyes, eyepieces and telescope optics and state of collimation adjustments. In these two years I remember only a very few nights of that quality, and that explains why I've gone through five telescopes in my search for much needed improvements. My present preference is often for binoviewers in my 12" Dob (for brightness) observing the Moon and planets so allowing my brain to filter out the optical aberrations of my eyes. I am starting to understand that a long single-eyed viewing session with my Mak on a motorised mount allows my visual memory to integrate out through the moments of atmospheric clarity and random optical aberrations of my telescope/eye combination, and I'm enjoying the learning process.

All my kit has been bought Nth hand so the costs have been well contained and the efforts of cleaning and adjusting have occupied me whilst waiting for clear skies. However, I've yet to look through any TeleVue glass.....

[Charic]

..........Vision is obviously something else, but if you have had one good view then surely your eyes are up to it?...........

....I'm still blaming my vision tonight after testing 4x 6mm EPs,  and there appears to be some difference between the two eyes, so maybe I'd  better start  using the better, but less dominant eye from now on, or better still, go to a dark site to properly test these EP's without any distraction from surrounding lights? But this is a very quick and dirty test, no real study, just want to see if my Delos is suitable for my needs? The Moon is just behind the trees, and  there is so much street lighting, even with a blanket over my head, so hopefully, within about 20 mins ( cause I have to go to bed, ready for work!) I'm hoping to have a quick peek at the Moon.

I have just compared the 6mm Revelation Astro, the 6.4mm Meade, the WO SPL 6mm and the Delos.

I looked at the Pleiades tonight, and no diamonds on black velvet or any real wow moment to greet me, but  Its far easier looking through the Delos than the straws from the Plossl's? I'm unable to distinguish contrast differences tonight , but clearly the field of view is better from the Delos, putting the Delos first, followed by the SPL, and can't decide between the two Plossl's?

Edit:  waiting for the Moon to rise above the tree line, had to quit early due to the clouds

[Moonshane]

M45 is not a good target for 200x magnification in truth. I am unusual too in that I prefer the moon through plossls or Radian type fields compared with the Delos or Ethos fields.

[alan potts]

I tend to agree with Moonshane, M45 is best at a much lower power, I don't think it will be seen as a whole with any of my scopes with a 6mm Ethos and that is a fair bit wider. The 6mm Delos was always going to be a planetary eyepiece for me, and was. Depending on focal length of the scope globulas work very well at higher power. Unless there is a problem with it trust me it is a superb eyepiece.

Alan