When do you learn most as a beginner - on your own or in a group.?

[stevetynant]

A few weeks ago I went out with some of the guys from the S Wales group to Brecon and had a fantastic evening out stargazing. Since starting with this hobby after Christmas I've gone on a few group meets and really enjoy the company and saw some things I probably would have never seen on my own (and had my scope collimated for the first time- thanks Matt).

The question I have though is do you learn more as a beginner in a group environment. What I've found is I spend a fair bit of time socializing and letting the other more experienced astronomers point out the night sky for me. So little effort on my part and a really fun evening. However when I'm on my own I'm forced into using star maps, reading and finding by trial and error - hopefully learning by my mistakes.

What I enjoy most is not in question - the company of other astronomers is always a pleasure but I just wonder if it makes me lazy and I don't actually retain nearly as much as when I'm on my own and forced to do the spade work alone. Has anyone else noticed this or is it just me?

I think this is a question really for us new to the hobby as when your more experienced the learning is probably more incremental than the steep curve you encounter as a beginner so probably group sessions for more experienced astronomers will always be more beneficial.

Just to reiterate before I'm kicked out of the S Wales group - I do look forward to our group meets and am gutted when I can't make them but just throwing it out there to see if anyone else had considered this.

cheers folks

Steve

[brantuk]

Steve - I had similar thoughts myself on more than one occasion out with the guys. Then I realised that the newbies and lesser experienced guys were learning from me, just as much as I was learning from the folks more experienced than me. Then I became very relaxed about it all and just enjoyed being amongst fellow astronomers and friends

One day you'll be passing on knowledge too I'm sure.

[JamesM]

This is an interesting question Steve. I don't think that the two positions are necessarily exclusive. Making arrangements to go out observing with others actually gets you out there using your kit, whereas at home, there is always the temptation to either not bother getting set up (family distractions, central heating:D) or to call it an early night because you are finding it difficult finding objects. Of course some people are unable to observe at home anyway due to light pollution, obstructed view etc and have to travel to a dark site to observe alone (which I wouldn't recommend) so for them observing with others in also about safety. Conversely, some people find the chatting and the looking through everybody else's scope a bit distracting and spoils their routine and method. The answer, is have a sort of casual agreement to have periods of getting down to your own stuff with the occasional break for a flask of coffee and munchies, where you can seek help and advice on your progress. This way you can have the best of both worlds, doing your own thing whilst in company of others who are near at hand should you need any help. Negotiating this of course depends upon the makeup of the group, whether you all know each other and regularly observe together, a sort of 'observing family' or whether the group is a bit more casual in accepting new and different people along with those who occasionally turn up. When you are a beginner, I feel you do learn more when you;re with others who can help until there is a time when you can practice by yourself, but that doesn't necessarily mean in isolation.

James

[valleyman]

The nice thing with the group Steve is that you can ask the questions and most times get the answers. Then take that with you to the back garden and have a much more fruitful session when you are on your own. Its a combination of both worlds and getting the best from both.

And it off course it is always a pleasure to see you at the meets.

Pat

[stevetynant]

all good points thanks folks - I must admit I do enjoy the group meets more and get a lot from them just not sure, as I don't have to work as hard, how much of it I retain (doesn't help when you've got the memory span of a goldfish of course)- but small steps for us beginners and all help appreciated as always.

Steve

[jeremy1]

Hmmm. Seems to be then that you hear a lot of advice and information when out with a group then put what you've learnt into practice when you are on your own. Then what you've forgotten between the two you can pick up again on the next group meet. Eventually your knowledge and experience will then grow and grow.

[Si Rollett]

I know for me I learn things in life better from other people showing me than reading out of a book but that's a dyslexic thing.

[Stu]

I have been observing for years, yet still find that when I am in a group I am taken out of my normal routine and learn new things or see new objects. I enjoy both group and solitary observing.

Of course this forum provides another option. I often read things on here and then go and try to find them myself, it all helps expand your knowledge.

I agree with the point about learning how to do things in a group and then trying them out at your leisure on your own without being watched

Stu

[PorkyB]

Being new to all of this I find that I am learning a great deal by trial and error on my own. It's all very simple stuff at the moment, that an experienced astronomer would take for granted, like what height to setup my tripod, or how to switch from viewing an object directly to viewing through the binoculars without loosing the object I'm looking at. A bit like a toddler learning to walk, the only way (for me) to do this is just to go and do it and accept that to start with I will get it wrong more often than I get it right.

I do intend to go my local astro society when I can, more as a social thing and to find out what other prople are looking at and what kit they have got. And for the tea.

I would be interested if there was a local observing group, but that's more about safety in numbers than learning from anyone else.

[Yimini]

I haven't managed to make it out to a group meet yet, so apart from what I have picked up from posting questions here, I am learning things the hard way. It might not be the quickest way of doing things, but it is very satisfying figuring things out for yourself. However, as previous posters have stated, it's better to do a combination of the two.

[starnut]

I've only started being interested in astronomy since watching Prof Brian Cox and I have learnt a lot from this great site (thanks guys “N” gals) and and also from the internet. As I'm retired I can spend loads of time up to 5-6 hours a day just reading articles on the net and playing with Stellarium and Virtual Moon Atlas both are very good.

I don't think I will be joining a Astro group as I like to go my own way, maybe I'm too much of a loner and I do enjoy my own company.

[Naemeth]

I would say it's about even. I've learnt most of my knowledge about telescopes and eyepieces from here, while I've learnt most of my knowledge about the stars and planets by myself (combination of Wikipedia and Stellarium). You will learn a lot from places like this, but can also learn on your own if you want.

[stevetynant]

"I've learnt most of my knowledge about telescopes and eyepieces from here" think it would be interesting to see how many beginners that come to this forum would agree with you there Naemeth and wider astronomy issues- I would definitely be one of them.

[Naemeth]

To me anyway, the background knowledge of where the stars and planets are in the sky, and knowing about the planets should just come naturally, and I certainly look things like this up for fun, when I found Stellarium, I became a lot more knowledgeable, but still really had no idea on telescopes/eyepieces. I think that knowledge has to be obtained from somewhere like here, or in a local astronomy shop .

[Ganymede12]

Personally I've always had an interest in the stars and I think I would have gotten into astronomy a lot earlier if there weren't so many clouds. I always watched documentary's and read books to gain most of my knowledge. I guess this is mainly because it wasn't till I went to a meeting with the CAS that I actually met other astronomers. I don't really know how to answer this question as whenever I've been with a group of stargazers it's been cloudy and therefore I've never had anyone point to a star and name it for me.

I think I learn more about space on my own but I learn more about telescopes with people.

[LukeSkywatcher]

I'm a stand alone guy.

[dav1d]

ISWYDT

I've never been out with a group, but I intend to at some point - it's not pressing.

From a personal point of view as a solo urban stargazer, doing it by myself presents a very steep learning curve. It's hard, but with practice becomes easier - I come across problems & am forced into finding solutions myself. There are things I want to do or see, but can't - being alone and unable to just ask someone forces me to work things out for myself, which is a good thing IMO.

And for the times when I can't work it out or I need advice & knowledge quickly from more experienced astronomers, SGL will usually get me some sound expertise-based opinions within a reasonable time.

Another bonus of the solo approach is that I'd have to ride to meets, which would preclude my normally horrendous red wine intake while observing

[todd8137]

Hi there this is we're binos come in handy,to learn you way round,groups are great,this is what I did,pick one constellation and study it do this over a few nights. Do not rush to see every thing in one night.start with the ones you no. And really look learn all about it try and name all the stars ,with in the constellation find all the goodies with in it double stars nebs ect but most of all enjoy it

Pat

[stevetynant]

ISWYDT

Another bonus of the solo approach is that I'd have to ride to meets, which would preclude my normally horrendous red wine intake while observing

I must admit despite loving a glass of wine or pint(s) of beer thats one thing I've never done when observing - not even in the garden. My sense of directions so bad and it gets so cold later on just think I need all the help (and coffee) I can get - perhaps its a summer thing to come lol