Bench drill needed

[JamesF]

This talk of drills reminds me...

I was thinking the other day that it would be quite handy to have a set of drills in the range 10mm to 20mm where the entire bit length was a maximum of, say, 120mm.  These would mainly be for use in the tailstock of the lathe (the bed isn't long, so using a drill bit getting on for 200mm long is far from a pleasant experience.

Does anyone sell such items?

James

[Bizibilder]

Proper tool suppliers sell "stub drills" which are considerably shorter than the "standard jobbers drills" that we are all used to.  You can also get "long series" and "extra long series" drills.  These, not surprisingly, are longer than standard jobbers drills  .

[JamesF]

Ahhh, "stub" drills.  It's all so much easier when you know what you're looking for

Thank you, Roger.

James

[tekkydave]

The chuck itself will have a Morse taper shank that fits into the quill of the drilling machine.  This chuck takes straight shank drills in the normal way.  However, when it comes to larger drills you have two problems to overcome - firstly rigidity, which is lessened by the chucks various components and the size of the shank itself. Secondly large drills are long!  This can lead to you having insufficient headroom under the tip of the drill to fit the part you want to drill the hole in!!  Therefore by removing the chuck and inserting the tapered shank of the drill directly into the machines quill you remove about 3"-4" of chuck - thus allowing you to get your component to fit.  For really large things you can turn the whole head of the drill through 180° and put the workpiece on the floor at the back of the drill (if you see what I mean) - very clumbersome but it can be done!

Morse (and other shallow tapers) will "lock" into their tapered sockets and will not turn or spin when under torsional load (as when drilling).  You can buy a tapered wedge (you should get one with the drilling machine) that you use to remove the taper when you need to change chucks or drills.  If you pull the quill down by the handle (as if drilling a hole) you will see a slot in the side of the quill.  Through the slot you can see the top of the chuck or drills tapered shank (the flat part on the end).  you put the wedge into the hole and push it till it "wedges" between the top of the tang and the top of the hole, then a gentle tap with a hammer and the chuck or drill will drop out!!  Remember to put a piece of wood under the chuck or drill before doing this or you will damage something as the heavy chuck drops onto the drilling table.

Roger, you are a font of knowledge. I think I understand how it works now. I was thinking the taper was in the chuck not where the chuck connects to the drill. I wondered why the drill bits with tapers were only the larger ones. I obviously have a lot to learn. Are there any good beginners books you can recommend?

[JamesF]

I've not read this one (obviously , but it may be useful: http://www.amazon.co.uk/Drills-Taps-Dies-Workshop-Practice/dp/0852428669/

The entire "Workshop Practice" series covers all sorts of interesting stuff and whilst they can be a bit variable from book to book the ones I've read have generally been very helpful.

And who wouldn't want a book written by someone called "Tubal Cain" ?

James

[ChrisLX200]

The other type of drill to look for are 'Blacksmith Drills', these are large diameter reduced-shank drills (so they will fit your drill chuck) which are fairly short - like stub drills.

http://www.chronos.ltd.uk/cgi-bin/ss000001.pl?RANDOM=NETQUOTEVAR%3ARANDOM&PAGE=SEARCH&SO=1_3_4_0&SS=blacksmith&ACTION=Search&TB=A&PR=-1&GB=A&SX=0

A bit easier to sharpen than MT2 shank drills too because they will fit a grinding jig more easily.

ChrisH

[Bizibilder]

That "Drills Taps and Dies" book is very good.  Mainly to do with tapping holes and cutting threads but there is a lot of good information about drills and how to use them properly as well.

Just to confuse things drill chucks often attach to their own taper shanks with......another taper!!  ie the shank has two tapers - one on each end - one to fit into the chuck and the other one a Morse for the machine.  Cheap chucks often screw on to their taper shanks but this is nowhere near as accurate. (It also precludes the use of left handed drills as the screw would undo!!)

Left handed drills are made and are used in multi-spindle machines where several drilling heads are connected by gears.  Any two gears in mesh must rotate in opposite directions - so a right handed drill head in mesh with another head must need a LH drill bit!

[JamesF]

I have some blacksmith drills, but they're nowhere near as short as those look so I'm tempted to make a purchase

James

[Bizibilder]

Just another note - the shanks of drills are left soft in manufacture so, if you want to shorten a drill, you can get away with cutting a bit off the shank (but leaving enough to grip in the chuck) or you can turn it down in a lathe if it is too big for your chuck.

You can extend drills by getting a piece of steel rod, drilling a hole into the end of and silver soldering the drill bit into the hole.  Very useful for getting at hard to reach places.

[Zakalwe]

I have a cheapo sub-£100 Clarke pillar drill and I can guarantee that it will not get anywhere near 14mm in steel. At best it's only suitable for drilling up to about 8mm.

If you are only drilling a few holes for a pier plate then I would personally either pay a local machine shop to do it, rather than spending £hundreds on a pillar drill *unless* you are very sure that you'll get future use out of it.

Or, alternatively, you should be able to drill 14mm holes by hand, as long as you employ a clamp-on hand-grip on the drill and brace it very well against your leg. I recently drilled 8 x 17mm holes in some 8mm MS plate using a cheap no-name hand-drill. It wasn't pretty, it took a while and the drill got VERY hot, but I got there. It was certainly good enough for the job that it was needed for (pier extension).  I wouldn't attempt it though unless you are pretty strong and used to it as it jammed and tried to spin itself around more times than I care to remember (hence the need for the additional grip to brace the drill).

[Mick J]

I have used these (18mm) on RSJ's  http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/280983816139 cheap and cut well but delivery takes time,  I have also used a mag drill with broaching cutters,  would there be a way of fixing broaching cutters in a drill or lathe ?

[tekkydave]

Thanks everyone, especially Roger/Bizibilder for the great advice over the last few days. I'll be taking a look at getting a good book or some online help to get me up & running. The D19 is ordered so I guess I'll have to clear the junk off my workbench in the garage and prepare a space for my new toy. I think it will get a reasonable amount of use not just for my current project. As I said earlier I'm always making things or doing diy jobs that need a decent bench drill. The D19 is good value so its not like I'm spending thousands of pounds on something that will just gather dust.

I'll try and take some pictures of the unboxing, setup and first steps to see how I get on. I'm sure I'll still have lots of questions to ask.

[Mick J]

You know how it is....... pop up a post and find something on ebay  http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/371134266211   sellers other items are interesting as well.

[wuthton]

Thanks everyone, especially Roger/Bizibilder for the great advice over the last few days. I'll be taking a look at getting a good book or some online help to get me up & running. The D19 is ordered so I guess I'll have to clear the junk off my workbench in the garage and prepare a space for my new toy. I think it will get a reasonable amount of use not just for my current project. As I said earlier I'm always making things or doing diy jobs that need a decent bench drill. The D19 is good value so its not like I'm spending thousands of pounds on something that will just gather dust.

I'll try and take some pictures of the unboxing, setup and first steps to see how I get on. I'm sure I'll still have lots of questions to ask.

I'm sure you'll soon be wondering how you ever did without one. I use mine way more than my cordless.

[skybadger]

I used my cheap ads drill with a conventional chuck to drive 25mm holes through a 1" plate.

Unless you want to do this fairly frequently I wouldn't buy a pillar drill for just this.

I have one and its average in quality but it does get used frequently.

Mike

[tekkydave]

I used my cheap ads drill with a conventional chuck to drive 25mm holes through a 1" plate.

Unless you want to do this fairly frequently I wouldn't buy a pillar drill for just this.

I have one and its average in quality but it does get used frequently.

Mike

It's less then £300 so no big problem with it not getting a huge amount of use. It will get enough use to make it worth the purchase. Plus after struggling with a hand-held drill trying to drill the pier plate I want to hang on to my eyes and fingers if possible

[Tinker1947]

So you want, safety Glasses and some nice leather gloves, some of the swarf will shred your skin.....

http://www.axminster.co.uk/leather-gauntlet

[tekkydave]

So you want, safety Glasses and some nice leather gloves, some of the swarf will shred your skin.....

http://www.axminster.co.uk/leather-gauntlet

Thanks for the link.

[Bizibilder]

Two rules for drilling 'oles:

ALWAYS wear safety specs.

ALWAYS bolt, clamp or otherwise hold the workpiece securely before starting to drill and always bolt down any vice that you are using.

 Remember that hands make extremely bad vices!!!!! 

[tekkydave]

The D19 will be delivered on Friday

It only weighs 86Kg (13.5 stone)  .

I told my wife she would need to carry it up the stairs to the office but I think she spotted I was joking  .

It might have to sit in the garage for a couple of weeks till I get the workbench moved and some room for safe working sorted out. I feel a clear-out coming on.

[Tinker1947]

Depending on your room, i built brick piers to about 30" high then 4" X 2" timber running the full length, then  3/4" ply on top, just be aware and bench space will become a dumping ground for all those bits that really need a proper home....

Like this.......

[tekkydave]

Ha Ha, looks like our garage. I have a bench I made from a very sturdy pallet that we had something delivered on. It is battened to the wall on the back edge and has 2 legs made of 6" x 2" joists on the front corners. The top is covered with 3/4" chipboard. Overall it's about 5ft x 5ft and is very solid - it could easily take the weight of 5 or 6 grown men.

I want to relocate it to the rear of the garage so the drill will be away from public gaze when the garage door is open. I did lots of safety courses in my days as an engineer at the beeb so I know all about safe working - we had it drilled into us (pardon the pun) at every opportunity.

[JamesF]

Like this.......

Holy cow!  I thought my father-in-law was bad.

James

[JamesF]

Oh, and on the subject of purchases, I emailed Chronos who confirmed that the drill bits in that set of blacksmith's drills are 130mm long overall, so I bought a (metric) set (together with some blanks for making up my own lathe tools).

I have a use for the 22mm immediately it arrives

James

[D4N]

Two rules for drilling 'oles:

ALWAYS wear safety specs.

ALWAYS bolt, clamp or otherwise hold the workpiece securely before starting to drill and always bolt down any vice that you are using.

Remember that hands make extremely bad vices!!!!!

Agree with that, safety first with power tools.

Some of the worst bench drill accidents are loose sleeves dragging the whole arm in.

Short or tight sleeves are a good idea as occasionally people break or even lose an arm to these.

TSED70Q, iOptron Smart EQ pro, ASI-120MM, Finepix S5 pro.