Finder scope an accessory?!

[emadmoussa]

Whenever you buy a new scope, there's always a mention of ''extra accessories''...which very often include a finder scope, very bad eyepieces and bonus stuff like a cooling fan..you name it. Of course many refractors, especially the apo ones, come totally stripped of any extras.

If you think about it, the finder scope is a necessary piece of the telescope...technically  part and parcel of the overall usage of a scope. You can't really use a scope properly without a finder scope...so, should it really considered part of the accessories....?! Isn't it part of the scope itself...?! Or is it just a marketing scheme...?!

Makes you wonder...

[Psychobilly]

Perhaps by not including one you are free to  purchase and fit your own particular favourite type from the many that are available... and haven't paid for something that you might not be too your liking...

Peter...

[Jim Steele]

I agree, most budget scopes come with some accesories to get you started but once you go down the APO route your probably considered a 'enthusiast' which means that they can charge you more.

That said, I looked into a Lyra F11 but chose the Tal100RS since it comes with a finder

Ben

[michael.h.f.wilkinson]

I do not think my 80mm triplet needs a finder. After all, it has a 5.3 deg true FOV with the Nagler 31T5, and a whopping 6.3 deg with the 42mm LVW. So not all scopes need a finder

[Zakalwe]

If you think about it, the finder scope is a necessary piece of the telescope...technically  part and parcel of the overall usage of a scope. You can't really use a scope properly without a finder scope...so, should it really considered part of the accessories....?! Isn't it part of the scope itself...?! Or is it just a marketing scheme...?!

Not really, no. I'm an imager only, so the finderscope is an unnecessary addition. I would prefer to be able to specify no finder and no focuser, rather than have a poorly made one in the box.

[emadmoussa]

Ah sorry, should've   mentioned only visual...

[Zakalwe]

Ah sorry, should've I mentioned only visual...

So if I buy a scope I then have to pay for stuff thats not used?  The dealer doesn't care if you are going to use it for visual or imaging.

I like the Borg approach...you pay for what you want, and not for a load of unnecessary, poorly made components that end up in a drawer. My Lunt solarscope infuriated me. It could only be specified with a rubbish GSO focuser or a hugely expensive Feathertouch (think 25% of the cost of the scope). The FT focuser is overkill for a scope that will only carry the blocking filter and a camera and the OE GSO focuser was barely fit for purpose. I'd much rather have the option of buying the OTA only and then specifying a suitable focuser.

[emadmoussa]

Who's stopping you getting the accessories you want? I personally tend to upgrade finders...all my scopes came with decent enough finder scopes, but I usually upgraded to right angled. The point being, finder scopes shouldn't be considered part of the extras, if you want a better one..then go for it. Same principle applies to everything.

The focuser I had on my 10" GSO Dobsonian was pretty good actually. Not exactly Moonlite, but better than the Skywatcher versions. Which GSO scope did you have?

Also, for 80mm or less scopes I don't think an optical finder is a necessity either. You can do with a RDF or without a finder if you have a big field of view

[IanWatkins]

Never usually bother using a finder for visual myself, it's cheating

Cheers

Ian

[Zakalwe]

Who's stopping you getting the accessories you want? I personally tend to upgrade finders...all my scopes came with decent enough finder scopes, but I usually upgraded to right angled. The point being, finder scopes shouldn't be considered part of the extras, if you want a better one..then go for it. Same principle applies to everything.

The focuser I had on my 10" GSO Dobsonian was pretty good actually. Not exactly Moonlite, but better than the Skywatcher versions. Which GSO scope did you have?

Nothing is stopping me. The point is that I resented having to have one in the overall purchase prices in the full knowledge that I'll junk it for a better one.  I'd much rather the option of not having one in the price and being able to specify what I want, rather than what the manufacturer thinks that I want.

In answer to your OP, I personally do consider the FS to be an accessory and the scope can be used without one (my DSO imaging rig hasn't got a FS fitted. It's in the drawer along with a collection of OE focusers ).

[emadmoussa]

Nothing is stopping me. The point is that I resented having to have one in the overall purchase prices in the full knowledge that I'll junk it for a better one.  I'd much rather the option of not having one in the price and being able to specify what I want, rather than what the manufacturer thinks that I want.

In answer to your OP, I personally do consider the FS to be an accessory and the scope can be used without one (my DSO imaging rig hasn't got a FS fitted. It's in the drawer along with a collection of OE focusers ).

I was OK with a Telrad only until I hit 12" or more aperture...especially if you're talking a limited field of view.

The GSO and Skywatcher 9x50 finder scopes are not bad optically...mechanically on the other hand, nah..not impressive.

[John]

I was OK with a Telrad only until I hit 12" or more aperture...especially if you're talking a limited field of view.

The GSO and Skywatcher 9x50 finder scopes are not bad optically...mechanically on the other hand, nah..not impressive.

I've found the GSO and Skywatcher RACI finders pretty good quality - I've got a couple of them and, combined with my Rigel Quikfinder plus a low power wide angle eyepiece in the scope, they seem to do an excellent job to me on all the scopes I've used them on over the years. The Telrad is an excellent device as well.

The trick is to know the true field of view that the finders and the reticules give and how those match the true fields your eyepieces deliver. With that information to hand and some decent finder charts I reckon you can find practically anything. 

Some of the largest scopes around often still have a Telrad somewhere on them, even in professional observatories !

On the subject of accessories, you will find that the higher quality and priced scopes tend to supply little or nothing in the way of accessories because the manufacturers know that those buying them will either already have their preferred accessories or will source those separately. 

[ronin]

Is getting a finder scope or not an astro event now ? :grin:

[emadmoussa]

I found with the 12" that the combination of a Telrad/Rigel and optical finder was handy....if anything, a larger aperture optical finder seems a logical approach for 14" or 16".

[emadmoussa]

Is getting a finder scope or not an astro event now ? :grin:

Darn...I always do that. :D .. should've gone to Specsaver..

[RichM63]

Hmmm, finder scopes,I think the problem may stem from how the dealer obtains the complete package from the factory.

Looking at signatures tells me that you guys are all in the advanced category and will probably not buy whole scope package deals, wheareas the beginner or intermediate purchaser will want to hit the ground running and be able to use the kit from the off.

Of course the package purchaser will as they progress, naturally seek to upgrade items or move over to more specialized kit.

Best,

Rich

[John]

Is getting a finder scope or not an astro event now ? :grin:

Good point - I've moved it to the Astro Lounge 

[emadmoussa]

Good point - I've moved it to the Astro Lounge 

Thanks, John.

[Moonshane]

if they reduced the cost of a scope by the manufacturing cost of the finder then I'd be happier. I never use straight finders and would generally sell one if a scope I bought came with one. I consider anything other than the standard OTA includng focuser as an accessory personally. if you don't consider finders an accessory as it won't be as usable without one then what about eyepieces?

[emadmoussa]

I already have a bunch of them...

[Scott]

Nothing is stopping me. The point is that I resented having to have one in the overall purchase prices in the full knowledge that I'll junk it for a better one.  I'd much rather the option of not having one in the price and being able to specify what I want, rather than what the manufacturer thinks that I want.

In answer to your OP, I personally do consider the FS to be an accessory and the scope can be used without one (my DSO imaging rig hasn't got a FS fitted. It's in the drawer along with a collection of OE focusers ).

Don't think of it as a finder.. think of it as a small guide scope . I do get your point though as I don't much use them for imaging either...I doubt that the prices would drop a great deal by removing them from the lower end scopes though.

[Scott]

Hmmm, finder scopes,I think the problem may stem from how the dealer obtains the complete package from the factory.

Looking at signatures tells me that you guys are all in the advanced category and will probably not buy whole scope package deals, wheareas the beginner or intermediate purchaser will want to hit the ground running and be able to use the kit from the off.

Of course the package purchaser will as they progress, naturally seek to upgrade items or move over to more specialized kit.

Best,

Rich

that's a good call regarding beginners wanting the complete package rich. It's hard enough trying to figure out what scope/mount to get for your very first (and we all hope it's gonna be forever) without the added stress of finders/focusers/e.p.'s etc.

[Pig]

When I bought my CPC I didn't want all the accessories that came with it ( finder, diagonal eyepieces et.. ) and asked if I didn't have them would the scope be cheaper, I was told no   I thought it was a tad cheeky by Celestron. It isn't that I didn't need the accessories its just that they were poorer quality than the OTA. However, I did manage to sell them all.

Then I bought the Equinox and you get nothing with it other than the OTA a case and a focus adapter. I also thought that was a bit miserly .

I think sometimes we are a bit fickle and the OEM's cant win

Its a tough call to make but I do feel finderscopes and diagonals are not accessories.

[John]

Perhaps there ought to be a "pick and mix" approach so the base price gets the tube and then you add the accessories you want from a list of optional extras ?

Pretty much the approach that Orion Optics take.

Difficult when you are new to the hobby to know what is essential and what is nice to have though, as the many "what accessories ?" threads we get on here testify. 

[gooseholla]

Had I of been presented with options when buying my scope, I'd of been so confused and lost! I am glad each of my scopes has come with a finder, as none of them were compatible with each other base size wise.

I'd rather have something in there to get you going. I'd rather be able to line up a scope and use it then get a scope as a newbie and be like "how do I align it... oh, more money you say... right...."