Eyepiece for Flame Nebula?

[Paul73]

Morning everyone.

I'm getting mildly obsessed with getting as much detail as I can out of the Flame nebula. The brighter right lobe is visible (just), but I can't seem to get much more out of it. Obviously, it's new eyepiece time! I have UHC & OIII filters and, yes, point taken about properly dark sky (mine aren't too bad).

What eyepiece you'll you suggest for maximum contrast and an FOV narrow enought to cut out Alnitak's glare? My 68° offerings are too wide. I was thinking about something in the 20 to 22mm 50° range?

Thanks in advance.

Paul

[ronin]

TV plossl comes to mind, they do a 20mm.

Usually contrast is good with them.

Trouble is most others are wider and with more glass you can lose the contrast aspect.

I have no idea about Ortho's

[Dave In Vermont]

This is from the Prairie Astronomy folks:

NGC 2024 “FLAME NEBULA” (diffuse emission/reflection nebula in Orion)

(10 inch f/5.6, 52x)

DEEP-SKY: (3) Noticeably improves the contrast with the dark lane-like detail visible.

UHC: (3) Darker than in Deep-sky but with only a slight increase in contrast.

OIII: (2) Darker than in UHC, with less detail than in UHC.

H-BETA: (1) Darkest of all three filters, but the nebula remains visible with detail similar to that of OIII.

RECOMMENDATION FOR NGC 2024: DEEP-SKY/UHC (near tie).

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Not sure what EP would be best. But I'll be interested to hear.

Clear & Dark Skies,

Dave

[alan potts]

Paul,

I had a good look at the flame nebula the other night with the 12 inch and made up my mind the eyepiece I was using was alright but the scope could do with being half a meter larger .

Alan

[John]

I've only seen traces of the Flame so far but I think I'd use the same eyepieces that I would for the Horsehead Neb, that is a 20mm TV plossl or the 18mm Baader Classic ortho. I've yet to try my newly aqcuired DGM NBP filter on it. So far I've stuck with H-Beta or O-III.

[swamp thing]

I use a  20mm Nagler for the flame.  In fact I use a 20mm Nagler for most things.

[jetstream]

I find the Flame unusual in the sense that it is very large and can benefit from a widefield, but also benefits from the use of a narrow FOV EP too...

If a widefield is chosen, it must have low scatter or Alnitak will bury the one side of it and wash out the rest, too narrow a field and edge contrast is lost. I find my filters wreck this object, so I view it with a bit higher mag than would be optimum with a filter.

 A low scatter EP with no filter used, observed from dark skies will work great, showing the object as the "Tank Track" nebula with your scope.

The question is how much do you want to spend and how dark are your skies?

[jetstream]

I use a  20mm Nagler for the flame.  In fact I use a 20mm Nagler for most things.

I understand these are very good Steve.

[nicoscy]

The flame doesn't need a specific eyepiece or to keep Alnitak outside the FOV.

As with most nebulae, a large exit pupil helps. It is visible without filters with ease but a Filter does bring out other details.

I usually view it with an exit pupil of 4-6 mm

[jetstream]

Hi Nicos, I agree that no specific EP is needed and that Alnitak can be in the FOV to obs the Flame,from very dark transparent skies. It is actually a bright nebula and a good test of conditions.

Under less than great conditions I also have luck using the 4mm exit pupil, more specifically 3.5mm, and keeping Alnitak out of the FOV helps too I find. Unfortunately I have had no luck using filters on this object so far.

An EP chosen wisely can enhance the view of this object IMHO and it need not be expensive, my 18mmBCO works nicely.

[nicoscy]

You are right that it is a test of conditions. Always prior to attempting the Horsehead, I "consult" with the Flame to decide if the effort is worth it!

Well, as they say, dark skies are the most critical aspect of viewing the Flame or pretty much anything. I was able to see both lobes of the flame with my TS 50mm f6.6 ED refractor with relative ease from my preferred winter dark site. SQM readings typically above 21, so pretty dark I would say.

Lately I am getting into orthoscopics and I have had very good results with a Fujiyama 18mm and generally use 18mm and 21mm eyepieces on the Flame and Horsehead with excellent results.

[Paul73]

Thanks guys.

My sky about 5.5 to 5.75 NELM. So not a dark sky site but not exactly awash with LP either.

I find that light scatter from Alnitak does hinder the view. Could be that my MaxVision 68°S, which give the required exit pupil size, are not quite up to the job.

Spend wise, this won't be one of my most used eyepieces so I'm happy with up to about £80. I still have to fund the 17.3 Delos and ES 30mm 82° / 31mm Nagler.

I like the look of the BCO as the TV Plossl and Nagler options would be a bit tight in the eye relief dept for comfortable extended viewing (for me).

Paul

[swamp thing]

I understand these are very good Steve.

I like it

This focal length has me up nights Gerry.

My little 10" Dob loves the 20mm T5, it's just perfect in this scope. Lightweight, great contrast and razor sharp. I couldn't pick a better eyepiece for it.

The trouble is..........my little 10" Dob is hardly used these days, and gathers more dust than photons.

More trouble is...... I have another scope, and the alternatives just keep calling me softly. . The 22mm T4 with its lovely long eye relief and big eye lens is tempting me badly. The 21mm Ethos is nothing short of formidable in the big Dob.

Both of these are heavier than the T5 and would stress my baby 10" Dob though............but if I'm not using the little scope much...........

Much as I love the T5 its days could be numbered.

[Paul73]

22mm T4???? Lovely long eye relief??

Now we are talking!!! Er. And saving...

I'll probably still have a go on the BCO18mm. It won't take up much room in the eyepiece case.

Paul

[PeterW]

Oh the worries of having a choice of which eyepieces to choose! ;-)

I have one ep for each type of object... Birds, solar/lunar, deep sky....

Cheers

Peter

[mikeDnight]

I've use my 20mm Nagler for the flame nebula and that's with an Equinox 120 ED. Obviously this is a challenging object for such a small aperture scope and the transparency needs to be good, but it shows just how good the Nagler is for the task. I also used a UHC filter and observed from a dark site to be able to see this nebula. The star I placed outside the field of view but I have also used a match stick, painted black and placed over the field lens, to block unwanted star light. (Not my idea, I read it in a book somewhere). Getting above the haze of the town is essential for observing difficult DSOs. Every little helps!

Mike

[nicoscy]

Under dark skies the Flame is not a challenging target. I have easily seen it with my 50mm f6.6 refractor.

The amount of detail however increases rapidly with increase in aperture and the "tree" structure becomes clearly evident on a good dark night with decent aperture (80mm plus).

[michael.h.f.wilkinson]

+1 for the 22T4. That is the EP I use more than most others on nebulae. In my slower scope I would use the LVW42 or Nagler 31T5 Panzerfaust on the flame  (and intend to do so when I go to Austria). I can switfly flip different filters (UHC, O-III and H-beta) in and out of the optical path, so I will check which one works best (IF I succeed, that is)

[nicoscy]

Michael,

According to posts by David Knisely on CN, UHC works best and then O III. H Beta is to be avoided.

Personally testing it, I found marginal difference between UCH and O III. H Beta does not improve the view, but it doesn't make the flame disappear...

[michael.h.f.wilkinson]

Michael,

According to posts by David Knisely on CN, UHC works best and then O III. H Beta is to be avoided.

Personally testing it, I found marginal difference between UCH and O III. H Beta does not improve the view, but it doesn't make the flame disappear...

I saw that listing, but as I can swap filters around easily (the Denkmeier Filter-Switch diagonal is awesome for that) I will check it out myself. The H-beta was a clear winner on the HH last year, but I was so chuffed at getting it, I simply forgot to check out the flame. Fingers crossed for clear skies when I get there

[nicoscy]

I was "lucky enough" on first light with my dob in January 2014 to spot the Horsehead for the first time from *my own scope*.

Since then, what amazes me every time is my inability to accommodate the size of the HH. I always feel that I should be looking for something small whereas it is quite large. For whatever reason, this still happens and it takes me about 5 minutes to put the view in context and see the HH.

Best of luck with your trip! 

Back to the flame. The darned thing responds to good seeing a lot. Seeing makes a difference in truly seeing it as a burning tree / bush as opposed to a "garden variery" nebula.