Is my backyard too small?

[AustroNoob]

Hi everybody,

I'm curious what you think about my backyard. Im surrounded by high walls and trees and for me it looks like that I can't see anything below 60 degree

I don't own a scope so far and I'm not sure if it really make sense to spend a lot of money... for almost nothing.

On the attached panorama you see my backyard. Behind my positon is "my house", 10m high. In front of me is a concrete wall, 3m high and behind that wall are trees, 5-6m high. Trees are also on the left and right. You can also see that exactly in northern direction there is a really large tree and I fear I am not possible to see Polaris. Can't check this cause it is foggy since end of October :/

I read on SGL the prefered direction is West - South - East because a lot of DSO are there. If this is true this will disqualify my place here.

So what do you guys thing about this? Does it make sense or not? I know it's kinda stupid question but I lack the words to describe it better

Cheers from Vienna

Martin

PS: Sry for my english skills

[knobby]

You'll still see some stuff , the moon is nice and high , as is Andromeda and Jupiter late at night ... Maybe get some binoculars to try first

[swamp thing]

Hi Martin

First off your english is fine buddy

Is there any reason you can't observe from elsewhere by transporting a scope? I never observe from home due to horrendous LP. 

[nmoushon]

Even though the trees are kind of tall they look a good bit spread apart, so you could observe inbetween them. They also loose their leaves in the winter which really helps open up your views. Views through trees branches that have no leaves isnt as bad as you think since you are viewing a very small portion of the sky and more time than no you are looking inbetween branchs. Yes its not ideal but if its all you got then you learn to work around it. Also the reason ppl say south has the most DSOs is bc they are the ones that change the most with the seasons. Have W to NE views will still give you plenty of targets to look at. Also as Steve suggested, many ppl travel to darker/clearer skies to observe. LP is more of a limiting factor than the trees because even if the object is clear of the tree if the LP is bad enough you wont be able to see it anyways....or make it so faint it not worth hunting for in the first place.

[RichM63]

The simple answer is, if you can see the sky when you look up, then go for it.

PS your English is good.

[Northern Soul man]

Hi Martin and a very warm welcome to the SGL.  It might be better if you could probably wait for a clear night and just go out observing with just your eyes to start with.  If you have a computer you could download a FREE program called Stellarium - this basically gives you a picture of the night sky, you can set the planetarium to match your latitude and "switch on" the constellations (to look like stick figures) and go outside and compare what you can see on the screen.

You can then using the "galaxy" picture tab, set the number of Deep Sky Objects (DSO's) you can see from your location, just by using your naked eye, you can judge to see if it is worth you getting a telescope, from your location you will probably be able to see the constellations of Ursa Minor, Ursa Major, Cassiopeia, Perseus - have a look in these constellations for the deep sky objects and learn all the constellations you can see from you view starting with the brighter Messier objects, hold the mouse pointer over the objects - this will give you the names of them - you can then just put them into your search engine on the internet or just zoom into them in Stellarium.

As well as the DSO's you may be able to see the planet Venus when it is visible in your part of the sky, just "centre on" Venus in the program, this will show you when and how high the Planet will rise in the sky and at what time (Binoculars will show the Phases).

There are lots of Deep Sky Objects that will be visible in a pair of Binoculars (If you have any) and you can look at the different constellations through them to get a better picture of the night sky.

Even having trees and walls so high means that you can look above these - remember just below these are the worst parts of the sky - as this is where all the Light Pollution is and the worst part of the Atmosphere.  Where I observe in my back garden I have a 5 metre wall about 6 Metres in front of me and houses on 2 sides of the sky - I just get around this by waiting for the objects to clear the houses before I begin to observe them.

Keep us informed of your progress Martin and don't let this put you off Astronomy - there are always ways to get around this.

By the way your English is very good.

Paul.

[Sirius Starwatcher]

Hello Martin and welcome to SGL usually the higher you view the less turbulence you will get and will therefore get slightly clearer views of the sky. So if you have a clear view above you you will still be able to observe. I think I read somewhere that an elevation above 35 degrees is going to give you clearer seeing. Good luck Hope you manage it

[bomberbaz]

First how much are you really int this hobby as you seemed to  express a slight reservation from the outset? If its just the way you write it please ignore this comment (and your english is fine also)

If you are keen, is there no-one you knw or maybe a local club you can go to for some local advice to help you get some ideas.

oh and erm but are those trees not in your garden? Get a hand saw and some pruning shears for a start and already thats not a problem. (assuming you are able/allowed to do this).

Next a tripod mounted scope would afford that view extra degrees of viewing due to its higher mounting position.

Finally get something lightweight if you want to get a scope after all the other stuff, that way you can go and try somewhere with better horizons.

phew! draw breath after typing that lot, hehe 

[AustroNoob]

Maybe get some binoculars to try first

knobby, thx for the hint but I want the "real stuff" from the beginning

Is there any reason you can't observe from elsewhere by transporting a scope?

swamp thing, the reason is I have no car Makes no sense in a city like Vienna... I am living at the city border so light pollution is not sooo bad like in the city. But what can I say... I have zero experience. It would of course be cool to go somewhere else cause there is an observation point near Vienna where all the astro fans are going once a month (about 700m high).

Even though the trees are kind of tall they look a good bit spread apart, so you could observe inbetween them

nmoushon, yes thats true, no leaves in winter. Interesting that is not so bad. Noobmistake. Looking forward how this will affect my imaging.

The simple answer is, if you can see the sky when you look up, then go for it.

RichM63, normaly I do see the sky but sometimes it depends on how much beer... lets drop that...just kidding

...download a FREE program called Stellarium...

Northern Soul man, yes I have this one as well as Cartes du Ciel. Thank you very much for your efforts. I forgot to mention what I know despite that I am new to all of this. This should have saved you a lot of (writing) work. My mistake

At the end of this post I will write down what my plans are and how far my investigations are so far. And don't worry all your answers strengthen my astronomy plans (man that was a weired sentence   )

the higher you view the less turbulence you will get

Sirius, you are absolutely right. I read this somewhere but totally forgot...

 If its just the way you write it...

bomberbaz, I think it is. No reservation from my side. Just a lack of words.

We have an astronomy club here in Vienna. They meet once a month outside Vienna. But to be honest this is not my cup of tea. We have three professional observatorys here as well. Will visit them as soon as that fog has gone...

The trees are all in the neighbours garden... except one, I don't see a chance to cut them down cause the neighbour was not happy that this housing complex was built 10 years ago. Thats also the reason why I have this beautiful concrete wall right under my nose.

All right, first things first: Thank you very much for your effort, your hints and tips guys. I'm pretty sure that I will stay with this hobby. Here are my plans:

• Buy the scope and accessories –> Until begin of March 2015 cause of the solar eclipse I won’t miss
• Upgrade to Autoguiding –> Until Summer 2015
• Building a remote focuser –> Until Winter 2015
• Building a garden pier –>  Spring 2016
• Building some kind of RoRo To Go for garden pier –> Summer 2010

You think I'm optimistic? Yeah me too 

As mentioned before I have Stellarium and CdC installed and playing around with it. It is extremly interesting. I also use CalSky and I have the Nightsky Tools installed on my mobile. I'm totally in astro imaging. Observing alone is not my business. I need to make photos so I have this stuff saved for eternity

 

I own a Sony Alpha 65 DSLR (bought in spring this year at time where I thought astronomy is only for millionairs). You can imagine that I have cried like a baby when I found out that my DSLR has no remote control SW for PC I need a Canon... But I'm practicing with DSLR and tripod as often as possible... fog since 5 weeks, you remember

 

One thing leads to another so I found out that sooner or later I will need autoguiding. EQMod is my choice for autoguiding together with PHD on my PC. And before I forget. My object of desire is a Skywatcher 200/1000 Newtonian on EQ5. I will start with this one and my DSLR. Short exposure time of course as long as I don't have autoguiding and fully automated equipement.

 

I can not spend thousands of Euros (wife, daughter, dogs  ) for this but I plan to upgrade step by step. And the kicker will be my own Obsy. Plans are still finished in SketchUp Make. But this will be a different post..

 

And one last thing: Here are some pics from my garden in summer.

 

 

Cheers guys

Martin

[Sirius Starwatcher]

Well Martin looks like your forward planning is complete for 2015 sop lease keep us informed of your progress and very best wishes for the future.

[bomberbaz]

Do you have a balcony AustroNoob

[Ahab]

You'll still see some stuff , the moon is nice and high , as is Andromeda and Jupiter late at night ... Maybe get some binoculars to try first

Yup, try the binos. I only got three acres and they are fine for me.

[AustroNoob]

@bomberbaz: Nope. If I would have one I would be up there. I live in a rented apartement. Only the backyard is mine. The balcony above belongs to my neighbour

@Ahab: No thanks. I need the real stuff. I do as much investigations as could to prevent myself from spending money for nothing. At the beginning I stuck with a

130/750 Newtonian on EQ2 until I found out that I need at least a EQ5 for astroimaging. If I had bought the small scope on EQ2 I'm pretty sure that I would regret it

after a couple of month. Besides I'm to lazy to sit in the garden, holding a bino.  

[LukeSkywatcher]

Once you can observe some stuff at zenith (its highest point in the sky), you will be ok. The high walls and sporadic trees in your image to me dont seem to be too bad. Your east/northeast seems obstructed. It just means a bit of a wait longer until you see things and they will be to your west.

But honestly................once you can see the sky above you......................thats all you need.

[AustroNoob]

Yeah especially that huge tree in northern direction concerns me a bit but hey, no risk no fun I guess I will have a lot of targets to observe cause I wan't to try my luck with planets as well as with the sun and moon. Just figuring out what suits best for me and then take the next step. Can't wait to get my scope 

[bomberbaz]

Naughty naughty, no suggestions of skullduggery permitted.          

[happy-kat]

^ edited, plus removal of an established tree might cause subsidence.

Your yard is not anywhere near as bad as my back yard.

Could you consider using the telescope you already own on a new tripod such as the eq you are considering. Or what about the skywatcher 130pds members are using to image.

Is the 200 on a eq5 right at the weight limit or over for imaging stability?

[D4N]

Pfft sometimes trees have to die for the greater good.

(As long as you own them that is)

I've removed several from my garden, I have also planted some though, I don't have a problem with small trees

You could get a 3m high pier and a stepladder to get the scope above the wall


TSED70Q, iOptron Smart EQ pro, ASI-120MM, Finepix S5 pro.

[barkis]

Hi Martin, and a warm welcome to SGL.

      It's a bit demoralising having a restricted area of sky to observe.

However, if you can plot what sky you have to observe, by studying a planetarium programme,

Stellarium has been suggested to you, and that will do fine.

You will be amazed at how many Deep Sky Objects will, at some time in a calendar year, pass through the sky window you do have.

Don't let the restrictions imposed on you, prevent you from enjoyng what will be available.

No need to go to great expense. An 8" or 10" Dobsonian will bring you a lot of pleasure.

Good Luck.

Ron.

[bomberbaz]

Naughty naughty, no suggestions of skullduggery permitted.

Oh dear censures. Hahaha sorry it was a tongue in cheek remark honest, one would never condone tree killing :-)

[D4N]

Ok I will admit I killed one of my neighbours trees too but I did get permission from them first and they were happy to see it go as it improved their view a lot.

I certainly wouldn't condone removing a tree if you have no right to do so.

TSED70Q, iOptron Smart EQ pro, ASI-120MM, Finepix S5 pro.

[AustroNoob]

Naughty naughty, no suggestions of skullduggery permitted.  

that was really a quick edit... no chance to read the original post but I can imagine...

^ edited, plus removal of an established tree might cause subsidence.

Your yard is not anywhere near as bad as my back yard.

Could you consider using the telescope you already own on a new tripod such as the eq you are considering. Or what about the skywatcher 130pds members are using to image.

Is the 200 on a eq5 right at the weight limit or over for imaging stability?

I have no scope so far. But I know exactly what I want and it's a 200/1000 Newtonian on a EQ5 (its a bundle) cause it has the best value for money here. If I buy a 130 and a EQ5 seperatly its 100 Euro cheaper then the 200/EQ5 set but I need to buy the accessories seperatly which are still included in the 200/EQ5 bundle.

With DSLR and finder scope it's nearly at the weight limit. My local scope dealer told me that this bundle is for astroimaging beginners and it will work. I must trust him

Pfft sometimes trees have to die for the greater good.

(As long as you own them that is)

I've removed several from my garden, I have also planted some though, I don't have a problem with small trees

You could get a 3m high pier and a stepladder to get the scope above the wall

TSED70Q, iOptron Smart EQ pro, ASI-120MM, Finepix S5 pro.

I have only one tree in MY garden and that is a Japanese cherry tree in NNE direction. Will cut that guy down to two meters in spring

And regarding your stepladder idea.... I had the same but I fear my neighbour above me will not love me if I can have a look in his bedroom 

Hi Martin, and a warm welcome to SGL.

      It's a bit demoralising having a restricted area of sky to observe.

However, if you can plot what sky you have to observe, by studying a planetarium programme,

Stellarium has been suggested to you, and that will do fine.

You will be amazed at how many Deep Sky Objects will, at some time in a calendar year, pass through the sky window you do have.

Don't let the restrictions imposed on you, prevent you from enjoyng what will be available.

No need to go to great expense. An 8" or 10" Dobsonian will bring you a lot of pleasure.

Good Luck.

Ron.

Yeah 'Stellarium is pretty cool. But I have not seen a sunray since 6 weeks and thats not so cool. No clear sky for testing stuff and playin' around.

Oh dear censures. Hahaha sorry it was a tongue in cheek remark honest, one would never condone tree killing :-)

I hope the punishment is not too hard mate 

Ok I will admit I killed one of my neighbours trees too but I did get permission from them first and they were happy to see it go as it improved their view a lot.

I certainly wouldn't condone removing a tree if you have no right to do so.

I won't and I can't cause I can't climb my 3m wall 

[D4N]

Odd that the wall is so high in the first place, where I used to live in the UK there was a bylaw prohibiting fences over 1.5m at the rear of the properties and front had to be open plan.

Far more sociable than a 3m wall!

Maybe just mount a pier on top of the wall and build some steps

The. It will be above your neighbours window so he can't moan

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

[AustroNoob]

One more reason to move to the UK  This kind of fences are very common in Austria. Unfortunatly neighbours had the right to demand such things under certain conditions. A pier on the wall is a great idea! The only problem is to build an Obsy on top of a 30cm wide wall...

Plan B is to buy the landing gear of Airbus A380. With a scope on top I have a hydraulic height adjustable and of course very stable pier