Some People

[CGolder]

U.K. Astronomy Buy & Sell

looks like this person has had a bad experience... fair enough but the use of caps and lack of informed advice made me report him

[nightfisher]

there are some people that are more than happy to scam other people using pp gift, sounds like he has had it happen

[CGolder]

I know, its just ill informed. if i am dealing with someone for the first time and i want security of Paypal Purchase (rather than Cheque, Cash, Paypal GIft or Bank Transfer which offer no security) then i pay it or agree a deal with the seller, if all sellers had to pay the fee's the price would just increase to but the item in the first place, like a well known auction site

[sanmatt]

Although he is right. Don't use 'gift' with Paypal when paying for goods or services, you'll have no protection whatsoever.

[CGolder]

i don't really understand what protection he would expect without paying for the paypal fee's on any transaction. you could meet up without someone, pay in cash and get home and its not what you expected. if you buy second hand you always have a risk regardless.

i would advise people to use common sense as with any transaction.

[Cunhaval]

Have to say that I agree with the UKABS poster.

This business of "paypal as a gift" has gotten out of hand. And I do wonder if all purchasers realise how little comeback it leaves them on the occasions when it goes wrong.

If a seller doesn't want Paypal's (admittedly excessive) transaction fees - then specify cash on collection or (fully!) cleared cheque only.

"Paypal as a gift" is the online equivalent of putting a bundle of tenners in an unregistered envelope, sending it, and hoping for the best. If you wouldn't do the latter, why would you do the former?

I didn't much like it in the bad old days when some shops used to try to charge you extra for payment by credit card (to cover their own credit card fees), and I'm similarly unimpressed by "paypal as a gift" or "cover my fees".

Don't misunderstand me - I have occasionally done the "gift" myself in the past without problems, and the few reported problems say a lot for the integrity of people who are likely to be selling astro gear. But that doesn't mean the practice is safe or sensible.

[CGolder]

Does a cleared Cheque provide the buyer with more protection than paypal gift payment? or a bank transfer?

All a cheque protects against is being lost in the post, paypal also makes sure this doesn't happen.

[Grunthos]

Interesting discussion.

I've always looked on ABS as a little bit of a punt if not able to meet with seller direct. Trust and confidence is all.

I try to apply a little "due diligence" and speak to the seller and/or get further details of the product (caveat emptor and all that good stuff...).

I usually purchase with BACS.

[kernowstargazer]

I think there should be an advice section or a does and donts on here just about buying second hand for new comers to this superb hobby.

[182570]

I'm in agreement with the original poster,if you are selling through Paypal then surely it's common sense to ask enough in the sales price to cover the fees,then everyone's covered,like others I've paid as a gift,but only for small items and would be reluctant to do the same for a larger purchase.

[Macavity]

I think, if the odd quid (?) here or there matters, I wouldn't buy / sell from / to that person? Never would enter to some... "fiddle" with a stranger - Even if it had a legitimate money-saving, or "armchair revolutionary" motivation.

[benjii]

I've always paid the extra 3.5% for paypal on AB&S so I'm protected. However, I normally knock the seller down a few quid, so it all works out alright. Although in saying that, it's not really possible on items in demand, you have to just pay the full amount or someone else will. I'd still do the extra 3.5% though.

[JB80]

So what is the safest way using paypal just for clarification?

I don't mind adding extra to the seller if it makes them accountable but what exactly are the options?

I'd hate to see people revert to cash on collection or even cheques as it automatically would rule out lots of people.

[sanmatt]

I'm about to pay cash on delivery for a kiddies play house...only the chap is expecting me there in 45 minutes but hasnt yet given me his address. Some people indeed!

[JB80]

Well, there you go..........

http://www.astrobuysell.com/uk/propview.php?view=53361

U.K. Astronomy Buy & Sell

I've never had an issue before with PP either, but I can imagine it would hurt to get burned.

[benjii]

So what is the safest way using paypal just for clarification?

I don't mind adding extra to the seller if it makes them accountable but what exactly are the options?

I'd hate to see people revert to cash on collection or even cheques as it automatically would rule out lots of people.

I can't remember the exact option, but it's something like goods transaction. You're not covered if they screw you on either services or gift. For goods you want to add 3.5% to the agreed price.

[Parus major]

I do a lot of buying and selling and I really don't deal with paypal gifting. If selling I send an invoice stating for goods, if buying I request one. With gift you have no come back at all so you might as well send cash through the post.

As a seller if you grudge the few quid the fee is then charge charge a few quid more.

[Zakalwe]

I know, its just ill informed. if i am dealing with someone for the first time and i want security of Paypal Purchase (rather than Cheque, Cash, Paypal GIft or Bank Transfer which offer no security) then i pay it or agree a deal with the seller, if all sellers had to pay the fee's the price would just increase to but the item in the first place, like a well known auction site

Huh? Bank transfer is about the safest way of doing things that you can get. The money cannot be reversed after the close of the banking day, so it is as safe as houses. Certainly safer than a cheque (which can be reversed even after it has cleared), cash (some forgeries are very, very good) or Paypal.

As for buying with Paypal, the buyers protection is actually quite limited (does it even apply if you are not buying through eBay???). This is from the PP website:

13.2 What are the eligibility requirements for PayPal Buyer Protection?

You must meet all of these requirements to be eligible for a payment under PayPal Buyer Protection:

1. Your payment must be for an eligible item and made from your PayPal Account (see Section 13.3 for further details on item eligibility);
   
2. Pay the full amount of the eligible item in one payment. Items purchased with multiple payments – like a deposit followed by a final payment – are not eligible;
   
3. Send the payment to the Payment Recipient through:
   
   1. 
      
   2. the eBay “Pay Now” button or the eBay invoice, or
      
   3. the “Send Money” button of your PayPal account by selecting “eBay Item” and entering your eBay User ID and the eBay item number; or
      
   4. for purchases made outside of eBay: the Send Money tab on the PayPal website by clicking the “Purchase” tab, or the Payment Recipient's PayPal checkout flow; and
      
      
   5. Open a Dispute within 45 days of the date you sent the payment and follow the online dispute resolution process described below under “How do I resolve my problem?” in section 13.5.
      
      

[Parus major]

The problem is that once you do a bank transfer and your gear doesn't turn up.....

[RikM]

When not buying new from a reputable supplier, I prefer paying in old fashioned cash, in person, after having a good look at the item.

[Grunthos]

The problem is that once you do a bank transfer and your gear doesn't turn up.....

I think the answer to that is in your signature - "M1 Garand bayonet for the fiddly jobs" ( joke!)

Seriously though, I think we may be in danger of over analysing this issue.

It's not rocket science is it?

Check out the deal and the buyer.

If it looks too good to be true or smells a bit fishy don't proceed.

[Parus major]

Sometimes it's the mundane ones that go walkies.

[Moonshane]

it's not that difficult to google people (email address, telephone number, name, online name) these days and find something about them. I generally do this when selling or buying. if I am still not happy I have a conversation with them or drive to get the item. if it's a very expensive item I guage the cost of going for it in fuel against the risk of losing it in transit. it's all common sense really, just make a decision based on risk factors.