Frustrated messier beginner

[Khw]

Hi everyone, i would love to start observing messiers , I have several apps and stellarium to help me but I just don't seem to be very successful. I've bagged Orion and andromeda but I just can't seem to find anything else. I will keep at it but it would be nice to get a glimpse of something now and then , Kevin

[Naemeth]

Try M44, M36, M37, M38.

M36 and M38 are within 5 main stars of Auriga, and M37 is just to the left.

M44 should be fairly easy, locate Castor and Pollux (Top stars of Gemini, very bright) and go diagonally left.

HTH

[swamp thing]

Hi Kevin

How are you getting on with the finder?

I ask this as using your finder is fundemental to helping you locate stuff.

Once you can learn to interpret what your finder shows you, you will open up the skies for your scope.

[JamesF]

M45 should be pretty obvious at the moment too, as long as you get out early.

For the smaller clusters and galaxies though it's much trickier if you're working alone. Seeing if you can get along to a local astro club's observing session or a star party might well give you a better feel for what you're doing. Otherwise it's easy not to see things because you don't realise what you're looking at.

James

[cotterless45]

With a 200 Dob you should easily be able to see all the available Messiers and most deep sky objects. The minimum you 'll need is either a red dot finder or a Telrad. I couldn't find a thing with finder scope when I started out.

Telrad charts downloaded from the web, The Pocket Sky Atlas and Turn Left at Orion also help.

Best of all is to get in a group or post on the forums for anyone locally, you'll learn so much and there's a gripping lot to learn.

March is the month when most Messiers are out , so get cracking!

Nick.

[Aronnax]

Hi Khw. The Messiers you've looked at so far are quite prominent (as well as M45 - The Pleiades). So when you are hunting for other objects, think slightly smaller than the ones you've seen so far. Also make sure you have as dark adapted eyes as possible, as some of these objects are very faint especially if you have a bit of cloud/light pollution (and this seems to be the norm at the moment!).

I too have the 200p Dob, and it has shown me all the Messiers I've set out to find so far (although sometimes it's taken me a couple of attempts to find them). If you can get along to a local club and get someone to show you a couple of the Messier objects, then you will know the sort of thing you are looking for when you are observing at home... this helped me a lot to know what to look out for.

In terms of some to aim for, I started on the lovely open clusters in Gemini and Auriga (M35, M36, M37, M38). These are relatively easy to find, and show as a noticeably richer cluster of stars in the 25mm EP that comes with the 200p.

My first galaxies were M81 and M82 in Ursa Major. These are unmistakeable once you've found them as they make a lovely pair of galaxies in the same field of view through the EP. Also, as Leo is becoming more prominent at a reasonable hour, you could go for the Leo Triplet (M65, M66, and NGC 3628). M65 and M66 make for a nice pair, with the fainter NGC 3628 being a bit harder to pin down.

The way I tend to find these objects is by identifying some prominent stars in the star and pointing the scope with the widest field, lowest magnification EP, in approximately the right region for the object. This is rarely spot on, and I just do a little search of the area, which usually reveals something. It is sometimes tricky to find objects, especially when the sky is not very good, or the object is very faint.

Persevere though, and look for sketches of the objects online to get an idea of what you can expect to see (as opposed to the gorgeous, but visually unobtainable Hubble images!). When you've seen a couple, you'll know what to expect, and it will get easier, I promise! I hope this helps a little.

Clear skies

[Aronnax]

...The way I tend to find these objects is by identifying some prominent stars in the star constellation and pointing the scope ...

Sorry, should have read constellation, not star. Why so many posts before you can edit!?!

Clear skies

[MadAlbert]

+1 for some sort of reflex sight/finder - Telrad and Rigel spring to mind.

[michael.h.f.wilkinson]

I like using right-angled correct-image (RACI) finders. Make life a lot easier for me (that and the fact that it is a 16x70, which means many Messiers can be seen directly in the finder)

[RMcCallum]

Use the ocular function on Stellarium, although not quite perfect, it gives you what you can expect to see around your target.

[Khw]

Many thanks for all your replies . I promise to take on board all you have said . Being very tall I do struggle with the finder and might buy a raci finder which should help, also might invest in a telrad. Aronnax many thanks for taking so much time in your reply , I will persevere !! Once again thanks guys , kev

[gravityguy]

I found my first proper messiers last night on my first proper outing with the 250px dob. I am a complete beginner too but found M65 and M66 by locking onto chertan in the constellation of Leo (I only learnt that constellation last night after viewing it for ages on stellarium and starrynight pro). Once I had done that I just brought the scope down slowly with my 25mm ep and eventually saw the 2 faint fuzzy patches in the sky. I couldn't find the third in the triplet but I was very happy. Hope that helps. I also found andromeda for the first time last night as well

[RMcCallum]

I found my first proper messiers last night on my first proper outing with the 250px dob. I am a complete beginner too but found M65 and M66 by locking onto chertan in the constellation of Leo (I only learnt that constellation last night after viewing it for ages on stellarium and starrynight pro). Once I had done that I just brought the scope down slowly with my 25mm ep and eventually saw the 2 faint fuzzy patches in the sky. I couldn't find the third in the triplet but I was very happy. Hope that helps. I also found andromeda for the first time last night as well

Its always great getting two DSO in the same field of view. Try M97 and M108 then M81 and M82 in your 25mm, I got them in my 130, you should easily get them in your 250.

[Aronnax]

... I couldn't find the third in the triplet but I was very happy. ...

The third in the triplet (NGC 3628) is definitely fainter, and appears more elongated than either of the brighter pair. It is just over one-and-a-half times the distance between the main pair away from the two you found. Depending on your EP you may not get all three in the FOV together without having some pushed to the edges where the view drops off (in the standard 25mm EP).

Good sketch (from dark skies) here: http://www.deepskywatch.com/Astrosketches/m65-m66-sketch.html I found last night that the third galaxy appeared fainter relatively than in the sketch, presumably due to the ubiquitous light pollution I have from my garden!

Happy hunting

[SwampStar]

Best bit of advice I had...DON'T EXPECT HUBBLE!

For example, The Crab Nebula (Messier 1) is, quite frankly, pathetic through your average scope.

So, yes...find the best way you can of being in the right part of the sky, use a wide angle with not too much power (I've seen all mine through the supplied 25mm) and keep looking. Eventually your eyes will pick out that fuzzy blob. I sometimes tap my scope to make sure the fuzz stays still. Once you know what you're looking for (especially with the galaxies) they're much easier to find.

Just don't expect Hubble!

[Daniel-K]

getting a good sky map is a big help http://www.bookdepository.co.uk/book/9781931559317?redirected=true&gclid=CKvvhaa-gbYCFc3HtAod_mkA2A i find this one the most helpful when using my telrad to find DSO'S heres a link to some telrad charts http://www.solarius.net/Pages/Articles/dbArticle.aspx?artid=messier_finders its gives you a position in relation to the sky were to put your telrad which if aligned well with your scope can be invaluable i would be lost with out mine. i have tried the RACI 9x50 finders but i cant get use to looking through them. HTH

Dan

[Khw]

Thanks Dan for the two links in your post . I already have the pocket sky atlas , I think I will invest in a telrad as the telrad charts seem such a god idea . Cheers kev

[Daniel-K]

some easy DSO's are in auriga m37 m 36 m38, if you just stick your lowest power EP in and just scan about in the center your sure to pic up m36 and m38, m37 is a tad out of the inside of auriga

[RMcCallum]

M37, M36, M38 are great OC's, I too second having a goosey goosey gander at them.

[dick_dangerous]

M13 in Hercules is very, very easy from memory. I think it rises quite late in the evening at the moment though. I had similar frustrations with trying to find M27. I had to make do with the one between Southampton and Portsmouth...

DD

[Daniel-K]

if your tall I think people buy water butts turned upside down and place there scopes on them cant remember were I have seen it but makes observing alot more comfortable .

[Chihlidog]

M13 in Hercules is very, very easy from memory. I think it rises quite late in the evening at the moment though. I had similar frustrations with trying to find M27. I had to make do with the one between Southampton and Portsmouth...

DD

Sorry to bump an older thread but I bagged M13 for the first time a few weeks ago and it IS easy. M42 and M45 are exceptions rather than the rule. Those guys are insanely easy. Theyre like Searchlights vs. a small candle. So dont think all Messiers look like that. M13 is the easiest of the rest of them that I have bagged so far - yes, even easier for me than M31. I live in some badly polluted skies and M13 is direct vision in my 4.5 starblast. M92 to the west is not quite as easy but if you can get M13 then you should be able to get that one as well.

They're faint. Very faint. Once you get, say, M13, imagine that its a VERY easy object to see. Then you have a better mental idea of how faint the rest of them are going to be. It took me a long time to understand what I was seeing with faint DSOs but lately I've been popping them off like mad. M81/82, M13, M92, M33 all very recent observations for me. My suggestion is to go for M33 next. Easy to find and easy to see, but not nearly like M42 and M45, and thats a great starting point for training your eyes to see the real faint fuzzies.

[Khw]

Thanks for your reply chihlidog , I really want to get into DSOs and will take your advise , many thanks , kev

[crashtestdummy]

i think once you learn the constellations and get more experience then most things are pretty easy to get close to then just a bit of sky scanning which tbh i quite enjoy.my first few months resulted in about 5 messiers and lots of frustration but my last observing session netted me 38 galaxies and 12 messiers.keep the faith and it will all come together

[Mike73]

My suggestion is to go for M33 next. Easy to find and easy to see, but not nearly like M42 and M45, and thats a great starting point for training your eyes to see the real faint fuzzies.

I think you mean M32 - The Andromeda galaxy ...M33 is a very large and faint spiral galaxy with a low surface brightness so I wouldnt class it as an easy Messier object.