Video astronomy Vs eyepiece

[hoops86]

Some fantastic replies to this guys! Thank you all very much! I really appreciate the time and effort you guys have put into your stories and opinions here! Loving the reasons for and against each option! And I really enjoy reading your stories of how it all started for each of you  Its very very interesting!

For me having been doing this hobby for like 7-8 months there have been countless WOW moments that have just stunned me! Number 1 on the list just has to be the first time I seen Jupiter and its moons through a cheap 70mm frac! Totally hooked on this hobby after that!

However I would say a not too distant second would be seeing M13 then M57 through the Samsung! I was just totally blown away by the amount of detail shown on my screen! I have invested a decent amount of cash into this hobby so far (on my 4^th scope lol) and I feel that the 40 quid I spent on the samsung is just incredible value for money considering the satisfaction it brings!

Don’t get me wrong I LOVE just popping an eyepiece in and roaming around the sky! My own little port-hole into the abyss! And lets face it… its much much easier and more convenient to use eyepieces! Much less things that can go wrong!

I guess its all situational! And totally down to what you want to get out of a viewing session! And very dependent on the objects you want to view!

Would have been interesting if I had posted this in the eyepiece section to get the views of people that haven’t used video before. Maybe im wrong but I would bet that a lot just have no idea just how cheap and rewarding it can be.

[DoctorD]

Hi Dragonman

I agree with you completely - my reference to poor mans imaging was a comment on how video astronomy is seen by those who do not understand that the primary purpose of video astronomy is viewing not recording of the image.

It is not my view!

Clear skies

Paul

[shirva]

Great comments ken....I preach what your saying I often go on other sections of the forum and promote video for the older or visually impared astronomer talking about giving up because the mk1eyeballs letting them down and observing from a wheel chair would be more comfortable viewing from a screen, , yes you lose a bit of detail and a bit of sharpness on video compared to dslr and ccd capture but I've seen some cracking images on here the quality is growing all the time and still feel we have a way to travel. ...video is an undiscovered jem in astronomy.. just look at how imagining was to visual observers ::: taboo::;; now look at the number of imagers there are, this may be down to the prices dropping to the mere expensive rather than a big pay out from the lotto to afford the kit to do it...the more we promote its advantages I'm Shure the forum here will treble in a year to come....Davy

[Dragon Man]

Hi Dragonman

I agree with you completely - my reference to poor mans imaging was a comment on how video astronomy is seen by those who do not understand that the primary purpose of video astronomy is viewing not recording of the image.

It is not my view!

Clear skies

Paul

Yes Paul, I was aware it wasn't your own personal view 

I used it as an example. And I have heard it said too. 

Little do they know the fun they are missing out on.

Yes, 'fun'.

I couldn't say that about other forms of Astronomy, even though I enjoy them.

[Dragon Man]

Thanks Davy.

Yes, I have noticed over the last 5 years or so that at our Astronomy camps the percentage of Visual Astronomers has dropped to around 10% and the Imaging crew has risen sharply to 90%.

And then there's me, the only Video Astronomer 

[James]

Yes, I have noticed over the last 5 years or so that at our Astronomy camps the percentage of Visual Astronomers has dropped to around 10% and the Imaging crew has risen sharply to 90%.

And then there's me, the only Video Astronomer 

I'v noticed a similar phenomenon...

I suspect part of the lack of video astronomers is a general lack of knowledge about it. I'm looking to get into video astronomy and within seconds of looking online hit the proverbial wall of acronyms etc that I don't know about. For visual or imaging I'm comfortable with the jargon but for video there's a whole new world of things to think about.

If you look on pretty much any forum out there you can get as much info as you'd like about your options for 'eyepiece' astronomy or for CCD imaging... the learning curve just seems steeper for me in terms of Video astronomy.

But, when I got into imaging a few years ago that seemed daunting too....

With the gradual decline in quality of our skies here in the UK I suspect that over time VA will be come more popular.

James

[Dragon Man]

Just think James, pretty soon you may have to start stocking AstroVideo cameras and accessories in the shop as popularity grows.

The Jargon is pretty basic.

Integration, Frame Grabber, BNC & AV, and probably only a few others. 

[Macavity]

Whatever you say - however carefully you weigh your words, someone will misunderstand? 

Like I never see typos, in your own stuff! I am guilty of minor "chumming the waters" tho! 

Certainly not "poor man's imaging" (Though can be cheaper than some imager setups!) lol.

I understand (agree) that perhaps the "spirit" of Video Astronomy is real-time on screen viewing! Personally, I try to make crawling "imager friendly" statements - Noting the commonalities. The idea that VA can be a useful intro. to techniques like "stacking", flats, darks. Massey & Quirk arguably devote the majority of their book to stuff like that... and the *many* alternative uses for VA.

If you're feeling really brave, aknowledge the limitations of VA? Why do we use a multiplicity of short exposures (as opposed to a few long ones!) - Actually not THAT sensible re. signal / noise? If you get a real smart cookie in the audience, they might cheerfully point this out. <G> A good answer is maybe that VA doesn't need heavy duty EQ mounts, autoguiding etc. We just need but 10s of steadiness?

I cannot see it happening here (people tend to be less formal!) but I was wryly amused (depressed?) by another (video sub) forum which only allowed(?) real-time screenshots. Strictly no post-processing permitted! lol. But if "one click" in software can turn an indifferent snapshot into something that may SURPRISE even the accomplished imager? I claim no special insight, re. the "Levels" trick. I seem to remember I actually picked up that tip randomly from a "classical" imager's website...

I do admit my first instinct was to (stack and) "process" Everything! I am a little more restrained these days.

P.S. Perspectives do change! As a bit of shameless selling (If inappropriate, mods please edit!) I am currently offering a 5 x 1.25" filter wheel on the classified. I am seriously considering a colour (video) camera. I ran out of patience doing LRGB(dark) at 20 mins each! Might mention the Helical Focusser too... Such things are not capable of supporting SLRs, but might help fine focus smaller videocams.

[RikM]

I have never tried proper video astronomy, but I do use my guide camera (Mono QHY5) as a sort of electronic finder sometimes and can absolutely see the point of doing it that way.

I don't believe that any aspect of astronomy is 'better' or 'pointless', they are just different is all. I have spent a packet on eyepieces and could have spent far less on VA and 'seen' more. I think that for me I want to experience seeing something, rather than just see something, if you know what I mean? It is not the view of the object that entices, it is the fact that I can actually see it.

I certainly don't think of VA as 'poor man's imaging', rather 'assisted observing' if I can use that term? It just doesn't excite me quite the same way as eyeballing something. I can watch anything on TV, I personally don't get the same connection to the object I'm observing but fully understand that that is just me. Others feel very differently and good for them. There can be no argument when it comes to matters of taste!

I would very much like to get a video camera though, because I can see how it is much easier to share the view, with others (family and public events). I need to read up on it, but would probably go with a mono camera over colour. I think similar to where James is coming from, I would like to try and match the quality of view that I get from eyepieces. Low noise, high contrast, sharp images are more important to me than sheer extent of nebulosity or colour. I would rather see less but better.

[Mark at Beaufort]

At one of the SGL star parties I was with John and we were star hopping from one galaxy to another. Phil, who was the next camping place, asked what we were observing. I told him the Whale and the Hockey Stick galaxies. A few minutes later he called us over to show the galaxies on the screen. I was so amazed at the quality of the screen image.

I am still thinking of trying VA at some stage although all my mounts are manual alt/az so getting a motorised mount will add to the cost.

Mark

[Dragon Man]

 . . .  I was wryly amused (depressed?) by another (video sub) forum which only allowed(?) real-time screenshots. Strictly no post-processing permitted! lol. But if "one click" in software can turn an indifferent snapshot into something that may SURPRISE even the accomplished imager? 

Yes Chris, I was one of the members in that 'other' Forum.

When the Video Section was started about 4 years ago the Admin stipulated the condition of 'No Processed Imaging' or they would close it. 

So we tried to help keep it non-post processed, especially in the gallery. When I was a Moderator in that section (up until a year ago) I did my best to keep it alive, but new members came along and arguments started over the rules and I thought to myself 'I didn't volunteer to be a referee'. 

I returned as a Non-Moderator and things went fairly smoothly until recently when a vendor war started. 

Many of us have left in disgust and now I have found here, and I prefer this forums attitude, where anything Video is fine. Real-time screenshots, processed, stacked whatever.

No Camera brand arguments, no put-downs.

For that I congratulate you all 

That other Forum's Video section still may be shut down as it ventures further from the Admins stringent original theme.

[hoops86]

Just think James, pretty soon you may have to start stocking AstroVideo cameras and accessories in the shop as popularity grows.

Ken thats a good point!

James - have you guys at FLO ever discussed this before? Got any reason why you dont sell them?

Also just a random point.... when i first joined SGL and got talking to Davy he told me to come to the Video section...several times... i had a quick look for it but couldnt find it lol. After looking for ages i finaly found it right at the bottom of the page!

I vote move the video section out of the 'Science' section and into the observing one for maybe a tiny bit more visability!

[James]

The Jargon is pretty basic.

Integration, Frame Grabber, BNC & AV, and probably only a few others. 

Hmmm... all jargon is basic once you know it

For my sins I'm a Mac user so areas where there isn't software etc for the Mac I tend to not have delved into yet, as far as I can tell VA is very Windows based if you want to use a laptop to control things...  in this case I may have to just swallow my pride somewhat and load up the Windows emulator...

James - have you guys at FLO ever discussed this before? Got any reason why you dont sell them?

It's as much as case of not enough hours in the day as anything else  Also, life is easier all round when we stock/sell/deal with things we're personally familiar with..

Also just a random point.... when i first joined SGL and got talking to Davy he told me to come to the Video section...several times... i had a quick look for it but couldnt find it lol. After looking for ages i finaly found it right at the bottom of the page!

 

I vote move the video section out of the 'Science' section and into the observing one for maybe a tiny bit more visability! 

That's one you should raise with the Admins but careful what you wish for - you may end up being buried in the Observing section somewhere

James

[shirva]

Aye Chris we will leave it here..closest Ile get to being a scientist lol...ken your right about this forum its a growing happy family and everyone joins In..its a hobby and its to make you feel happy and relaxed. .

Relaxed aye right to..lol..James don't need a laptop at all if you use a cctv dvr...hard drive stores as avi files and a monitor can be used for viewing and files can be transferred by usb and possibly lan port. ...Davy

[hoops86]

hahaha i just dont see how its scientific tho! When i think 'science' i think about partical physics, chemistry, biology that kind of stuff. When i think about VA i think 'technology'

I couldnt agree more about this forum tho.... ive learned sooooo much since i joined SGL! Everyone just seems so happy to help out tards like me get to grips with this insanly complex hobby!

I learn more and more everyday about this amazing hobby and thats totally down to this forum and the vast knowledge of all you helpful dudes out there!

Back on topic - I think we need to get James and the boys from FLO hooked on VA!

[Dragon Man]

For my sins I'm a Mac user so areas where there isn't software etc for the Mac I tend to not have delved into yet, as far as I can tell VA is very Windows based if you want to use a laptop to control things...  in this case I may have to just swallow my pride somewhat and load up the Windows emulator...

James

There is software called Camtwist that you can control AstroVideo cameras in Mac's    

See here:   http://camtwiststudio.com/

[shirva]

+1 for flo...helped me out wae my eq3/2 mount prob...great bunch of guys. ..Davy

[PeterW]

Universe is mainly red and white ... H alpha.... ;-) Finding an object and seeing it with your eye is what does it for some people. I tend to think that looking at a screen is no better than googling for it.... Though if I get polar alignment sorted I reserve the right to change my mind. Video needs a fast scope, reasonable polar alignment and the right camera (plenty don't integrate for long enough!), so is a minority endeavour. Imagers will typically see a few objects a year, no more than a couple in a night.... Video observers (like visual) will nail dozens and be able to compare and contrast.

Short CCD images (nytecam...) are yet another tool in the box. Have to say that at least there are another 5 of "you" in Aus... The nearest person who observes like me lives across the "pond"!

All that matters is you get the enjoyment... Anything that stops you giving up due to all the (carcinogenic) light is worth using!

Cheers

Peter