Can someone console me?

[ollypenrice]

I'm sure you'll enjoy it but I do agree with John all the way. What is different about a Newt on a GEM? The fact that the EP comes out at the side. As the mount goes to different positions it will end up pointing the EP upwards or downwards and then you'll need to roll the tube in its rings, which is a big hassle. Then there's the meridian flip which will send the Go To on all sorts of long journeys when observing near the south.

The GEM is designed to solve two problems. It eliminates field rotation for photography and it allows tracking via a single clock drive motor. You are not doing photography and IT control of two motors in alt-azimuth mode is now so cheap and simple that there is no need to avoid it. In eliminating field rotation it introduces eyepiece rotation, however!

But, if you fancy a GEM then you fancy a GEM and that's that. Have lots of fun.

Olly

[NotSoSuperNova]

When setting up for the night, start with the focuser pointing vertically upward when the scope is in the home position, pointing at Polaris.

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD using chubby fingers. Sorry.

Russ, that seems far too sensible!!! Does that cancel out the argument everyone has about the funky positions you could find yourself in by setting up alignment when you rock up to a viewing session? It sounds like it. You never have to roll the OTA in its rings either right?

I think that on this occasion, the prospect of a learning curve with a similar profile to a brick wall has me with sitting here with a wry grin. Something that we can all surely agree on, the dob is the safe option yeah?

[fondofchips]

I'm in the other camp, much as I like the mucho aperture and ease of operation of my Dob, I miss the sheer accuracy of the EQ GOTO on nights when I just want to see stuff.

Two top EQ tips, that address some of the issues above.

1. Assemble and balance the scope in daylight. Set the dovetail and rings centrally in the puck on the top of the mount. Score a line in the dovetail at the edge of the puck to facilitate finding this point accurately in the dark. Take the time to find the point of balance in RA with both counterweights positioned together. Wrap tape around the counterbalance bar to aid finding this exact point in the dark. Do a similar thing for the tube and the tube rings when balancing I the Dec axis. Ease of EQ setup is all about aiding repeatability.

1a. When assembling for the evening, attach the dovetail and rings securely first and set them horizontal so the rings flip open toward you. You can then just drop the OTA into the bottom rings and flip the open part over the top. It cannot fall out. There is no faffing around, trying to juggle and support the weight of the OTA with one hand, whilst securing the dovetail mounting bolt with the other, because the dovetail is already secure.

2. This one is so obvious, I don't get why people don't do it. When setting up for the night, start with the focuser pointing vertically upward when the scope is in the home position, pointing at Polaris. This will mean that you need to stand on a chair to align accurately, but as you only ever point at Polaris during alignment, this is the only time the focuser will be in this position. The huge benefit is that the worst position the finder can be in for any other location, is horizontal and that can only happen if you're looking due south at the horizon. Doing this I never found a position that couldn't be matched by my ironing chair for comfortable viewing and it never gets as low as my Dob when pointing at a similar declination.

Enjoy.

Russell

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD using chubby fingers. Sorry.

As a newbie the comment here about setting up in daylight really runs true, I set up in the dark on my second viewing & wasted more time trying to sort out the mess I got myself in by putting the scope on backwards on the EQ mount.

Lost time and the cloud soon rolled in, have taken to storing the scope & mount parked in the correct position so that I only have to put the mount outside & then the scope, then I cannot repeat the set up mistake.

Learning curve is much steeper in the dark.

Waiting for the weather to allow me a third session - Doh!

Thanks Russ.will for sharing this information with us.

[Gina]

What I say is "Nothing ventured - nothing gained". Try it and see I'm into imaging and not visual so maybe not the best person to ask though I have done some visual observing in the early days - with a small newt on an EQ mount. I have never used a Dob. I know it can be rather nerve-racking when you've bought something expensive and not really sure if you've made the right choice - been there, done that, got the T shirt as they say I'm always going out-on-a-limb and trying new things and love it. Don't worry - try it and good luck

[Stargazer_00]

Actually another easy way to set up the scope is to leave the dovetail and rings permanently on the mount and just take the OTA out of the rings instead. It's far easier to put a big scope in the huge cradle offered by the pre attached rings than it is to attach a OTA with rings and dovetail to a pre setup mount.

Food for thought.

EDIT, just realised this was already offered as a solution. Point stands though - this is the easy way to make the scope manageable, i wouldnt do anything else.

[Gina]

Good idea

[Moonshane]

personally, I am in the dob crowd but if you don't get on with the EQ, it's possible to 'convert' it to alt az with a simple and reversible process

[James]

When I got back into astronomy in 2006 after a "living in light polluted hell" break I went back in with the C10N-GT. Whilst I can star hop, I prefer goto and whilst I can nudge I prefer tracking. The scope is a beauty and has given me some amazing nights observing. Sure, the 10" OTA is a heavy one for the mount and on windy nights I've suffered a bit but the CG5 if set up with just a little care is an amazingly accurate mount and the 10" OTA gives some fantastic views (just wait until later in the summer when the Veil Nebula becomes visible...

I've found the occasional odd eyepiece position, easily solved by rotating the tube a little or by standing on a box - I'm 5' 9", if you are taller it will be less of a problem for you. Should you ever slide down the slippery slope into imaging (I swore I never would, but...) you can take the 10" OTA off and put a little refractor onto the CG5 for the images...

James

[Tinker1947]

If its only visual then a plastic 1 metre measuring stick and a large Jubilee clip (E-Bay) placed round the top tube ring, slack off both rings and spin the tube until the EP is in a comfy position, this will unbalance the scope but not enough to worry about if its used for AP then you be stuck with where ever the EP/Camara ends up......

[Galilean]

I have Dob and Newt on EQ. Not used the Dob for over a year and actually hate the clumsiness of it compared to the technical beauty of the EQ

Couldn´t agree more - hand-nudged Alt-Az mounts are just so 50s end of the pier. Give me the elegace of an EQ mount ANY time.

[Galilean]

ELEGANCE - where´s the %&/()=? EDIT button?

[John]

Couldn´t agree more - hand-nudged Alt-Az mounts are just so 50s end of the pier. Give me the elegace of an EQ mount ANY time.

Thats alienated a large slice of the SGL visual observing population I would think !

You are welcome to your preferences of course but don't knock the choices others make

[russ.will]

Russ, that seems far too sensible!!! Does that cancel out the argument everyone has about the funky positions you could find yourself in by setting up alignment when you rock up to a viewing session? It sounds like it. You never have to roll the OTA in its rings either right?

Correct. The EP will never be pointing lower than horizontal as it will meridian flip before lower positions are reached.

I too, had applied the huge jubilee clip around plastic trunking (in my case) to allow me to rotate the scope in the rings without slippage. After realising the vertical-finder-at-home position, I never needed to rotate the tube again. However, I do have a good ironing chair!

Russell

[russ.will]

I'm sure you'll enjoy it but I do agree with John all the way. What is different about a Newt on a GEM? The fact that the EP comes out at the side. As the mount goes to different positions it will end up pointing the EP upwards or downwards and then you'll need to roll the tube in its rings, which is a big hassle. Then there's the meridian flip which will send the Go To on all sorts of long journeys when observing near the south.

The GEM is designed to solve two problems. It eliminates field rotation for photography and it allows tracking via a single clock drive motor. You are not doing photography and IT control of two motors in alt-azimuth mode is now so cheap and simple that there is no need to avoid it. In eliminating field rotation it introduces eyepiece rotation, however!

But, if you fancy a GEM then you fancy a GEM and that's that. Have lots of fun.

Olly

The one thing you are ignoring is that if you like your GOTO, an EQ mount is a damn site faster than a GOTO Dob, even accounting for a meridian flip. I think I already explained why the EP need not be in weird positions.

Russell

[RikM]

The one thing you are ignoring is that if you like your GOTO, an EQ mount is a damn site faster than a GOTO Dob, even accounting for a meridian flip. I think I already explained why the EP need not be in weird positions.

Russell

Even with the focuser in line with the RA axis I can't reach it. It is definitely the best position to have it if you don't want to turn the tube but a 10" is just too big to reach without a step.

[ollypenrice]

The one thing you are ignoring is that if you like your GOTO, an EQ mount is a damn site faster than a GOTO Dob, even accounting for a meridian flip. I think I already explained why the EP need not be in weird positions.

Russell

It depends how big you are and how big the scope is. I'm not very big and your solution wouldn't work for me on larger Newts. I can't see it working on the northern galaxies for me either, really, and I don't like the idea of observing 'over' the scope. Next time I get the chance I'll give it a try though.

Slew speed wouldn't worry me. I don't dash about the sky, but I take your point.

Hand nudging is, to me, a nice antidote to all that jackassing around with electronics which is a necessary evil of imaging! I love the relationship I have with the sky when I quietly move to my next object and follow it. Poking away at all those buttons intrudes on my serenity and sometimes makes me feel as if I'm trying to tie my shoelaces with gloves on. Being electronics free is just nice sometimes, just you and the sky. Lovely.

Olly

[russ.will]

Even with the focuser in line with the RA axis I can't reach it. It is definitely the best position to have it if you don't want to turn the tube but a 10" is just too big to reach without a step.

It depends how big you are and how big the scope is. I'm not very big and your solution wouldn't work for me on larger Newts. I can't see it working on the northern galaxies for me either, really, and I don't like the idea of observing 'over' the scope. Next time I get the chance I'll give it a try though.

Olly

I often forget that my low northern view is a bit restricted, and so I don't spend that much time in that part of the sky. I'm 1.85m in my stocking feet so I recall that when I did, I used a sturdy two step stool to reach the EP of my 200p. It was preferable to breaking my neck on a downward facing EP at low southern declinations and I got used to positioning the stool so I could stand naturally, without strain

I can't say I disagree about the simplicity of manual nudging. In fact the GOTO of the Dob, it's accuracy and the limitations it places on manual operation, hamstring my enjoyment of it. I've been drawing up plans for a DIY manual/travel Dob based on it's mirror set. Once that's completed, I'll use the funds from it's sale to buy some decent mirrors, because I have my suspitions about those too.

To keep my grab and goto bases covered, I've just ordered a Bresser AR127L on EXOS 2 Goto (AKA a Meade AR5 LXD75 in new clothes). There's room for both approaches in my visual life, although I'm worried that the re-appearance of an EQ mount on my lawn will cause me to start attaching cameras to the blessed thing and I bought the Dob to put an end to that....

Russell

[nephilim]

I often forget that my low northern view is a bit restricted, and so I don't spend that much time in that part of the sky. I'm 1.85m in my stocking feet so I recall that when I did, I used a sturdy two step stool to reach the EP of my 200p. It was preferable to breaking my neck on a downward facing EP at low southern declinations and I got used to positioning the stool so I could stand naturally, without strain

I can't say I disagree about the simplicity of manual nudging. In fact the GOTO of the Dob, it's accuracy and the limitations it places on manual operation, hamstring my enjoyment of it. I've been drawing up plans for a DIY manual/travel Dob based on it's mirror set. Once that's completed, I'll use the funds from it's sale to buy some decent mirrors, because I have my suspitions about those too.

To keep my grab and goto bases covered, I've just ordered a Bresser AR127L on EXOS 2 Goto (AKA a Meade AR5 LXD75 in new clothes). There's room for both approaches in my visual life, although I'm worried that the re-appearance of an EQ mount on my lawn will cause me to start attaching cameras to the blessed thing and I bought the Dob to put an end to that....

Russell

Unfortunatley, EQ mounts seem to have this annoying habit of been able to 'sniff out' any DSLR or webcam within a 30mile radius, if you ever mislay your cameras all you need to do is take the mount for a walk near to where you last had it & hey-presto, camera located.

Steve