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ollypenrice

By ollypenrice
in Discussions - Cameras

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ollypenrice

ollypenrice

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OK, I'm teetering on the very brink. A full frame Atik 11000 to run in the Baby Q. This would put the Horse and Flame and all of M42 onto a single frame without using the focal reducer, so full optical resolution. Or the Eagle and the Swan with room to spare, or the entire Veil complex. But, yikes, they are expensive, these big chip cameras. Talk me into it!!

Olly

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Martin-Devon

Martin-Devon

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I hope you go for it Olly since you'll pave the way on what can be achieved with this type of set-up. I looked at this also when considering my move up from an Atik 314L+, but since I'm still on a learning curve I decided that the jump for me was just too big - but this will not be any problem for you!

There were two other factors that concerned me a little:-

(1) the absolute need for 2" filters, so a complete new set of LRBG and narrowband filters, the Astrodon 50mm (~2") ones come in at between £500-£600 each :eek: - and the Astrodon 50mm LRGB set is around £750, so a full set of 7 new filters here would be over £2,000 on top of the cost of the Atik 11000 - that's serious money! The Baader filters would be cheaper though and you may already have a set of 2" filters, and

(2) the probable need to have additional water cooling on top of the inbuilt system - not a showstopper, and probably simple to rig up but still a bit of a faff.

Putting those points aside though I'm convinced that the images from the Atik 11000 will be stunning. Just one query though - can you just articulate on what areas you think the Atik 11000 score postively above & beyond the previous set-up you had for widefield (the Atik 4000 coupled to a DSLR lens) - do you get a much bigger widefield and is it more detailed/sharper?

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Jessun

Jessun

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It sounds like one of the most versatile and useful setups ever conceived, Olly. Resolution galore for those crops and, well, same lovely resolution for the wide shot. Could you still bin though for RGB speed with that arcsec per pixel? (Coming from a OSC guy so forgive me if that question in daft).

I think that this Atik is THE camera to go for. Sure, there's plenty of biq square chips out there, but at a premium - and a square image will inevitably be rectangular by the time it reaches a screen, and most picture frames - at least in IKEA :grin: . Given that north is always up :p for us 'northeners' the idea of rotating - a cheeky Pyrex comes to mind - seems a blasphemy :grin: anyways!

Go for it Olly!

EDIT: PS I noticed it comes in a OSC too... Something I remotely know how to operate :grin: ! The theory is to one day hunt that delightful Ha from here in Lyon and do some OSC runs down at Les Granges to combine... Meaning you should actually buy the OSC. Or both. :p

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ollypenrice

ollypenrice

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How about a Canon 200mm F/2.8 prime with a KAF8300 chipped camera?

Wider field, faster optics, OSC and much, much cheaper for wider, bigger fields.

Though it's inevitable you'll buy the Atik, anyway ;)

I already have Canon EF200L and its a great lens, but it's not a Takahashi Baby Q and it won't perform for me wide open... And the KAF8300 I've seen to be SO slow in OSC form. It doesn't appeal. One of our regular guests just gave up on his and went fo the mono. And finally I'd need a mono anyway because the widefiled images just need the Ha input. Compare these 'with' and 'without' Ha images from the 200L...

CONE%20TO%20ROSETTE%20OSC-M.jpg

Cone%20Rosette%20200L%20lens-L.jpg

Or better still (this is crazy!)...

1182344610_T6hNK-L.jpg

If you compare Tom's FSQ Cone to Rosette you do see why I'd like to offer ours with the 11 meg chip, and remember this is little more than a thumbnail of the real thing...

http://ollypenrice.s...VQkRTP&lb=1&s=O

My 2OOL is for sale in the ads section, by the way. Its about £5000 cheaper than the FSQ. :shocked::Envy:

Martin, Tom uses the 11 Meg in southern Spain without watercooling. I've never used the watercooling here on my 4000s either. I rarely fail to get -20. Yes, the 2 inch filters are costly but I see no reason to buy the Astrodons. I'm sure they're great but so are the Baaders. Besides, it seems likely that Tom and I will be pooling resources to make a double FSQ/Fullframe tandem available later in the year and the same filters would be more than a good idea. I may stick with a manual wheel, too. Bern lists one for 2 inch. As is well known, I don't computerize things that don't need to be sabotaged computerized!!! (Luddite, shameless Luddite, I know...)

Guy, yes, I dithered a moment too long over Roscoe's Art 11000. The darks were good.

Jesper, the pixels would be too big for binning with the Tak (and possibly with the TEC) but I don't bin in the Tak any more. I've done a few back to backs and the stars just don't look the same.

Finally we are interested in very large pixel counts because we'd like to try to produce gigantic prints for public display. We really are thnking 'gigantic....'

Olly

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ollypenrice

ollypenrice

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By the way Olly, "teetering on the very brink" with you Atik 4000 for sale already makes me wonder if you're contemplating other options? Any other short listed cams?

Unfortunately Atik don't do the fullframe version of the 7 micron pixel chip from the 4000. Another manufacturer does so but I use one and won't be changing from Atik. I did ask Atik if they could make me one (cheeky so and so) but it doesn't seem likely so 9 micron it will have to be. Where key parts of an image need finer resolution I'll do what I do already and hit the key bits with a bit of TEC data, as in the three key nebulae in this one;

http://ollypenrice.smugmug.com/Other/Best-of-Les-Granges/22435624_WLMPTM#!i=1922431809&k=zMXNNfJ&lb=1&s=O

Olly

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JamesF

JamesF

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By the way Olly, "teetering on the very brink" with your Atik 4000 for sale already makes me wonder if you're contemplating other options? Any other short listed cams?

I think this is a very good question. Given that you've already started selling bits and pieces off, what are your other options if you don't get the 11000?

James

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Gina

Gina

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I've come to the conclusion to get the best I can afford ASAP - not knowing how much longer I have left. I have friends who have had heart attacks and other medical problems as well as several deaths :( I felt it with the death of our dear Sir Partick - I worshipped that man :)

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ollypenrice

ollypenrice

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I think this is a very good question. Given that you've already started selling bits and pieces off, what are your other options if you don't get the 11000?

James

I don't know of any, given that I'm not able to spend an unlimited sum and that I get along very well with Atik.

Olly

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Gina

Gina

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Have to say, I'm very impressed with my recent Atik buys - superb quality :) The EFW2 is real precision engineering :) The 314L+ produces a lovely clean image in the ridiculously amount of time I've had to use it.

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ollypenrice

ollypenrice

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Have to say, I'm very impressed with my recent Atik buys - superb quality :) The EFW2 is real precision engineering :) The 314L+ produces a lovely clean image in the ridiculously amount of time I've had to use it.

I agree. Atik are mid range in price but much more than mid range in quality. Since a breakdown means letting folks down I want reliability before all else, and with Atik I've always had it. Also the coolers are powerful and the chip window heater can be a necessity even for me living here. Some damp nights are not unknown.

Olly

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ollypenrice

ollypenrice

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Hi

Yes these large chips are great ,( I have the sx h35 ) as long as you have the scope to cover the chip- which I know you have so spend, spend, spend

Regards Harry

I knew I could count on you, you devil!! Thanks Harry and have a good Chrstmas.

Olly

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ollypenrice

ollypenrice

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Olly - glad to hear you're considering the 11000 as it's the camera I'd get to use with a similar FL telescope, and for the same reasons (big prints).

I was concerned with the oversampling problem, but clearly it's not that big of an issue.

Cheers,

Peter

It will indeed be oversampled but I haven't found this to be a big deal. I doubt I'll use the Tak reducer with it, though. That would be going too far, I suspect.

Olly

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