Best CCD setup to start with?

[RikM]

... I don't get the bit about LP filters and the CCD and colour filters guys? How does that work and what component "holds" the LP filter please?

You can normally simply screw the 2" light pollution filter onto the front of the nosepiece for the filter wheel.

[RAC]

I want a 460ex now and my 383L for widefields with fast lenses.

[RAC]

Noise is a funny thing. I've seen good pics from all these cameras and ive seen noisy pics from all these cameras too. At the end of the day they all need a few subs and more time is better. I havn't once used darks with my 383L with any shot i've done with it so far.

[Uranium235]

Just to add a third option, the new starlight xpress camera looks very, very nice. Costs a fortune though

http://www.firstligh..._SXVR_H814.html

Small pixels and very high QE. I ran the chip and pixel size through 7dstring and the sampling rate was a very interesting 1.48" p/pixel with a reduced ED80 (510mm). So it would probably work well all the way down to 400mm and below. Though there is not much data available on the chip used, its very new.

[RikM]

On my 150P I would get 2"/pixel at 2x2! with a slightly larger field than with my H9. If I had the money...

[kirkster501]

I am just not sure mono is feasible under the UK skies of late. They are just shocking of late, relentless cloud week after week after week. I don't accept that "they can only get better", theres no proof of that at all and this could be the ways things are with global warming from now on. Just makes me think OSC could be a better choice considering this inescapable Trend. That mono is fundamentally "better" goes without saying. But 50 completed shots versus dozens of incomplete data sets due to weather? Makes me wonder, though I confess I am no expert.

Steve

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Uranium235]

Thats why I have refused to chuck my 1000d, I now use both cameras at the same time to get quick colour from the DSLR, but with all the advantages of low noise CCD luminance (or Ha) data. Its a bit of a halfway house and the processing is a little tricky, but it works well enough.

More flexibility would come from two CCDs, by either shooting luminance and RGB simultaneously, double luminance, or just by shooting Red and Blue (processed as synth green and false luminance). Clear sky is at such a premium at the moment that the more cameras you can chuck at your target, the better.

[Uranium235]

On my 150P I would get 2"/pixel at 2x2! with a slightly larger field than with my H9. If I had the money...

That would be awesome for Ha work, a real hoover.

Hmmm, if I win the lotto tonight I will get one for ya

[cardconvict]

For me i would buy the mono ccd just think of it as a investment, if you started of with the osc ccd and later you wanted to go mono, it would be wasting your money, you could work your way up starting with the mono ccd plus you can still image under a full moon with HA filters like uranium said. You are not a beginner really to astrophotography as you have started with a dslr, so your foot is through the door already. i have never used a ccd and just image with dslr but for me i would start with a mono ccd hope that helps.

[kirkster501]

More flexibility would come from two CCDs,

Indeed. *Two* CCD's though to bypass our weather! I know AP is expensive but gee whiz that's getting silly! But you know, you ARE correct.

[RikM]

So far I have pretty much avoided missing a colour. I have had short data sets, but if I had been using OSC I would have been even shorter due to the lower sensitivity. Ha in the moonlight was a big factor in my choice.

[Uranium235]

Indeed. *Two* CCD's though to bypass our weather! I know AP is expensive but gee whiz that's getting silly! But you know, you ARE correct.

There is reason behind my madness

From the experiences ive had, very fast optics or other bigger (but with lower grade optics) refractor telescopes open up a minefield of problems. Fast newts always appear to need a complete rebuild just to get it on-axis, and the 90mm frac... well that lasted about 1 month before I sent it back. In order to get anything that surpasses the optical standard and speed (when reduced) set by the Skywatcher 80ED you would have to spend close to a grand (before you add in the reducer), which happens to be about the price of an 80ED plus a 2nd hand CCD.

So out of the choice of a posh scope or to double up on what I have (which is tried and trusted), I would choose to double up. The mount could probably take three, but that would be a bit outrageous!

[RikM]

The mount could probably take three, but that would be a bit outrageous!

Well that's your RGB sorted...what are you using for Luminance

[Uranium235]

Well that's your RGB sorted...what are you using for Luminance

Dont tempt me, as it would be one step away from a WASP (which I seriously doubt the NEQ6 could handle)

But with the triple, you could get 6 hours worth of 15min L subs, plus another 2 hours RGB in just four hours - an average nights session. That amount of data should be more than enough to produce something interesting, and it would prove invaluable in the summer where youve only got two or three hours of darkness to play with. Though it would require a fair wedge being spent on mounting three vixen clamps on a losmandy bar (already thought about it...lol).

[Uranium235]

A little bit off the OP, but if you really want to beat the weather:

http://www.myastrosp...ay-October-2012

L Ha RGB, all at the same time

[Tim]

To be honest with you! When I first started out CCD imaging, I went for QHY8L colour CCD which is much better CCD than 314L+, it's a 6 mega-pixel 28mm CCD chip, It's PEC cooling which can cool down to -35 below ampitent! And comes with all the drivers and software in a complete package of £899. My first CCD and definitely a keeper, I've compared to the ATIK they are good cameras but they are expensive, the Atik 383l comes no where near better performance than the QHY8L and that CCD is £1600 mark! Other's will disagree with my opinion, but they cannot argue that £899 is hard to beat!!

I disagree for one. My QHY8 is easily the worst camera I have purchased. I have had a Starlight H9 (same as 314) and an Atik 428ex and 460ex (Currently). I love the Atiks. Everything about the QHY cameras reeks of backroom assembly and half-a-job amateurism to me. Others will disagree. I guess I am lucky enough to be in a position to compare between cameras. I'm not saying I haven't had decent images from mine, just that the camera itself is not as well made and capable as the Atiks. The difference side by side is Kia v Mercedes.

Mono versus colour? I used to think like you, low numbers of clear nights, grab something in colour and get it done in one night....... However the reality is that the OSC cameras are so much less sensitive than the mono cameras that you actually need to spend more than one night in many cases to get a decent image anyway.

It's like this:

A mono camera allows you to take images through narrowband filters under a bright moon, it allows you to take colour photos with filters, or mono images, and it allows you to compensate for poor colour correction in your scopes optics by being able to focus each colour separately. You will get more precise, better focussed, more detailed, deeper images that are in fact, more accurate colourwise when calibrated on a G2V star than a OSC camera. With a Hydrogen Alpha filter the sky reveals a whole new side to it, and you really need a mono camera to get the best out of it. I have a Ha filter for my QHY8 but the results are miserable compared to the mono camera, as you would expect when only 1/4 of each pixel is able to accept Ha emission photons.

A colour camera is a compromise in almost every respect, unless you have access to regular very dark skies on very dark nights. I only use mine at star parties these days where the skies are good and there might only be one night or two for imaging. But you need a telescope with near perfect colour correction to avoid distracting blue or red halos on stars. Normally you need a LP filter with OSC's and the best of these (IDAS) are not cheap, so factor that in.

If I had my time again with cameras, for OSC I would just get a decent DSLR, at least it would have non-astro use as well, and a mono camera with 7 or 8 filters (L,R,G,B, Ha, O3, S2/Hb)

Hope that helps a bit. To decide on the actual camera for you do as Gina suggests and spend time with CCDCalc, see what field of views you like the look of, and try to aim for a sampling rate of 1-3.5 arcsec/pixel or so if you can.

Cheers

Tim

[Tim]

Are we posting our own images?

Here's my mono camera offering (Atik 428ex)

[Uranium235]

If there were a smiley for applause I would be using it now.

Well said Tim

[RikM]

[Tim]

Just for balance, a pic from my QHY8

Of course, there are very few targets as bright and colourful as those in Orion.

http://www.flickr.co...ol-1574153@N21/

[SamAndrew]

Choosing the right CCD is a very tricky task, it's such a big investment you really want to be sure you're picking the right one for you.

The 314 is a great sensor but you get 4x the area which the 383L which I think more than makes up for the slightly worse performance,

If you've got a long FL scope then I think the 383L is the right choice, with a shorter FL scope then you can go with either.

I almost pulled the trigger on a 383L last summer when the noise in my 450D on the warm evenings was really getting to me, but the weather has halted that purchase for now, I'm holding off till after we get a good spell.

[SamAndrew]

Are we posting our own images?

Here's my mono camera offering (Atik 428ex)

was this taken with the Quattro ? that's a stunner

[Sp@ce_d]

Unless you have unlimited funding, no matter what you get will always be a compromise. Is there one camera that will cover it all? No. Is there one scope that will do it all? No. Mount? No. Observing site? No.

So, "What is the best CCD setup to start with" ? Well, it depends. It depends on what you can afford to spend, what targets you want to image & the results you are expecting. In an ideal world if you have lots of funds you can pick your targets and buy the matching scope/CCD to fit it into the FOV but it doesn't always work like that & workarounds such as mosaics may be required. As far as the mono verses OSC debate is concerned, having been down this same road myself as have most of the others here. I would liken the choice to the same as deciding if you wanted a pen knife or a swiss army knife. I certainly wouldn't want to try trimming my nasal hair with the pen knife Mono is so much more flexible, I'd regard a OSC as a second ( or even 3rd) CCD to add to the collection. You already have one anyway in the DSLR!

I'm very... no.. extremely happy that I (for the budget I had) went for my 314L+ Mono. I had considered the QHY8L but realised that I already had a OSC in the 1000D & really all I would gain would be a quieter One Trick Pony.. sry I mean OSC. ...

Invariably the cloud only seems to part when the Moons about these days. I managed to get 14 hours of very usable NB on IC1805 last week on a full moon! I also use a dual shooter setup & tried a few hours with the 1000D at the same time but I doubt I'll salvage much from that.

...I've also never heard anyone that's actually owned & had experience of a 314L+ slag it off either!

[NickK]

I started with a second (at least) hand ATIK 16IC mono. This is now my guide camera.

It's battered and gives a dark image as all sony sensors cameras should be! I then decided on a 383L mono with LRGB and I like it's smaller pixels - allowing more detail but with that it comes at a price of a minimum of 3 second exposure time due to the shutter. The Kodak sensor is far nosier and the entire camera is far more suited to long (5min+, preferably 10 minute+) exposures.

I have a Titan mono too. This has become my odd-job. I use it for lunar, solar and it is just as capable as the 16IC (same chip, updated electronics) for higher speed uncompressed imaging (19.7 fps). However the imaging source cameras at 60+ fps and smaller pixels for solar is another contender.

AP is about time on target.. and in the UK there's very little time. To paraphrase Monty Python - "every photon is sacred" so for me I would be looking at a low noise (sony) mono sensor with setpoint cooling and the pixel resolution to match your scope.

[perfrej]

Tim! Amen

Mono is so much faster, especially with LP playing a part. I like the M26C that I have - when I'm at a really dark sky so that the images are processable. The rest of the time, well, monochrome is the word.

Pixel size is the important factor and please do your math before purchase. You do not want to end up with 0.42"/px or in that neighborhood; horribly over-sampled. Binning? Well, maybe for colour, but why not get it right in the first place? 1-2"/px or so, maybe 3 but not below 1.

/per