The "No EQ" DSO Challenge!

[Stub Mandrel]

28 minutes ago, alacant said:

Hi. Nice images anyway. I think the main advantage of Ivo's ST layers is that you can choose how much of each exposure you take.

I usually end up with half a dozen versions of my images. I sometimes put the best into photoshop as layers and adjust their percentages to try and get the best 'mix'. I have a tendency to over-sharpen and over-colour, so taking the over-processed version as a layer on top of a more conservative version and experimenting with the percentage is a good idea.

[Nigel G]

I think I made a better job of it this time, seem to have sorted the core out a bit and its fairly sharp too, got to be my best stacked image yet,

The triple spikes on the big stars came from DSS as there was an hour between some of the subs due to cloud, I've not seen that before, its rotation not focus I think.

Never did I expect results like these when I started about 10 months ago, For only 30 minutes of sub's and a full moon, I'm chuffed with this if I do say so myself.

Cheers

Nige.

 

[The Admiral]

You've got every right to be pleased with yourself with that one, Nige. I think we are all pretty amazed at what we've achieved since we started this Alt-Az imaging lark, not known for producing anything of worth. Well, we've proved 'em wrong! Is that with combining in ST?

I wonder if your diffraction spikes are because you are using a much shorter exposure time than you are used to, so the field rotation is less and they get less chance to 'smear out' during the stacking?

Ian

[Herzy]

12 hours ago, alacant said:

Hi. Good suggestions but I think you're gonna have to wait until next week for the nebulae. HTH.

You're right. The moon was way to bright to do anything, so I packed up. 

[jimbo747]

6 hours ago, Nigel G said:

I think I made a better job of it this time, seem to have sorted the core out a bit and its fairly sharp too, got to be my best stacked image yet,

The triple spikes on the big stars came from DSS as there was an hour between some of the subs due to cloud, I've not seen that before, its rotation not focus I think.

Never did I expect results like these when I started about 10 months ago, For only 30 minutes of sub's and a full moon, I'm chuffed with this if I do say so myself.

Cheers

Nige.

 

 

Thats a cracking image, love the colour!

My mini observatory is pretty much setup now (although not yet attached the linear actuators and raspberry pi), was hoping to do a few test shots tonight but little one woke up. 

Not sure what combo to go for, can use the full spec modded 1100d and with 50mm or a zoom lens, attach to the mak or the 70mm travelscope, or try out my new asi 224mc with either a ef lens adapter or attached to the travelscope or mak with a reducer... Quite interested to see what the 224mc can achieve at native focal length of the mak and 5s-10s images over 4 or 5 hours.

 

 

 

 

[Filroden]

I love the depth of field in your M42 image, Nige. It makes me think it looks like an ear listening to the universe! And I'd never have thought that diffraction spikes would rotate, so we've learnt something new about alt/az imaging. I guess we need to image for a limited period on each target over multiple nights, timed so that the frame is roughly aligned in each session (so earlier and earlier each session)? Alternatively, it's something else that needs to be processed afterwards? That said, I think your triple spikes look pretty unique and add something to the image.

I also notice that your stars are incredible round! I guess the shorter exposures really help that. I've only imaged M42 when I first started and that was with the 9.25" beast. I think I was limited to 4 and 8 second subs at the time so I can't wait for it to become a late evening object this year for round two. Thinking of which, I think I only ever processed it through Photoshop and I wonder what Pixinsight might reveal?

[happy-kat]

Nige I'd check the vanes on the 150p I think that is where your triple refraction spikes may be originating.

I've read posts before in the 130p-ds thread.

[DorsetBlue]

8 minutes ago, happy-kat said:

Nige I'd check the vanes on the 150p I think that is where your triple refraction spikes may be originating.

I've read posts before in the 130p-ds thread.

If you are bothered by the refraction spikes, have you tried using the ST Heal/Synth modules (not tried them personally, as I have been using my DSLR lenses up to now)?

[Nigel G]

2 hours ago, Filroden said:

I love the depth of field in your M42 image, Nige. It makes me think it looks like an ear listening to the universe! And I'd never have thought that diffraction spikes would rotate, so we've learnt something new about alt/az imaging. I guess we need to image for a limited period on each target over multiple nights, timed so that the frame is roughly aligned in each session (so earlier and earlier each session)? Alternatively, it's something else that needs to be processed afterwards? That said, I think your triple spikes look pretty unique and add something to the image.

I also notice that your stars are incredible round! I guess the shorter exposures really help that. I've only imaged M42 when I first started and that was with the 9.25" beast. I think I was limited to 4 and 8 second subs at the time so I can't wait for it to become a late evening object this year for round two. Thinking of which, I think I only ever processed it through Photoshop and I wonder what Pixinsight might reveal?

I Think the spikes came from taking my subs between cloud cover, I had to wait for half an hour several times, this is noticeable in the stacking artefacts, normally theres no waiting so DSS sorts the spikes into 1 set. the fact that they are not slowly rotating but 3 or 4 big jumps caused it. I'm sure startools can sort it, I'm going to try this evening.

Cheers

Nige.

[The Admiral]

I've been thinking a bit more about using ST to blend short and long exposure subs. Whilst DSS can be made to use a common master so that they will all be aligned, there is still the problem that if we crop the images in ST, as we have to to get rid of stacking artefacts, then unless the crop is exactly identical in both size and relationship to the star field, when we come to blend, I fear the stars won't be in the same positions. Obviously the situation is a lot easier with EQ imaging, but has anyone tried using ST in this way with images of Alt-Az origin? I guess it could be done so long as care is taken, down to the pixel level in cropping. Something to try when I next image, when my cold virus has run its course and the Moon ceases to impose.

Ian

[The Admiral]

2 hours ago, Nigel G said:

I Think the spikes came from taking my subs between cloud cover, I had to wait for half an hour several times, this is noticeable in the stacking artefacts, normally theres no waiting so DSS sorts the spikes into 1 set. the fact that they are not slowly rotating but 3 or 4 big jumps caused it. I'm sure startools can sort it, I'm going to try this evening.

Cheers

Nige.

I've wondered what happens to diffraction spikes with Alt-Az imaging. Because the spikes are fixed in relation to the 'scope rather than the star field (in the same way that the image edges are too), then when DSS aligns the stars the spikes themselves won't be aligned. I can't say I've noticed much in the way of spikes with your previous images Nige, so I'd sort of assumed that if you are using Kappa-Sigma clipping they will be eradicated, like satellite trails are supposed to be. So I'm not too sure why the spikes are so visible here.

Ian

[SteveNickolls]

Hi,

I'm steadily working my way through my back catalogue of images and reworking in DSS and StarTools. Here is an image of the Flame Nebula and The Horsehead Nebula (Barnard 33) first imaged in February this year when the objects were 'best' placed for me to image in the South, but over the light pollution of the Nottingham conurbation. The image is much improved on my first processing attempt but there is still evidence of light pollution in the final image. It was made from x182 thirty second light frames at ISO 1600 plus x50 dark and x50 bias frames. At the time I wasn't taking flat frames. The equipment used - my SkyWatcher Startravel 102mm refractor (f/5), Synscan Alt-Az mount and Canon 600D DSLR.

Cheers,
Steve

Edited October 17, 2016 by SteveNickolls

[Nigel G]

4 hours ago, The Admiral said:

I've been thinking a bit more about using ST to blend short and long exposure subs. Whilst DSS can be made to use a common master so that they will all be aligned, there is still the problem that if we crop the images in ST, as we have to to get rid of stacking artefacts, then unless the crop is exactly identical in both size and relationship to the star field, when we come to blend, I fear the stars won't be in the same positions. Obviously the situation is a lot easier with EQ imaging, but has anyone tried using ST in this way with images of Alt-Az origin? I guess it could be done so long as care is taken, down to the pixel level in cropping. Something to try when I next image, when my cold virus has run its course and the Moon ceases to impose.

Ian

I haven't tried yet but I'm going to, In the layer module there is tabs to offset one image on the vertical and horizontal planes, any rotation will have to be done before hand.

Cropping shouldn't be a problem as long as you crop identically size wise ( should be easy enough using crop measurements ), a few pixels around the edge can be cropped out after the layer.

Nige.

[Nigel G]

2 hours ago, SteveNickolls said:

Hi,

I'm steadily working my way through my back catalogue of images and reworking in DSS and StarTools. Here is an image of the Flame Nebula and The Horsehead Nebula (Barnard 33) first imaged in February this year when the objects were 'best' placed for me to image in the South, but over the light pollution of the Nottingham conurbation. The image is much improved on my first processing attempt but there is still evidence of light pollution in the final image. It was made from x182 thirty second light frames at ISO 1600 plus x50 dark and x50 bias frames. At the time I wasn't taking flat frames. The equipment used - my SkyWatcher Startravel 102mm refractor (f/5), Synscan Alt-Az mount and Canon 600D DSLR.

Cheers,
Steve

I like it, this is one of my next targets. It is better than I expected we'd be able to capture.

Nice Steve. A little more hope gained  

Nige.

[The Admiral]

2 hours ago, SteveNickolls said:

Hi,

I'm steadily working my way through my back catalogue of images and reworking in DSS and StarTools. Here is an image of the Flame Nebula and The Horsehead Nebula (Barnard 33) first imaged in February this year when the objects were 'best' placed for me to image in the South, but over the light pollution of the Nottingham conurbation. The image is much improved on my first processing attempt but there is still evidence of light pollution in the final image. It was made from x182 thirty second light frames at ISO 1600 plus x50 dark and x50 bias frames. At the time I wasn't taking flat frames. The equipment used - my SkyWatcher Startravel 102mm refractor (f/5), Synscan Alt-Az mount and Canon 600D DSLR.

Cheers,
Steve

That's great Steve, an order of magnitude better than your first process! Horse Head showing up nicely too.

Ian

[Nigel G]

20 minutes ago I set up my mount ready for the scope,  the sky's were gin clear all round,  I just made my dinner and could hear a sound coming from the conservatory observatory.  Popped out and it's bucketing it down with rain. Mr weather man said clear sky's all night.  

Hopefully just a passing shower, anyway mount indoors and dry now. 

I need a new weather man 

Nige.

[Filroden]

I know. It's looking clear here but I've just driven 300 miles and am shattered. I'm gonna use the excuse of a full moon to have an early night! But it's looking like tomorrow might also be clear so I can do some more testing of the new camera.

[The Admiral]

4 minutes ago, Nigel G said:

I need a new weather man 

Nige.

Don't we all! Consistency of forecasting has been woeful.

Ian

Edited October 17, 2016 by The Admiral

[SteveNickolls]

2 hours ago, Nigel G said:

20 minutes ago I set up my mount ready for the scope,  the sky's were gin clear all round,  I just made my dinner and could hear a sound coming from the conservatory observatory.  Popped out and it's bucketing it down with rain. Mr weather man said clear sky's all night.  

Hopefully just a passing shower, anyway mount indoors and dry now. 

I need a new weather man 

Nige.

I do hope you had the mount covered to stop the wet getting in Nige. Ian is right about the poor weather forecasts of late, and it doesn't help that the weather too is plain poor. This October so far has been the worst for observing since I started keeping records in 2012-13 and September was joint worst with 2012-13, I hope it improves before long. 

Cheers,
Steve

 

 

[Nigel G]

Steve, as the sky was so clear I didn't have it covered up but got there just after the heavens opened so it was not much wetter than a heavy dew, fortunately I had not mounted the scope.  My conservatory observatory doors were wide open with my astro pc fired up waiting, that was in danger so a swift drag away from the wet stuff, a little water on the tower unit but luckily no water inside  .

Rain lasted 1.5 hours and still light clouds so all shut down and packed up.

Met office still say clear but changed their minds about the rain half hour after it started. That reminds me of a time I was sailing solo from IoW to Brighton, forecasters said 15 -20 mph wind, I got hit by 45 mph wind squalls,  1 hour later met office gave a strong wind warning over the VHF with gusts to 40.

Clear sky's are coming. 

Nige

[Nigel G]

I have been told about a software program which is a plugin to photo shop, Light room and more. It does a good job at finding details.

Topaz Adjust, its a months free trial program, I must say I'm impressed.

I tried a couple of images with good results. Worth a look.

I have posted a couple of images to compare, these were done quite quickly so much room for improvement.

Nige.

 

[Filroden]

Just going to give it a try now. I've previously purchased Topaz Simplify and Impression for normal photography but I've not tried Adjust (thinking it did the same thing as Lightroom's develop). However, it's effect on your images is spectacular, revealing far more detail and really extending the contrast. Might be a really useful final processing step.

[happy-kat]

M42 is interesting difference but m33 looks too much made it clunky over processed/stretched for my preference.

[The Admiral]

It's certainly brought out a lot more in both the images, but with the M33 I think it's at the expense of noise. Whether that can be tamed I'm not sure, probably.

The thing about the plethora of these plug-ins is that I think, in theory at least*, one should be able to duplicate them using existing controls, so I'm a bit loathe to go out and buy yet more software. I guess it comes down to ease and speed though. Each to their own.

Ian

* Edit. Hmm, that may be more difficult than I thought, having had a play with your jpeg!

Edited October 18, 2016 by The Admiral

[Stub Mandrel]

1 hour ago, The Admiral said:

It's certainly brought out a lot more in both the images, but with the M33 I think it's at the expense of noise. Whether that can be tamed I'm not sure, probably.

The thing about the plethora of these plug-ins is that I think, in theory at least*, one should be able to duplicate them using existing controls, so I'm a bit loathe to go out and buy yet more software. I guess it comes down to ease and speed though. Each to their own.

Ian

* Edit. Hmm, that may be more difficult than I thought, having had a play with your jpeg!

Actions are built using existing controls, plug-ins can use methods you can't replicate.

So in theory Steve's or Noel's actions can be built by hand, HLVG or Gradient Exterminator probably not.