The Big Boys - Andromeda & Triangulum

[O-RICH]

So decided to face north for a change. Ive heard a lot about andromeda so i decided to set myself a challenge in finding it. Stellarium helped me find Cassiopeia and then Mirach (slight yellow tint?). North of this was a massive DSO. I was slightly disappointed however though as i could not see the arms of the galaxy, it just looked like a big Messier without anything distinguishable. I looked at it through a super wide 24mm and a 16mm, even barlowed and it didnt really reveal much. Am i foolish for looking at it during the summer? I tried to find the Triangulum galaxy but i couldn't see it. Im guessing both these objects are strictly autumn/winter only? I also noticed the heart & soul nebulas were nearby and again, couldn't find them. Any tips for finding wonderful DSO's in and around Cassiopeia?

[swamp thing]

Hi

You've picked some pretty tough targets to hunt for there.

Yes, these targets are better in autumn but don't think they'll be easy.

The andromeda galaxy will appear as an oval smudge through any telescope until you get to skies dark enough to show otherwise. This galaxy will show incredible detail visually, but, your sky must be a dark one. I've heard people say it looks like a grey smudge even through 16" scopes. My answer.....your sky wasn't dark enough then.because if your sky is dark enough this is quite clearly a spiral galaxy.

The Triangulum spiral is even tougher. This is going to require dark skies to just see it. From LP locations this galaxy melts into the background becoming invisible. You must be somewhere very dark to get a good view of this object. Like andromeda if your sky is dark this is a stunning galaxy that shows its spiral arms very nicely.

My tip for observing these objects is kinda obvious from above. Go somewhere really dark but leave your socks at home cause they'll be blown off by the views

Clear skies

[AndyWB]

What Steve says matches my experience. Andromeda always looked just big and fuzzy until I got out into real darkness - and then the dust lanes in it were very evident.

I'd also say, it's huge! I can't fit it in all the field of view with my 10" scope.

[O-RICH]

Nearly there Andy:

[Daniel-K]

m31 needs dark skys and low power to fully enjoy the view. on my lat observing outing to a dark site in mid wales we had 1.5 hours of astronomical darkness and even then the arms in m31 where just about visible in the 31mm EP.

[ronin]

Yep, that's Andromeda.

Pretty underwhelming isn't it?

No matter how many times it is said it isn't going to knock your socks off.

It is so indistinct that many do not even see it.

Bit like Mars, every couple of years Mars arrives and people head out to peer at the Martians and to watch them dismantle the latest probe we have sent. Then get disappointed, trouble is by the next time everyone has forgoten or given up and it all starts over again. I really dislike Mars, not overly keen on Andromeda either. But I have a 70mm scope that with a 20mm or 25mm eyepiece will get all of Andromeda in.

Generally people do not even see Andromeda when looking directly at it in a scope, it is too big to fit in a scope. It is 6 times bigger then the moon and so rarely fits in the view of a scope. All you get is the central blobby bit, so what most do to see more is go for greater magnification and even less of it in view.

[Bukko]

Hi, O-Rich,

The best view I have had of Andromeda is through my OO 8x50 finder. I got to see the whole thing, even in somewhat light polluted skies, so probably the best way to see it would be through binos.

M33 is another tough target and as said above, you need to get to a dark site to have a chance. Short focal length  scopes with a low f-nimber, combined with a WA EP should give you a fair chanace of being impressed; alternatively, take out a second mortguage and join the imaging community !!

Good luck chasing down these objects.

Gordon.

[Knight of Clear Skies]

It's not easy to see the spiral structure of Andromeda. It wasn't until the first photographs of it were taken by Isaac Roberts in the late 19th century that it was found to be a spiral.

[John]

I find my best views of both of these galaxies come on really dark nights with my smallest aperture scope which, although just 102mm in aperture, shows a 3.8 degree true field with my 31mm Nagler eyepiece. Even then the outer reaches of M31 (the Andromeda Galaxy) extend beyond the edges of the field of view. 

M33 (the Triangulum Galaxy) is much less distinct although it's not difficult to find even with 8x40 binoculars when it has risen higher enough to be away from the Bristol light pollution.

Despite the draw of the above objects I still feel that my favourite galaxies for visual observing are M81 and M82 in Ursa Major 

[O-RICH]

Despite the draw of the above objects I still feel that my favourite galaxies for visual observing are M81 and M82 in Ursa Major 

thats my next challenge set :thumbup:

[itmo]

You might still be able to spot the supernova. Dunno if an 8" is enough for that. 

[John]

You might still be able to spot the supernova. Dunno if an 8" is enough for that. 

Unfortunately it's faded to magnitude 14 now so beyond most amateur scopes. It was good at it's peak though (Jan - March) and could be picked up with my smaller scopes back then. Brightest SN I've observed and in an easy to find galaxy too   

[todd8137]

Never seem Triangulum from the back garden and I have decent skies,

Pat

[O-RICH]

will try and find m81 & m82 tonight, will give up on Triangulum for now.

[Charic]

So decided to face north for a change. Ive heard a lot about andromeda so i decided to set myself a challenge in finding it. Stellarium helped me find Cassiopeia and then Mirach (slight yellow tint?). North of this was a massive DSO. I was slightly disappointed however though as i could not see the arms of the galaxy, it just looked like a big Messier without anything distinguishable. I looked at it through a super wide 24mm and a 16mm, even barlowed and it didnt really reveal much. Am i foolish for looking at it during the summer? I tried to find the Triangulum galaxy but i couldn't see it. Im guessing both these objects are strictly autumn/winter only? I also noticed the heart & soul nebulas were nearby and again, couldn't find them. Any tips for finding wonderful DSO's in and around Cassiopeia?

Polaris is in my Zenith, so this area is my primary target area. The Great Bear/Plough and Cassiopeia just run circles all Year round right above my head. Its easier to lie on my back to view the Pole star, and everything else, but doing so puts the Skyliner focuser out of reach.

My first view of M31 Andromeda was spectacular in-as-much  that I could just see this tiny,VERY TINY, little grey blob or veil of grey mist. Nothing like what I expected from the so-called brilliant 8" 200P reflector telescope. But why? Light pollution and seeing conditions. I then took myself, scope and car to a darker position some 5 miles equidistant from any Towns, ie darker skies, and I was blown away using the supplied SW'super' 25mm eyepiece. Have I got a different telescope, NO, just better conditions. In fact M31 so filled my field of view, I had to buy another EP, hence the addition of my Panaview 32mm. I have yet to return to that actual site in the middle of no-where to re-check on a dark Moonless night, but I just know the experience is going to be worth it. 

[O-RICH]

will try and find m81 & m82 tonight, will give up on Triangulum for now.

fail, couldn't find them. Found m15 instead. I feel lost facing north 

[swamp thing]

Keep trying buddy you'll get there.

M15 great globular, one of my favourites. Super compact object that you can really wind up the power when trying to resolve it.

Congrats on finding this wonderful cluster.

Don't worry the old galaxies will come.

Clear skies.

[pyrasanth]

The pictures we see in all the astronomy publications of these magnificent objects hit you with a bit of a reality check when you see the objects live with your own telescope.

I've used the lighter summer nights to work on polar aligning & plate solving so I can get my telescope ready for the big winter observing session. I'm looking forward to the darker nights. My telescope now has a pointing accuracy of 9.6 arc secs and is within a fraction of a degree of the refractive pole. This is now so accurate that I can slew to one of Jupiter's moons & have it drop directly in the center of a 12.5mm eyepiece at F10 on the Celestron Edge.

I plan to try & capture some of the more elusive objects using either an Atik 490EX for the smaller planetary type nebula or the Hyperstar to go after the larger sprawling galaxies. When I was setting up the polar alignment I took a 480 second exposure of M81 & M82 and was impressed with the detail I captured considering it was a pretty average evening of visibility. I'm really looking forward to getting stuck into some imaging but the setup of the telescope has taken much longer than I thought with the very poor weather. Spend time getting your telescope setup correctly & reap the rewards later.

Clear skies to you all.

[oldpink]

I can barely make out Andromeda under my heavily LP sky
only by imaging it can I acctually see it and even then hard to make out the dust lanes or arms

[O-RICH]

I'm working my way through "Making every photon count" and I'm starting to understand why cameras can see what we can't. I find the matrix filter things fascinating, with the different colour combinations available from the RGB channels. At least i now know how the pics you see in magazines and books were captured

[rwilkey]

Hi O-Rich, you mentioned briefly the nebulae in Cass, there are many interesting ones, not least the Heart and Soul located to the left of the constellation, for these you will need a UHC or OIII filter to make them come to life.  Just thought I would come in here as no-one else has come back to you about these.  The Bubble Nebula is also an intersting one off to the right.  Gamma Cass is also interesting, being centred above one of the main stars (the top point of the centre of the 'W').