Newbie Astronomer - How to make the most of poor equipment

[procky1845]

Hi All,

Just wanted to say hello.

I've always had a bit of an interest in space, the stars and such, and I've always told myself that one day I would purchase a telescope and give astronomy a go. My wife bought me a telescope for my 30th birthday a couple of months ago and I've been using it to peruse the night skies.

My  telescope is not great (to put it lightly). Its a Seben 700-76 reflector telescope. The mounts very shaky, the optics are less than stellar, and its very difficult to see whatever it is that I'm attempting to look at. Out of the provided eyepieces I soon learnt that the only ones of any use are the 20mm, 12.5mm and 6mm.

Despite all this, I'm hooked. On the odd occassion where I have managed to see what I'm looking for I've had a great time. I've seen and resolved Albireo, viewed M13 as a faint smudge, observed the M39 open cluster, seen a few different coloured stars and have seen the Andromeda Galaxy ("seen" might be a bit of a strong word, it appeared as a small ball of light, I couldn't even make out the galaxy shape).

I've bought a couple of books, the S&T Pocket Sky Atlas, Turn Left at Orion and have learnt a lot of the constellations using a combination of Stellarium and giving myself neck ache in the back garden. I've also learnt how to star hop with reasonable success, and have learnt the difficult lesson that if your finderscope doesn't point in the right direction, you'll spend all night looking in the wrong direction.

I already have plans for a bigger scope, but I won't be buying a new one until Christmas time. I don't want to offend my wife, and if I can survive until then on the Seben it proves to myself that I'm not going to lose interest (and also I will more than deserve it by that point!).

So my questions are:

1. Has anybody else had any "experience" of using this scope to successfully hunt down some interesting sights? Any pointers for how to get the best out of this monster would be greatly appreciated.
    
2. Has anybody got any more general tips that would help somebody in my situation with a poor scope improve the things they can see.
    
3. What sort of things should I be able to see with it, I wouldn't say light pollution is a major problem for me as I'm more on the outskirts of the city where I live, but I have tried to spot the Ring Nebula every single time I've been out with the scope and failed. Maybe the scope's not up to it?

There is some awesome content on these forums and some very knowledgeable people, its been very helpful over the past couple of months.

Anyway, thanks for taking the time to read!

[oldpink]

Welcome to SGL
can't help with your questions but I'm sure someone will be able to steer you in the right direction

[algol]

Id say your best bet is to find a dark sky site near to you this should improve your viewing.

Also a decent pair of binoculars can really help you learn your way around.

And the ring nebula is tiny so it may be that your seeing it but not knowing you are.

Turn left at Orion is a great book to help get you started

clear skies

Steve

[rowan46]

First thing first if you are saving up for a new one you don't want to be spending much money on this one.  the optics on these things are usable  so look at what you can do to steady the mount . Sand in the legs will add some weight, new washers, tightened bolts will make some difference. better eyepieces can be used on a new scope as well look at the bst starguiders or and celestron excel. vixen npl plossls are pretty decent too for the price although eye relief is tight at the short end

[Floater]

Welcome, Procky.

It strikes me that you have just the right attitude (even that back-breaking one!) to enjoy this fascinating hobby.

The 'gurus' will be able to help.

Enjoy yourself.

[laudropb]

Hello and welcome to the SGL. I am a newbie myself and do not know about the scope you have. As has been said your attitude would indicate that you will triumph in the end. 

Having recently seen the Ring Nebula for the first time it really is very small in the EP and you need good seeing and a fairly high mag to see much detail. 

Good luck and clear skys

[procky1845]

Hi Guys,

Thanks for the responses. 

Rowan - You are absolutely correct that I don't want to spend a lot on this one when I'm going to be replacing it, however if something like new eyepieces would help me in the interim, that may be an option.

You mentioned possibly upgrading to something like the Vixen npl's. If I were to purchase a new scope in the future, possibly something like a Skywatcher Explorer 150p (as an example), would the Vixen eyepieces (or any of the others you mentioned) likely be better than the optics I would get as standard with the scope or would these likely be redundant after I get a new scope?

Floater - Perseverence is one of my better qualities, even if it does mean a lot of frustration!

Cheers.

[happy-kat]

I only see it with adverted vision with my 130p.

I am learning to

My most used eyepeice is the 16mm maxvision.

Sounds like you are striding ahead

[happy-kat]

16mm maxvision was from Germany stellar price

[oldpink]

Eyepieces tend to be either 1.25" or 2" so interchangeable with most scopes
the supplied SW are Ok but not great and it depends on the scope / package you buy as toi what eyepieces if any are supplied

[rowan46]

Hi Guys,

Thanks for the responses. 

Rowan - You are absolutely correct that I don't want to spend a lot on this one when I'm going to be replacing it, however if something like new eyepieces would help me in the interim, that may be an option.

You mentioned possibly upgrading to something like the Vixen npl's. If I were to purchase a new scope in the future, possibly something like a Skywatcher Explorer 150p (as an example), would the Vixen eyepieces (or any of the others you mentioned) likely be better than the optics I would get as standard with the scope or would these likely be redundant after I get a new scope?

Floater - Perseverence is one of my better qualities, even if it does mean a lot of frustration!

Cheers.

All the eyepieces mentioned are better than the stock eyepieces provided with scopes so will be useful in a new scope. The vixen plossls have the narrowest fov  they are very sharp but at the shortest focal lengths are not the most comfortable. the bst's, excel's and I forgot to mention maxvision  are very good eyepieces that will be a significant step up on stock eyepieces. 

[LukeSkywatcher]

Ive never used your make of scope,so i cant help there. Some good advice above about tips on better observing and such. Ive only ever seen The Ring using a 130mm scope and a 200mm scope. Ive tried with a 70mm scope, but it just wasnt up to the job.

[ronin]

Immaterial of everything it is an honest scope = they have not made it a bird jones design.

You are right that the eyepieces will be limiting it at this time.

Vixen NPL's are nice eyepieces, they are a plossl design and within reason will be usable on any future scope you get. I use "within reason" as if your next scope is something like an f/4.7 300mm newtonian they will be pushed to the limit. But I doubt that your next scope will be that extreme.

Check out the used astro equipment on http://www.astrobuysell.com/uk/

Occasionally there are used plossl's up for sale at £12-15, don't go smaller then 8mm, just thinking one or two if they appear could be worth grabbing.

Add a location to your details, there are a number of clubs around and if you join one people there may have the occasional one for sale. When I had a clear out I gave the "spare" ones away. Kept someone happy.

As to what to see.

Would have thought that M57 Ring Nebula would have been possible, go no smaller then the 12,5mm eyepiece and don't use the erect image whatsit. The recent light nights and now the moon will not have helped, so wait a week or 10 days then go look, or get out before the moon appears and spoils things. The 6mm may do something and as you will have it with you give it a go once M57 is located.

If you can work out where it is try M27, The Dumbbell Nebula also. I say if you can work out where it is as I have no idea so cannot say where to go look.

If M57 is observed the swing up to the top of Lyra and get the double double, then swing "left" to Alberio - nice double of different colours, finally head to the plough and the middle star in the handle is a very easy double. With luck and a wide (25mm) eyepiece that should occupy 15 minutes, maybe 30 if you take your time. Easy but a nice start.

I wouldn't really bother with galaxies, too dim or too big. If you want to tick off M31, Andromeda, then use binoculars.

For clusters try M13 in Hercules, scope should do it and to find it either 2 eyes or binoculars.

Other clusters are Pleiades M45 (late into the evening/night) and the double cluster in Perseus.

I have assumed you know and can find the main constellations, if not then ignore the scope just get out and work out whatever you can. Plough and Casseiopia are the starting pair generally.

If you want to "cheat" and "see" galaxies then find Leo, go to the rear end of Leo, then go out a bit more and up a little. To the eye the sky looks a bit blank, in binoculars several little dots appear, in a scope more little dots appear. That is a galaxy cluster and about 12 or 15 Messier galaxies. So 12 to 15 galaxies in one go. :grin: :grin: and less then 2 minutes (I did say cheat!)  Think it is part of the Virgo Galaxy Cluster, nice one to find/see as then you can point it out to people if they have binoculars. To find Leo - find the Plough, the pointers point "up" to Polaris and "down" to Leo, so not difficult to find.

[procky1845]

Hey,

Thanks for all the help. I'm thinking maybe a 15mm Vixen NPL might be an option in the near future.  At least that way i'm not doubling up on the same magnifications.

ronin - I have actually tried the double-double in Lyra. I could only make out the initial double but couldn't resolve each double's double. I also saw the Mizar/Alcor pair and also Albireo. Tried looking for the Dumbell Nebula last night but initially it was cloudy, and as soon as the clouds had cleared the moon was shining high in the sky which put an end to the search.

Cheers.

[swamp thing]

Hi

I found hanging a weight of the centre of the tripod always helped to stabilise my tasco 114 reflector. Try using the tripod less extended this also helps stabilise the scope.

Also, the supplied 24mm finder scope was a singlet lens. To combat chromatic aberration the manufacturer used an aperture stop behind the objective lens. Now, whilst that helped get rid of the CA it also gave ridiculously dark views as it effectively made the finder into about 7mm of aperture. By unscrewing the objective kens I removed the plastic aperture stop and binned it. Hey presto, the finder suffered CA but at least I could actually locate dimmer objects than the moon and planets with it afterwards. Try this it can really help you find fainter stuff.

HTH

[AndyWB]

Vixen NPL's are nice eyepieces, they are a plossl design and within reason will be usable on any future scope you get. I use "within reason" as if your next scope is something like an f/4.7 300mm newtonian they will be pushed to the limit. But I doubt that your next scope will be that extreme.

I use a 30mm NPL in my f/4.7  250mm newtonian, and it's quite acceptable. Not perfect, but pretty good.

Yeah, splitting the double-double in a 70mm scope - well, the scope's theoretical resolution is 1.66 arcsecs, and the two pairs are 2.3 and 2.6 arc seconds apart. In theory, possible, but I suspect challenging. Anyone done it?

[happy-kat]

The 32mm gso is cheaper and quite a nice it is my lowest power.

[ronin]

Actually I meant to simply look at (find) the double double, didn't think of going to see all 4 of them More like split into 2 stop there and also know where it is for the huge beast of a scope and the set of Naglers you get next. :grin:

Problem I am never sure how much anyone knows. When you say look at the double double do you know what and where, or assume I have made a typo.

[procky1845]

Thanks for all the responses guys.

Bearing in mind the eyepieces that I currently have for my scope, if I were to purchase a new eyepiece what size would you go for?

Currently I probably get the most out of the 20mm and 12.5mm so my instant reaction was to go for something around 15mm so that I wasn't doubling up my existing pieces but would I just be better replacing the 20mm one as I think this is probably the one I use the most currently?

Cheers.

[rowan46]

The general rule on eyepieces is not to change unless you see the limitations otherwise you're spending all the time. if you are happy with the 20mm  keep it till you're not . Get  an upgrade on an eyepiece that you use but are unhappy  with. if you are happy with all of them then get a new magnification

[esxste]

If you go for a quality eyepiece, you'll *probably* find it much better than the stock EP's, and will want to use it more than the others. With that in mind, if you find you enjoy the views through your 20mm, I would suggest going for an EP of similar power that gives you a much wider field of view. Or Perhaps look at a lower power, say 25mm. 

[happy-kat]

What is the bduget range for an eyepeice?

[procky1845]

What is the bduget range for an eyepeice?

I don't particularly have a budget in mind but I would prefer not to spend too much given that I know the scope itself is a bit limited but if it means improvement I'm happy to spend a bit more. I think the Vixen NPL's would be more or less as much as I'd be willing to spend at this point until I've had a look through one and I'm convinced it'll make a reasonable difference.

As mentioned I wouldn't want to invest too much, as I'd probably be better spending the money on a new scope later in the year, but this is really about making the most of the scope I have until I get to that point.

[happy-kat]

They have good reviews on firstlightoptics and are cheaper than the maxvision by half for the 15mm

[procky1845]

Ok, I've just been crunching some rough numbers based on the information given in this post. http://stargazerslounge.com/topic/43171-eyepieces-the-very-least-you-need/

The two telescopes I've been looking at for potentially later in the year are either a Skywatcher Explorer 130p, or preferably (if budget allows) a Skywatcher Explorer 150p.

Seben (Recommended EP's based on the post above)

Focal Ratio = f9 (700 / 76)

High Power = 6.75 mm (x103)

Medium High Power = 11.25mm (x62)

Medium Low Power = 18mm (x39)

Low Power = 27mm (x26)

Skywatcher Explorer 130p

Focal Ratio = f/5 (650 / 130)

High Power/Medium High Power = 7.5mm & 2x Barlow (x172 & x86)

Medium Low Power = 18mm (x36)

Low Power = 25mm (x26)

Skywatcher Explorer 150p

Focal Ratio = f/5 (750 / 150)

High Power/Medium High Power = 7.5mm & 2x Barlow (x200 & x100)

Medium Low Power = 18mm (x41)

Low Power = 25mm (x30)

What occurred to me is that the 3 EP's I already have (6mm, 12.5mm & 20mm) kind of satisfy the High, Medium-High and Medium-Low powers for my current scope. So I'm now thinking if I go with a 25mm it would probably serve as a low for my current scope and would also be suitable as a low power for either of the two scopes above should I go for one of those later on so I might give that a go for the sake of 35 quid.