Giro mounts - the wonderful babies!!

[emadmoussa]

Sorry, I meant a review on your Argo Navis

[Stu]

Ah yes, will do!! Might sort it whilst at PSP

Stu

[emadmoussa]

I'm just wondering how solid the saddles are for heavy load. They seem worryingly small ... they clamp very well on the dovetail, but I'm not sure if this is psychological, but I find it difficult to trust them with my big frac.

Then, you come across crazy folks pushing the mount  over the limit and they don't seem to worry...Like this guy who regularly mounts his Orion 10" reflector - which is basically heavier, fatter and wider than my 6" refractor. He says as long as the balance is right, the mount should cope well with heavy weights. Explore Scientific US themselves say that during exhibitions and outreaches they often mounted their AR 127mm on one side and AR 152mm on the other without a problem. Would you take their word?! You probably wouldn't be surprised at me being concerned about my refractor ending up in pieces on the patio :D

[John]

The clamps on one of my Giro-type mounts don't look as well engineered as yours do but I've used 10-12kg refractors and newtonians on it and, so far, nothings dropped off.

Yours appear to use a pressure pad approach rather than the grub screws pressing on the dovetail bar which is a pretty good way to mount a scope as the pressure is more evenly distributed along the dovetail bar.

If you wanted more security I guess you might be able to fit an ADM clamp in place of your standard ones as you have access to the 2 hex bolts holding it on to the axis. I have one of these on one side of my SkyTee 2:

http://www.firstlightoptics.com/adm-guidescope-rings-and-systems/adm-vixen-style-saddle.html

I've seen mounting arrangements in shows though that you could say are "for display only". You would never use them for actually observing !. 

[emadmoussa]

humm...that's good to know. Thanks, John!

As for the ADM saddle, how far apart are the screws, and will they fit?

An image describes dimensions better I guess:

[John]

I've just measured my ADM clamp, which is the one designed for the SkyTee 2. It has 4 mounting holes, the inner pair (which are the ones I use) are 35mm between the centres of the bolts and the outer pair are 85mm but those are not used on the Skytee.

Your clamps look pretty good too me though. I'd not be worried if I was using those to be honest.

[emadmoussa]

I've just measured my ADM clamp, which is the one designed for the SkyTee 2. It has 4 mounting holes, the inner pair (which are the ones I use) are 35mm between the centres of the bolts and the outer pair are 85mm but those are not used on the Skytee.

Your clamps look pretty good too me though. I'd not be worried if I was using those to be honest.

Thanks John.

I was OK until last night. I over tightened the clamp on the 6" frac dovetail, but when I loosened it - I did that all the way down - but when I wanted to tighten again the screw-pressure bit got stuck. I nudged it back and forth and somehow came back to normal. That made me wonder about the strength of these saddles. But like you say...they're probably OK. Once tightened they hold the scope pretty well.

I think I will invest in 2 things: a vixen-style stopper clamp and also a Baader zoom eyepiece (The last thing I want to do in the dark is re-balance the scope every time I wanted to change the eyepiece).

[Mark at Beaufort]

I have been using alt/az mounts for visual astronomy for many years. Although I have had a CG5 eq mount I never really liked using it for visual. Until recently I have been using the Skywatcher SkyTee version one which has been very good. I added an extension pillar and here is a photo with a Meade 6" f/8 frac. This is a very similar mount to the Giro and Emad I think you have got a great mount.

Recently I decided I wanted to upgrade to the SkyTee 2 mainly for the slow motion controls when I use my 180 Mak/Cass at high magnifications. I know from the SGL star parties that the saddles on the SkyTee 2 were rather poor and when I bought the mount I knew that I would need to upgrade them. However, I had bought, over the years, these saddles from Sky's the Limit which I have now fitted to the SkyTee 2 mount. I am very happy with the security that they provide. Link - http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Universal-Dovetail-Platform-telescope-female-black-/380449674412?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_3&hash=item58949154ac

Mark

[emadmoussa]

Yes, it's almost identical to the giro iii. I've been looking online, but nobody but me is worried about the saddles

[emadmoussa]

Will this vixen clamp fit http://www.firstlightoptics.com/adm-guidescope-rings-and-systems/adm_vdpa_adaptor.html ?

[StevieDvd]

The saddle SkyTee users get from FLO are usually these they are drilled for the SkyTee but check your clamp measurements, they or the standard ones may fit. they are longer as well so help with balancing.

Steve

[emadmoussa]

OK, tonight I might have the chance to use the mount with two telescopes on board at the same time. Not quite keen on the idea, it's just a test run. I'm more of one scope..focus..get things done kind of person

I decided to give the mount some harsh training last night to make sure it can take the weight well. You'll notice in the photos that I threw some cushions under the OTA just in case ...I know this sounds a bit paranoid, but considering the silly strange accident that I tend to get, that was just a precautionary measure. So far, It seems to hold pretty well.

Strange enough, when you have the 6" on without any counterweights the movement seems only ''slightly'' less smooth than with counterweights. I think it's all about experimenting and finding best method.

I had a little problem of the saddle getting stuck whenever I tried to mount the big refractor. Nudging and flipping with my fingers seemed to occasionally solve the problem, but it takes ages to get it right. I guess the best thing is to keep the dovetail and rings mounted and just removed the OTA when not in use.

Ah, well, we'll see how it goes.

[John]

Strange enough, when you have the 6" on without any counterweights the movement seems only ''slightly'' less smooth than with counterweights. I think it's all about experimenting and finding best method.

Thats a nice looking setup now   

I find that I don't need the counter weights to equal the weight of the tube on the other side to get smooth movements, they just need to offset the weight a bit. So a 5kg counterweight was enough to make the mount move really smoothly with a 10kg scope on the other side. As you say, you need to experiment 

[emadmoussa]

Indeed. Counterweight will just ensure correct gyroscopic balance   The 6" frac (with tube, finder, baader zoom) weighs 12.3Kg, and there's 10Kg counterweight units on the other side.  I have to say it's easier to mount a heavy scope on an equatorial mount..but with the giro once done it's a much easier drive.

[emadmoussa]

Few hours outside last night, verdict: yep, the mount can cope easily with the 12.3Kg refractor on one side and only 5Kg counterweights on the other as well as 12.3Kg on one side and 6.4Kg (102ED and accessories) on the other.

The only issue, which I'm sure is common for all tripods, was that when you fully extend the tripod legs they begin to occupy a significant amount of the patio floor, increasing the chances of accidentally stumbling upon or hitting them while changing scope position. And guess what? Yes, I knocked them twice... Having use a pillar mount for almost a year rendered me oblivious of what tripod were actually like Now, back on the dance floor.

The other thing is, comparing the 102ED with the 6inch achro didn't show much of a difference in the details resolved. I guess 2 inch difference won't show dramatic difference, will they?!

[A McEwan]

I think the 2" difference between the ED and the achro is a tricky one.

I had an ED80 in the past alongside a 102mm f5 achro, and the ED80 gave the "better" views. There was a difference on number of stars resolved, etc, but I found the ED view to be more pleasing to the eye at the time.

Between 102 and 150mm I'd expect the difference to show a larger difference in resolvable detail, with the major difference being on planetary detail and on galaxies.

Ant

[emadmoussa]

The TS Individual 152/900 gave just slightly higher resolution on  M81 and M82. However, the 102ED showed a hint of colour and a little bit of 3D effect.

On M57, the TS Individual and the 102ED showed very similar results, including number of stars resolved and luminosity.  Similar results with M13, M56 and doubles.

On Jupiter the 6" refactor won, and being an improved optics refractor the TS Individual showed very little chromatic aberration and very crisp details.

Doubles were very pleasing in both telescopes, but the yellow & red seemed to stand out better in the 102ED.

[Stardust]

Have you found your big scope ok in those saddles? I only ask as TS seemed to think I should upgrade to their longer saddle for my 127. I have to admit that there doesn't seem to be as much metal left to the edges as I'd like. 

[emadmoussa]

Have you found your big scope ok in those saddles? I only ask as TS seemed to think I should upgrade to their longer saddle for my 127. I have to admit that there doesn't seem to be as much metal left to the edges as I'd like

I actually mounted the big scope on this mount once. It was an extended session though, and didn't have any problems whatsoever. The only problem I have with one of the saddle is that it gets stuck half way though tightening...a little bit of gentle knocking and the screw gets aligned properly. I don't believe it's a fault in the engineering, this saddle in particular was already broken when I first received the mount and it seems that they fixed it, but not perfectly well.

[dobbie]

hi emadmoussa I to have a az/alt mount its the altair sabre mount http://www.altairastro.com/product.php?productid=16589

its a dream for visual use and I can use it for all my scopes ,what I like most is putting my 200pds on it and using it dob style I much prefer that set up than

putting it on my eq5 , although I still use the eq5 for goto ( when time permits) the simplicity of the az set up takes some beating , I made a 360 degree ring to put around the mount and use a wixey and I can find objects faster than the goto mount   and its so smooth tracking by hand even a high power is a doddle, so its +1 for the alt/az mounts ,, dobbie .

[John]

hi emadmoussa I to have a az/alt mount its the altair sabre mount http://www.altairastro.com/product.php?productid=16589

its a dream for visual use and I can use it for all my scopes ,what I like most is putting my 200pds on it and using it dob style I much prefer that set up than

putting it on my eq5 , although I still use the eq5 for goto ( when time permits) the simplicity of the az set up takes some beating , I made a 360 degree ring to put around the mount and use a wixey and I can find objects faster than the goto mount   and its so smooth tracking by hand even a high power is a doddle, so its +1 for the alt/az mounts ,, dobbie .

I used to put my 10" Orion Optics newtonian on my Giro-type mount. It's a great setup and puts the eyepiece just where you want it to avoid "dob stoop"