be honest...

[ollypenrice]

I like good eyepieces and have never regretted an upgrade.

Olly

[E621Keith]

it's an extremely personal choice as to whether or not the purchase is worth it...

I totally agree on this one.

Sometimes you can even disagree with yourself whether an eyepiece is worth it. I have a number of eyepieces that simultaneously exceed my expectation in some areas but disappointed me in others.

[Spec-Chum]

Some interesting replies, but I must admit I'd thought I'd get at least one "I spent £300 on x on an upgrade to y and noticed very little difference"

Thanks for all your replies though, it really does seem like if you buy the best you buy smart

[E621Keith]

Some interesting replies, but I must admit I'd thought I'd get at least one "I spent £300 on x on an upgrade to y and noticed very little difference"

Thanks for all your replies though, it really does seem like if you buy the best you buy smart

Here you go.

I spent £300 on a 5mm NAV-SW to upgrade a 5 LVW and noticed very little difference*.

*in my C6

[michael.h.f.wilkinson]

Here you go.

I spent £300 on a 5mm NAV-SW to upgrade a 5 LVW and noticed very little difference*.

*in my C6

In an F/5 scope that might be different, of course

[Damo636]

28mm UWAN to 26mm Nagler and was left slightly underwhelmed! The Nagler was ergonomically nicer but no better optically at f6, at least that I could see!

[Naemeth]

For this reason, I think most scopes should be made at F/3. Then every upgrade looks far better than the last.

Of course, that's not realistic.

[crazyjedi]

I've no idea how they would compare directly, you could always buy and try, and you'd have no problem selling on, you might lose about 30% of the value from buying it new (about £22.50, so you would probably get £52.50 for it). The difference in magnification is about 10x (125x for 6mm and 136.363636363....x for 5.5mm), it's up to you, but if the eye relief doesn't bother you I say go for it .

TBH the eye relief is tight on my Meade 5.5mm anyway and I can't imagine the ortho would be any closer. I don't mind the short eye relief as I don't wear glasses and the drop in magnification would not be a terrible thing as the power of the 5.5mm is only usable when conditions are good. The slightly lower power of the 6mm may be more usable. I'm unlikely to sell them on though unless they compare badly. I have habit of holding on to things of beauty even if I seldom make use of them

[Naemeth]

TBH the eye relief is tight on my Meade 5.5mm anyway and I can't imagine the ortho would be any closer. I don't mind the short eye relief as I don't wear glasses and the drop in magnification would not be a terrible thing as the power of the 5.5mm is only usable when conditions are good. The slightly lower power of the 6mm may be more usable. I'm unlikely to sell them on though unless they compare badly. I have habit of holding on to things of beauty even if I seldom make use of them

Go for it then, get the 18mm too!

[bish]

I upgraded from meade 4000 (which I did like) to a nagler and radian. It was worth it for me at the time but have had to sell the nagler. If I am ever flush I would buy naglers again, but mid range do the job in the mean time.

[John]

I once paid around £80 to move from a 16mm UWAN to a 16mm Nagler T5. In the F/6 / F/6.5 scopes I had at the time I noticed very little if any difference but I did notice the loss of 2mm of eye relief that the move bought with it. If I'd had my F/4.8 newtonian then I might have felt the money better spent though.

Otherwise I've not regretted a £ spent on my Nagler / Ethos / Pentax XW collection although there are times when I wish the Nagler 31 was just a little lighter and that the XW's had 82 degree fields of view. But you can't have everything

[E621Keith]

In an F/5 scope that might be different, of course

Indeed. Even at F6, the Nikon shows better lateral CA correction and tighter stars than the LVW.

The Nikon is also more resistant to internal reflection and scatter, and these are visible even at F10 for high contrast targets like planets and bright stars.

I am beginning to think fast Newtonians may be false economy. You need to spend a lot more on high quality eyepiece to get a comparable wide AFOV to SCT.

[John]

....I am beginning to think fast Newtonians may be false economy. You need to spend a lot more on high quality eyepiece to get a comparable wide AFOV to SCT....

I think you have a good point there, especially when you take into account coma which will also impact the view when the focal ratio drops below F/5. My old Skyliner 200P 8" F/6 was relatively tolerant of low to medium cost eyepieces and easy to collimate but the next step up in the Skywatcher lineup is the 10" F/4.7 which is somewhat more "fussy" all around.

[RikM]

When I got my first Pentax XW to go with my Skyliner 250PX Dob it took a few nights to get the eyecup adjusted to the right height and to figure out the right eye placement. I was initially worried that I wouldn't be able to get used to them and the coma inherent in an f/4.7 Dob was still obvious (which I hadn't anticipated) so thought I might have made a mistake.

I hadn't ever looked through a Pentax before I ordered them. I had looked through a few TV eyepieces but my eyes don't get on with the ultrawide fields and tight eyerelief of Naglers or Ethos. I loved the aFOV of the Panoptics, the 22 mm and 27mm were great but they didn't have the range of focal lengths, or eyerelief I wanted. So I took a chance on the Pentax and ordered the 7mm and 14mm.

After a couple of observing sessions though, I figured out how to use them and swapping back to my previous Revalation Plossl and Hyperion EP's made me realise just how much better the Pentax are. I have since bought the 10mm and 20mm and I love them. Also using them in some small fast refractors (ST80 and TV Pronto) the extra light throughput of the premium glass really excels.

It might have cost me £1000 for the set but they are worth it to me and I can't imagine ever selling them by choice.

[Naemeth]

When I got my first Pentax XW to go with my Skyliner 250PX Dob it took a few nights to get the eyecup adjusted to the right height and to figure out the right eye placement. I was initially worried that I wouldn't be able to get used to them and the coma inherent in an f/4.7 Dob was still obvious (which I hadn't anticipated) so thought I might have made a mistake.

I hadn't ever looked through a Pentax before I ordered them. I had looked through a few TV eyepieces but my eyes don't get on with the ultrawide fields and tight eyerelief of Naglers or Ethos. I loved the aFOV of the Panoptics, the 22 mm and 27mm were great but they didn't have the range of focal lengths, or eyerelief I wanted. So I took a chance on the Pentax and ordered the 7mm and 14mm.

After a couple of observing sessions though, I figured out how to use them and swapping back to my previous Revalation Plossl and Hyperion EP's made me realise just how much better the Pentax are. I have since bought the 10mm and 20mm and I love them. Also using them in some small fast refractors (ST80 and TV Pronto) the extra light throughput of the premium glass really excels.

It might have cost me £1000 for the set but they are worth it to me and I can't imagine ever selling them by choice.

Even though I've got fairly cheap eyepieces, even looking through an MA, I always think my scope is capable of much more. Good Plössls do perform well at F/5, but for now I will be filling my collection with Plössls and BSTs/TMB type eyepieces, and then I'll probably move straight to TVs' or Pentaxs' (XF looks like a great eyepiece, I'll just hope it stays in stock that long!), saves me buying every stage of eyepieces as it were.

[John]

Even though I've got fairly cheap eyepieces, even looking through an MA, I always think my scope is capable of much more. Good Plössls do perform well at F/5, but for now I will be filling my collection with Plössls and BSTs/TMB type eyepieces, and then I'll probably move straight to TVs' or Pentaxs' (XF looks like a great eyepiece, I'll just hope it stays in stock that long!), saves me buying every stage of eyepieces as it were.

If you can get hold of some used Tele Vue plossls I think your scope will be delivering all it can to your eye. The more expensive Tele Vue ranges offer more in terms of field of view and eye relief, which are very nice to have, but no more in outright optical performance terms, in my opinion.

Although I'm very happy with my current eyepiece set as I've said above, if I had to "downscale" for economic or other reasons I'm almost certain that I'd go to some Tele Vue Plossls plus a 2.5x Powermate for the higher magnifications.

[Naemeth]

If you can get hold of some used Tele Vue plossls I think your scope will be delivering all it can to your eye. The more expensive Tele Vue ranges offer more in terms of field of view and eye relief, which are very nice to have, but no more in outright optical performance terms, in my opinion.

Although I'm very happy with my current eyepiece set as I've said above, if I had to "downscale" for economic or other reasons I'm almost certain that I'd go to some Tele Vue Plossls plus a 2.5x Powermate for the higher magnifications.

Trouble with Plössls is that below 20mm they have unusable eye relief for me as I need glasses. In addition, as I observe in a heavily light polluted area, I'm really not sure on having a 32mm Plössl, as the exit pupil may be higher than my eyes can dilate to in such an area (6.4mm), so that would leave a 20mm and 25mm Plössl . Do you think it's worth getting a 32mm at some point?

A Powermate is probably quite a good idea, but would I notice an improvement over my TAL x2 Barlow?

Just going to add, to have a full high magnification set, I'd need a 5x Powermate, as my scope has such a short focal length, a 10mm only gives 65x.

[Mr Fiery Jack]

For all I might like Naglers and Ethos there is simply no way I could actually bring myself to pay for them, and I could afford to if I had the inclination. Just because something better exists is not what could make me buy.

Yep, that's me. Most of my gear is second hand anyway apart from my AZ4 and the Moonlight on my frac. I do regret buying the moonlight, 350 quid, its never worth that kind of money. I feel a little embarrassed about it now...and that is being honest.

[Dunkster]

A Powermate is probably quite a good idea, but would I notice an improvement over my TAL x2 Barlow?

You'd probably be better off with your barlow, as that will extend the eye relief whereas a Powermate doesn't

[Naemeth]

That brings up an interesting point, how much does a Barlow increase eye relief by? I've tried searching but to no avail.

[Mr Fiery Jack]

] Although I'm very happy with my current eyepiece set as I've said above, if I had to "downscale" for economic or other reasons I'm almost certain that I'd go to some Tele Vue Plossls plus a 2.5x Powermate for the higher magnifications.

An extremely sensible post IMHO

[Moonshane]

That brings up an interesting point, how much does a Barlow increase eye relief by? I've tried searching but to no avail.

I think it varies but a rough guide is the strength of the barlow. so if your eyepiece has eye relief of 20mm it becomes 40mm. this is why they don't work well with e.g. 32mm plossls.

[RikM]

I think it varies but a rough guide is the strength of the barlow. so if your eyepiece has eye relief of 20mm it becomes 40mm. this is why they don't work well with e.g. 32mm plossls.

I think either the design of the eyepiece or the design of the barlow must affect this. I have recently been using my Pentax XW with a Televue 2.5x barlow (not Powermate). the Pentax are 20mm eyerelief and it does seem to extend a bit with the barlow, it doesn't double. I think it may be proportional to the focal length of the eyepiece and focal length of the barlow but what the exact relationship is, I don't know.

[Moonshane]

probably Rik. I have almost no experience with Barlows. the Powermate is very very good though. I used it a lot before I sold it and it just makes eyepieces have a shorter focal length with no other changes. this is what I'd recommend personally unless you want to increase eye relief a bit and in that case a barlow might help.

[Naemeth]

I'd want to increase eye relief. If only it was easy to calculate, I may be able to use a 17mm Plössl if barlowed, normally it has 13.6mm eye relief, but if that could go up to 15-16mm, it would be usable with glasses.