The "No EQ" DSO Challenge!

[The Admiral]

+1 to what Ken said, except I think you were using StarTools rather than gimp weren't you?

First things first. I assume that you are using your RAWs directly in DSS? If not, you really ought to be. If you are using ST, make sure that you follow the guidance given in the ST manual, that is:

"Giving StarTools virgin data is of the utmost importance. For example, if you are using DeepSkyStacker,
make sure 'RGB Channels Background Calibration' and 'Per Channel Background Calibration' are set to
'No'."

Also, don't mess about with the curves in DSS, just use the straight 'auto' output file. Use the FITS file format, which is set in "Stacking Parameters", "Intermediate Files" tab. ST should open those. Don't use other manually output files.

Now I rarely see colour in a single sub other than sky background, a bit of a sickly orange, unless it's a particularly bright object like M42. Quite often, I don't see colour in the stacked image either. If I auto develop, followed by wipe, what I get is generally B&W. It's only after I do a further re-stretch do things become apparent. But by the time you get to developing then at least the stars may take on colours, and in any event, there will be after using the colour module!

As Neil says, you can select subs (i.e. "check") based on the star score, but as he says, this is really a measure of how round stars are, I don't think it'll account for cloud. I think you'll have to go through manually and "un-check" those. Oh, it helps when you've finished selecting your files to "Save the File List" so that at least you can return to your selection later.

But whatever, don't give up.

Ian

Edited October 10, 2016 by The Admiral

[SteveNickolls]

1 hour ago, parallaxerr said:

Yes there is Fil, I've just found it and I am re-stacking with frames under a score of 1000 ignored.

Definitely think I'm missing something. After developing and wiping in ST I've got a B&W image. Not sure if it's DSS or ST settings that I need to adjust, will have to play around a bit. ST does offer 3 options on loading a new image that mentions debayering so will look there.

Also, ST wont open the autosaved TIFFs from DSS, but WILL open a TIFF if I save it manually. However, in the latter case the file size is about half?

I recall I had a similar issue when I was saving TIFF files not FITS in DSS. Using TIFF files gives a bleached out final image when you process in ST. Only use the autosaved FITS file out of DSS and you should see colour in your final processed image when using ST's! Hope this helps you.

Good luck.

Steve

Edited October 10, 2016 by SteveNickolls

[parallaxerr]

OK made a bit of progress. Changed DSS output file to FITS, which ST now reads OK. Also noted DSS is classifying my RAWs as gray 16bit, thought that was the colour issue but apparently not. Turns out RGB background calibration was turned off, tried a stack of 3 frames and had colour so now restacking 190 good frames. Also changed light frames from average to Kappa-sigma clipping as per recommended. Will see what comes out the other side!

[Stub Mandrel]

1 hour ago, happy-kat said:

Please you should only be using the autisaved fits file in startools. The autosave tiff file IS compressed.

DSS uses lossless compression.

[The Admiral]

14 minutes ago, parallaxerr said:

Also noted DSS is classifying my RAWs as gray 16bit, thought that was the colour issue but apparently not. 

Are you saying that the little icon next to the raw file didn't show the four-colour array? That doesn't sound right. My camera doesn't do conventional Bayer raws, but I still get a colour icon, although not in an array. Background calibration is off, what I thought ST required.

Perhaps someone who uses a conventional Bayer camera could chip in here? Could it be something in the RAW settings?

Ian

[Stub Mandrel]

DSS shows the four-coloured squares icon next to my RAW files.

[parallaxerr]

4 minutes ago, The Admiral said:

Are you saying that the little icon next to the raw file didn't show the four-colour array? That doesn't sound right. My camera doesn't do conventional Bayer raws, but I still get a colour icon, although not in an array. Background calibration is off, what I thought ST required.

Perhaps someone who uses a conventional Bayer camera could chip in here? Could it be something in the RAW settings?

Ian

My bad Ian, was looking at the column titled depth which reads gray 16bit. The coloured icon is there

 

[alacant]

2 hours ago, parallaxerr said:

ST won't open it

Hi. ST works only with linear -un-stretched and uncompressed- files. For DSS ensure you are saving as FITS and have nothing selected for your camera in the FITS dialogue -unless you are stacking FITS files.

 

Edited October 10, 2016 by alacant

[parallaxerr]

Thanks for all the pointers everyone, getting somewhere at least. However, just hit the next problem, harrumph.....

The FITS file output from DSS is 379MB in size and star tools just will not load it up. Program hangs and if I click anything it goes into not responding mode. I think this is just a size issue, what size FITS files are you guys working with?

[happy-kat]

2 hours ago, Stub Mandrel said:

DSS uses lossless compression.

If you compare file sizes and see previous discussions the autosave tiff file is compressed

[parallaxerr]

Just now, happy-kat said:

If you compare file sizes and see previous discussions the autosave tiff file is compressed

Yeah but you told me not to use TIFFs!? The TIFF I was using was about 180MB and that loaded fine within a minute or so.

[happy-kat]

Are you running 64 bit startools?

[happy-kat]

Just now, parallaxerr said:

Yeah but you told me not to use TIFFs!? The TIFF I was using was about 180MB and that loaded fine within a minute or so.

Correct don't use the tiff file, it is compressed, probably why now you are faced with a much bigger FITS file.

Over to the likes of Ian who does stack lots and lots of files.

[The Admiral]

Seems quite large to me, mine are around 190MB with a 16MB APS camera. I have the 64-bit ST and I've not had any loading issues. You are not using drizzle are you? I gather that can give huge files. That might explain why you left it processing over night, or was that just convenience? Otherwise, check out the ST forum and see if anything like this has been reported.

Ian

Edited October 10, 2016 by The Admiral

[happy-kat]

My much meager stacks re around 150 Mbs. If I use drizzle they go enourmous.

[Filroden]

The file size should not depend on the number of images stacked since the image does not contain any "history". It should just depend on the resolution of the camera. My file sizes (fits and tiffs) were all about 180Mb for the Canon EOS60d.

Unless, as you say, drizzle has been used as this artificially inflates the resolution, and the file size.

Edited October 10, 2016 by Filroden

[SteveNickolls]

4 hours ago, parallaxerr said:

Yes there is Fil, I've just found it and I am re-stacking with frames under a score of 1000 ignored.

Definitely think I'm missing something. After developing and wiping in ST I've got a B&W image. Not sure if it's DSS or ST settings that I need to adjust, will have to play around a bit. ST does offer 3 options on loading a new image that mentions debayering so will look there.

Also, ST wont open the autosaved TIFFs from DSS, but WILL open a TIFF if I save it manually. However, in the latter case the file size is about half?

The size of the file will depend on what you specified in DSS's Stacking Parameters-'Standard', 'mosaic', 'intersection' or 'custom rectangle' will all produce different final FITS file sizes. Standard mode usually produces for me a file around 200Mb, whereas mosaic could be a very large file indeed. Intersection mode will create the smallest size. When I have attempted mosaic ST just hangs, maybe out of my 8Gb system memory limitation.

Regards,
Steve

[alacant]

Hi. 700d: 204Mb. You need 64bit and as much Ram as you can throw at it. Make sure that you have no other stuff running before you call ST. If you are patient it will eventually load even in 4Gb RAM -have a beer meanwhile- but it'll be unresponsive whilst it does so. Make sure your /tmp -linux- or ST folder on windows contain nothing but the .trk or ST files respectively. As soon as it loads, bin it -to say 35%- so that you'll be able to process in more or less real time **. HTH

**Realistically the only way to be able work with full size stacks is a 16GB machine with /tmp or the ST folder (linux-windows respectively) in RAM

Edited October 10, 2016 by alacant

[Nigel G]

My fits are 206 MB from a canon 1300D

hope you get it sorted soon. 

[happy-kat]

That explains my smaller fits as have an 1100d which is 12MP

[SteveNickolls]

And as alacant says do BIN as the first process in StarTools to reduce the working file size down and quicken up the subsequent steps, then CROP :-) 

Cheers,
Steve

[parallaxerr]

56 minutes ago, The Admiral said:

You are not using drizzle are you? I gather that can give huge files. That might explain why you left it processing over night, or was that just convenience?

Nope, no drizzle. Overnight was just convenience, I'm re-stacking 1hrs worth at the moment with various settings. Takes about 15mins.

38 minutes ago, SteveNickolls said:

whereas mosaic could be a very large file indeed

That's what I've been using, trying standard now.

47 minutes ago, Filroden said:

It should just depend on the resolution of the camera

Hmm, 24MP so quite large.

38 minutes ago, alacant said:

You need 64bit and as much Ram as you can throw at it

Yup, 64bit and 12GB of triple channel RAM.

 

Looks like there's a few tweaks to be made, watch this space! Thanks everyone for your input

Jon

[parallaxerr]

Progress

OK so I selected standard stacking instead of mosaic which knocked 100MB off the FITs file, which then opened instantly in ST. Also set RGB background calibration and got colour! However, I then read an ST instruction which says to set for no colour calibration so trying without that setting now.

Anyhoo, a bit rough and noisy but there's colour

[The Admiral]

Super Jon, that's a lot more like it! Is that using the colour module? Looks like you are on your way 

Ian

Edited October 10, 2016 by The Admiral

[Stub Mandrel]

1 hour ago, happy-kat said:

If you compare file sizes and see previous discussions the autosave tiff file is compressed

Yes but it uses 'deflate' which is lossless compression so you don't lose any data.