Galaxy / nebula hunting

[Wick]

Hi all,
Bought a 200p a few months back, with the standard 10 and 25mm, 32mm plossl and 2x barlow. Also bought a TMB 6mm off ebay (cheap'ish) and have turn left at orion. The shopping list for more kit is growing but per good advice on here, will not press button until I've been at it for a while. (cheshire likely to be first purchase so I can check colli and bst 18mm after that, then maybe LP and UHC filters?)

The few times I have got out when seeing good, have had great views of the current planets, split a few doubles, Orion Nebula (with a hint of green, maybe?), and andromeda. (Was really pleased at meeting the challenge of finding it)

I'm mainly interested in the challenge of spotting galaxy's and nebulas, not so much with clusters, I understand they will be fuzzy grey blobs as opposed to Hubble type views.

*** Had a few hours at it, but can't find m81, 82, Leo triple etc. query is should I be able to see them (using 32mm)? Or what would be your suggested targets? ***

I'm fairly rural, with some LP, have good views south, east and straight up. West is ok'ish (LP), house is in the way of low alts north. I am 20 mins from really dark sites but want to spot more from here first before jumping in car. I think collimation ok from what I've seen to date and star test?

I am doing battle with the local council over a sodium lamp at the front of the house that bounces off a willow at the back, I may win but it'll take a while.

Sorry about waffling but thanks for any help in advance.

Cheers
Wick

[Daniel-K]

Wick have you got a telrad? and this will help loads http://www.bookdepository.co.uk/book/9781931559317?redirected=true&viewCountry=UK&selectCurrency=GBP&gclid=CN3PqrPirb0CFdShtAod-3oAPA

your 32mm should be fine for spotting galaxies, well the brighter ones anyway. i use a telrad and the above book to find all of my objects. im like a marine sniper with my telrad hunting down the faint fuzzy's is great fun. 81&82 can still be trick for experienced observers.

you would probably only get 2 of the trio tough as the other is quite faint and sometimes i cant even see it in my 14" from my garden.

[Wick]

Wick have you got a telrad? and this will help loads http://www.bookdepository.co.uk/book/9781931559317?redirected=true&viewCountry=UK&selectCurrency=GBP&gclid=CN3PqrPirb0CFdShtAod-3oAPA

your 32mm should be fine for spotting galaxies, well the brighter ones anyway. i use a telrad and the above book to find all of my objects. im like a marine sniper with my telrad hunting down the faint fuzzy's is great fun. 81&82 can still be trick for experienced observers.

you would probably only get 2 of the trio tough as the other is quite faint and sometimes i cant even see it in my 14" from my garden.

[Langy]

M81 and M82 I found very hard to find. After a couple of attempts I used my Regal to put me in the rough area and then sweep the sky until I found items that didn't look like stars. So that took me three attempts and the sweep took about 15 minutes.

You can see in the link below of a picture I took Monday night with my EOS 300D and 75mm lens. I wasn;t looking to get it in the EP this time as I knew roughly where it was, but used the shorter FL to make sure I got it. To my amazement it was almost in the center of the image. o I could have zoomed in to the top end of 300mm and probably still have got it.

The image just shows how much of a needle in a haystack finding these can be. Keep at it you will find it eventually. Andromeda I found first time but after that it took me ages. Now if I use my bins I can find it in seconds. It's all about learning the sky.

http://nova.astrometry.net/image/530729

[Wick]

Hi Dan,

Just have the standard finder scope at the mo, the scope does have a setting circle, and I have a wixey but not tried them to any great degree yet. I enjoy the star hopping aspect, and obviously making life harder??? Have looked at a telrad but holding back at any shopping for a while until I figured out what I really want/need.

As I said I do have Turn left at orion, and also have quite a few of the free apps on my ipad, pocket universe tends to be the favourite at the mo.

[Daniel-K]

the setting circles an wixey are are good combo just roughly point north and get the coordinates from an app and it should put you in the right spot, a quick sweep and you should be on you object. dont rule out clusters though there are some stunning globs and planetary nebulas

[Wick]

Thanks Langy, photo is really useful, pretty sure I was in the right area and was probably looking right at them, will have another crack if clear tonight.

I do find once I've seen something, it's so much easier to find it next time around as you know what you are looking for, been back to andromeda a few times, but too low now as behind neighbours house.

[Paul73]

Wick

Star Hopping : Don't worry. It just takes a bit of practice. And it is really satisfying when you get it right. I take Stellarium out with me on the iPad so that I have proper zoomable maps to aid the hopping. Yes, it may not be great for the night vision, even in red mode, but being able to blow things up so that they look the same as the view in my finder is a real plus.

The main thing is to be sure of your starting star. Choose one with a distinct pattern of close neighbours even if it is a bit further from the ultimate target.

Targets: Yes, you should be able to see the targets that you mention. Paul is right, M81/82 aren't the easiest to find as they haven't got anything distinctive close to. Well worth searching out though.

Have a Crack at the Eskimo Nebula in Gemini. Put Wasat in the right edge of your finder. You will see a pair of brightish stars pointing back to Wasat. Now put the brighter one about halfway from the center to the edge of the finder at about 2 o'clock. Have a look through your 32mm and there it is !! (Hopefully a small fuzzy blob with a bright inner). Then up the magnification from there (guessing that you are observing mid evening)

Galaxy wise. Have a go at m51 an easy hop from the end star of Ursa Major's pan handle. Or, try the Black Eye in Coma Berenices.

Good luck

Paul

[acey]

My suggestion would be a good atlas, e.g. S&T Pocket Atlas. You want to be able to get the main scope aiming at exactly the right low-power field - you don't want to be sweeping around the general area in the hope that the target will come into view. M81/82 isn't the easiest star-hop - which is why a good map (or finder chart) will be your best help.

The "Leo trio" is easy in an 8" as long as the sky is dark enough. A dark sky is one in which the Milky Way can be seen naked-eye, anything else is light polluted to some degree. You should manage the trio in a mildly light polluted sky but don't expect anything spectacular. M81/82 is easy even in quite badly light-polluted conditions.

The darkest part of the sky is right overhead, but that can be tricky with a dob. All targets are highest (therefore best seen) when they are due south, so concentrate your efforts around the meridian (the south-north line on the sky).

Don't worry too much about a single streetlight - just shield yourself from it. Worry about the combined effect of all the streetlights in an area several square miles around you, because that's the light that's bouncing back at you from water vapour above.

[AndyWB]

As usual, Acey's advice is good. I just wanted to add that although M81/82 can be a tricky hop, they are visible from a heavily light polluted town centre.  Personally, though, I just imagine a diagonal line through the end of the plough, and go the same distance beyond,  then move over a bit, and there it is. Note that in this image the handle of the plough is leading off the bottom of the chart, and in this case the 'move over a bit' would be a tiny nudge down and left.

[cotterless45]

it's good to have a scan around with a 32/25mm ep. Anything non stellar is going be interesting. Add a bit more magnification to get x60-x80 and you should enjoy the spring galaxies. I'd kick off with M81/82 , go across to M94 ( just up a bit between Cor corioli and Chara] and then onto the Leo triplet[ half way down his back leg]. When you get used to seeing fuzz, go back to M51, the Whirpool to see what you can find.

Nick.

[Wick]

Cheers guys, thanks for the help and advice. Hope to put it into practice in the next session, but afraid that could be a while away looking at the weather forecast.

[AlexB67]

While a good chart is a must, both methods have merit of just jumping and finding around a bit with a low power eyepieces/finder scope /rigel or using the chart.  I often find it faster using the former, so whatever suits the purpose IMHO  .

To find M81/M82 I always use the method of drawing a line through the plough and extending out with a low power eyepiece, it does not take long to locate them at all. I find personally anyway, no complex hopping needed. 

Only if I am doubt and not sure what my target is, or when I can't find it with a reasonably quick hop  using main stars and constellations the chart become a must. They also become a must when you are in a complex area with lots of stars and galaxies where it becomes more like looking for a needle in  haystack or more complex targets in general that do not stand out in an obvious way, in that case a careful study of the chart is a must to rationalise what you see in the eyepiece and finder and confirm your find so you are sure.

In the end of the day the torch interferes wit night vision too a bit, something I try to avoid if not needed. Rationalising what you see in the finder and relate it to the chart also takes time.  Most of the easy targets  I learned with stellarium and go outside and find them easily enough not having to resort to a chart at all.  Most of the messiers and cladwells to date I found I do not need a chart with me to find them again once I have seen them a few times.

Practice makes perfect and the rigel is a perfect sniper weapon with a good aim to get very close to the targets anyway a  lot of the time once practiced. 

My two cents anyway.

[AlexB67]

I forgot to mention I also find studying sketches before or after or both, or bring a printout of some with  me if needed, depending on complexity, a very useful way to confirm.

[gbarnett]

Hi,

I've found a Telrad has helped me with placement. I'm using it and the finderscope as I still like the finderscope view. I have found some things just by scanning around with a low power. I found the ring nebula by accident this way and it does give a slight feeling like finding buried treasure! As you said you are quite near dark sites I would make a list of things you can find and then compare the views at the dark site to give you an idea if filters may be worthwhile in the future.

I've only seen 2 of the Leo triplet too. They were very faint wisps. I've been struggling with M51 but I think it's my backyard letting me down. I saw M3 for the 1st time a few days ago and it was a quite nice glob so I would recommend that one if the rain ever stops again.

[C7tsj]

Found m81/m82 last night but first time I tried during the SN it took a good 15-20mins. Same with anything like this, difficult the first time and then easier as you repeat.

The fun part is finding them first time though. Good luck.

[messiermark]

hello dan

try this website www.astronomylogs.com ,click on finder charts and download the Messier pdf charts, there are lots of other finder charts available including Caldwell and both Herschel 400s 

[MoosBros]

It took me a while for M81 and M82 . There is a lot of empty space in that area...  Now I stop by to see them  just because I can....They,<and many others> were nothing like what I was expecting. Nothing like the pictures in Stellarium..Mostly just dim little fuzzy  whisps of smoke...It helped me to understand a lot about what to even look for once I found them........There aren't enough guide stars where I am to hop with a TELRAD, so the HALO setup is working for me...I also discovered that the 30mm ep was not the best for locating them either...It showed too much skyglow for the dim fuzzies to stand out...An 18mm works ok to darken the background and enhance contrast, but the 9mm seems to be the best at my location...

It feels really good to find those kinds of things once you do.... Happy hunting !!

[granty515]

I do enjoy a good hunt or a star hop for an object but do sometimes need my wixey digital angle finder (20 quid well spent) and stellarium....

[Charic]

Wick..........M31 Andromeda from my garden is little more than a grey smudge of light using my 25mm, its the core of the galaxy. I then went to a much darker site, and although I still had skyglow at about 5 miles equidistant from where I was observing from. M31 now filled my 25mm. It was quite a sight. For that reason alone, I purchased the Panaview 32mm to allow me to capture more of the Galaxy in the viewfinder for my next visit to a darker site. I have a new authorised site that has easy access by car, but the Moon spoilt my last trip there, but the clouds in Orion were more than I've ever seen before using the 32mm. And finally, at about 40 mins drive away, I can get to Dark-Dark skies, no lights from any horizon. I can't wait till the right moment for that trip. But alas, will soon be longer Days and shorter nights, in fact, doesn't really get dark this far North during the Summer Months,

My point here, get to that darker sky site, before you buy anything else. Low power wide angle is better for DSO, as is the darkest sites.

[mapstar]

I can pick M81/82 out in a 9x50 finder scope at a slightly light polluted site quite easily.

Also nearby is NGC3077 another great find.