SkyWatcher SynScan GOTO - what the Manual doesn't tell you!

[Aenima]

Hi,

Have really enjoyed this thread so far and have found it very enlightening.

I find myself in what seems to be a very common dilemma of just which scope I am going to get and though after several years of backyard stargazing

I can find my way around the sky with bins... I find the prospect of looking through a scope a different kettle of fish and so have been strongly considering

a “goto” mount...but depending on the time of day and my mood this changes, and changes and changes as I struggle to make a final decision

mainly between stability and portability

So can I add what could be a deciding question? What if you cannot see Polaris from where you are viewing?

Is it a written in stone must...to be spot on north via Polaris for setting setting up a goto mount?

Where I live I have a pretty fair panorama from the southeast thru south to west but north at least as far as Polaris is concerned is out of view, this is due to the close proximity of my and neighbours house,

If I move to the front garden the recently upgraded lamppost is far, far too bright. (Though I have a bsa airsporter .22...ha ha) :evil:

Using bins I can get away with it somewhat, by getting into different viewing positions

but with a scope I don’t think it’s going to be such a good prospect. And so I would have to travel, hence a poss portability issue.

So do I have to have a clear view of Polaris for a goto??

and as i am here just how big bulky heavy is a skywatcher eq5 pro mount

Thanks

gra

Hi there,

I understand the stress involved when trying to decided on a scope, and questions like the one above is the best way to go about it in the interest of not regretting your purchase.

One thing that will make the difference - photography - whether you want to try imaging (most people say its not an issue, then take a look through a scope and are immediately hooked! I was, for sure. Didnt think it was important and got a scope for visual and have been compromising and compensating ever since. So, for imaging an EQ driven mount is a bonus for lunar planetary and a must for deepsky stuff.

Otherwise, for visual with goto you would only need a rough polaralignment - if you get an EQ that is - with AZgoto polar alignment is not even important.

Face the tripod leg north with a compass/ a idea of where polaris is and this will do for most purposes including goto (and lunar/planetary photography is still do-able too)

My EQ5 is a chunky thing and the difference between it and the bigger mounts is more stability than size, its still a heavy mount/tripod with large weights - it dwarfs my 130p AZ goto (which in comparison is 'my grab n go' scope now!)

Hope this helps,

Regards

[russ.will]

Hi,

Have really enjoyed this thread so far and have found it very enlightening.

I find myself in what seems to be a very common dilemma of just which scope I am going to get and though after several years of backyard stargazing

I can find my way around the sky with bins... I find the prospect of looking through a scope a different kettle of fish and so have been strongly considering

a “goto” mount...but depending on the time of day and my mood this changes, and changes and changes as I struggle to make a final decision

mainly between stability and portability

So can I add what could be a deciding question? What if you cannot see Polaris from where you are viewing?

Is it a written in stone must...to be spot on north via Polaris for setting setting up a goto mount?

Where I live I have a pretty fair panorama from the southeast thru south to west but north at least as far as Polaris is concerned is out of view, this is due to the close proximity of my and neighbours house,

If I move to the front garden the recently upgraded lamppost is far, far too bright. (Though I have a bsa airsporter .22...ha ha) :evil:

Using bins I can get away with it somewhat, by getting into different viewing positions

but with a scope I don’t think it’s going to be such a good prospect. And so I would have to travel, hence a poss portability issue.

So do I have to have a clear view of Polaris for a goto??

and as i am here just how big bulky heavy is a skywatcher eq5 pro mount

Thanks

gra

If you want GOTO and are a purely visual observer, then consider a GOTO Dobsonian. Stability is a non-issue as all of the weight is near the ground. In terms of GOTO alignment, it's as per an Alt/Az mount. That means that you replace polar alignment (which you can't do) with making sure the base is level (which you can) and then simply align on two visible stars, following the handset instructions.

Get a FlexTube or truss tube Dob and portability is assured. FWIW, I run my Dob off a 17Ah golf trolley battery which sits on the base of the Dob, so unlike an EQ mount, there are no trailing wires to trip over/get twisted up/get pulled out, etc.

Russell

[starfuel]

Don't know if anyone else has has this experience but I had problems one night doing a 3-star alignment with the Synscan. First star selected for me was Sirius. Couldn't see it so went to given alternative. Followed all the prompts, centring on stars given to me only to be told 'alignment failed'. Repeated process a number of times with the only difference in result being an increase in frustration levels. By this time Sirius had come into view and I was able to start with it, centre on subsequent stars and all was fine. I have wondered since if, having rejected the handset's choice of first star, I should have also rejected it's first choice of second and third stars on gone to its second choice in each case. Perhaps I'll try it one night but at the moment observing time is too precious.

[Demonperformer]

The nice thing about Sirius is that it is totally unmistakable and so you can be absolutely sure you are aligning on the right star. On a number of occasions, I have tried aligning, but not been totally sure which star in the eyepiece is the one I have wanted and had the 'fail' result. I have learned that in situations like this the star I actually want can be just outside of the fov when I initially point the scope at it, leading to the on-board computer's (and my) confusion.

[dph1nm]

Don't know if anyone else has has this experience but I had problems one night doing a 3-star alignment with the Synscan.

Which firmware version do you have? I used to find stuff like this happened all the time with 3.27, so star A,B,C would fail, but C,B,A would work. Since I upgraded to 3.32 I have never had a single alignment fail.

NigelM

Edited February 21, 2013 by dph1nm

[JonnyP]

In short, my opinion of GOTOs is like having a GPS in your car. Learning to drive is a separate operation from learning where you want to go. With a GPS you trade having to program it with where you want to go for having it direct you to the location (provided the directions are clear - some are, some aren't, get a good one.) Without a GPS you have to follow roadsigns - akin to starhopping and hope you don't get lost.

That's an interesting comparison, because of course when you use GPS or SatNav instead of a map you don't learn the way, and of more relevance, you don't learn the way the land looks. When you look at a map you notice all sorts of interesting bits that a SatNav doesn't show. (Didn't you see the huge castle next to your destination, or the astronomy shop two streets away, etc. I was once talking to a bunch of cyclists who had used SatNav to get to a mountainbike centre and were wondering where to stay. They were completely unaware of the large city nearby..).

When I'm examining my star atlas to jump to whichever object I'll often notice another object that looks interesting close by and star hop to that as well. That can lead to a whole evening on a diversion as such but can be very entertaining. And with a Goto I doubt I'd have looked at half of the interesting NGCs or weirdly coloured stars, or double stars, etc.

For my way of thinking GPS doesn't compare with driving but with learning how to use a map and all of the benefits that brings.

[starfuel]

Which firmware version do you have? I used to find stuff like this happened all the time with 3.27, so star A,B,C would fail, but C,B,A would work. Since I upgraded to 3.32 I have never had a single alignment fail.

I have 3.27. 3.32 is no longer available but has been replaced by 2.34. I have not heard any views on that.

Chris

NigelM

[Nibor]

My new skymax 127 synscan goto arrived this morning. Only ordered yesterday from Sherwood's. Put it together - pretty easy operation - and took it outside to get it acclimatised. Then the fog rolled in !!!!! There's always tomorrow.

One thing different from my previous beginners scope - this one has a star diagonal which turns the image the right way up and reverses it from left to right (as you will all know). Does antone else find this a problem and will I just get used to it. It is good for my viewing position and my knees, I do confess!

Once again thanks for all the help and advice so far. It is much appreciated. I know my teacher at school (in the olden days) once told me that there is no such thing as a daft question. If you don't know the answer, then its not a daft question.

I tried for over a year to get the hang of mirror imaged views (Mak 127 and 80 mm refractors) so I eventually decided to try an erecting Amici prism diagonal:-

http://www.astroshop.eu/omegon-1-25---amici-prism-90d/p,14172

I have found it a great success and compares very favourably with my mid range mirror diagonals. Target location and identification has been made made much less stressful as I can directly compare what I see through the eyepiece with my star atlas and the photos in my copy of "Illustrated Guide to Astronomical Wonders" (DIY Science Series) . I know that the light transmission properties of the Amici diagonal are not as good as higher end mirror diagonals but if I want to see that bit deeper then I can just switch to a mirror diagonal - knowing that I am already on target.

I have the Synscan GOTO and it has helped me find objects I could not star hop to because of my light polluted skies. BTW I always like to check out the area of sky when a GOTO object is found - I use a red dot finder and binos - I believe it helps me get to know the sky better - rather than just blindly travelling from one object to another.

[Aenima]

Don't know if anyone else has has this experience but I had problems one night doing a 3-star alignment with the Synscan. First star selected for me was Sirius. Couldn't see it so went to given alternative. Followed all the prompts, centring on stars given to me only to be told 'alignment failed'. Repeated process a number of times with the only difference in result being an increase in frustration levels. By this time Sirius had come into view and I was able to start with it, centre on subsequent stars and all was fine. I have wondered since if, having rejected the handset's choice of first star, I should have also rejected it's first choice of second and third stars on gone to its second choice in each case. Perhaps I'll try it one night but at the moment observing time is too precious.

Something i found useful was to go into the set up and under alignment stars choose alphabetical - this gives more options (stars) than star magnitude or section of sky (I only had a limited area to work in) .

Also if you dont select the handset's first star its probably best to start again, choosing the star yourself. I think that rejecting the first star after alignment has begun it might leave the goto computer a little less sure of where it is, although dont quote me on it

(I always found that choosing the first star myself helped the process go easier than if I was given a star by the handset but then skipped onto the next or the one after etc. )

" I should have also rejected it's first choice of second and third stars on gone to its second choice in each case..." < not sure if this is how it works, if you use the handset's second choice the rest should still be okay to align with, hopefully if you can find a first star that works the rest will go smoothly.

HTH

Regards

Aenima

Edited February 24, 2013 by Aenima

[Clackvalve]

Hi Nigel, thanks for the info. I have just bought the 127 GOTO Had I known the difficulty in setting this thing up, I would not have gone this way, but i have so I'll have to knuckle down and join those little dots up in the night sky.

It doesn't say in the manual where to point the scope to when you set up for the first time, I spent hours trying to find what to point at in the manual so I started by pointing at Polaris. I soon found out that it doesen't matter but it does save some time if you can get it in the general direction.

I have one other point to make and that is something you touched on Nigel, I can only see from about 140 deg to about 300 deg. I am fortunate that I live in a small village and have very little light polution My house covers north east and I have close trees covering the rest, I live on a hill so the trees between the above co-ordinates are at the bottom of the hill giving me a reasonable viewing area. I guess the point I am trying to make is that the setup routines are extreemely difficult. Is there any way during ether one stare or two star methods that you can select the star(s) you lign up on?

Clackvalve

[Aenima]

Hi Nigel, thanks for the info. I have just bought the 127 GOTO Had I known the difficulty in setting this thing up, I would not have gone this way, but i have so I'll have to knuckle down and join those little dots up in the night sky.

It doesn't say in the manual where to point the scope to when you set up for the first time, I spent hours trying to find what to point at in the manual so I started by pointing at Polaris. I soon found out that it doesen't matter but it does save some time if you can get it in the general direction.

I have one other point to make and that is something you touched on Nigel, I can only see from about 140 deg to about 300 deg. I am fortunate that I live in a small village and have very little light polution My house covers north east and I have close trees covering the rest, I live on a hill so the trees between the above co-ordinates are at the bottom of the hill giving me a reasonable viewing area. I guess the point I am trying to make is that the setup routines are extreemely difficult. Is there any way during ether one stare or two star methods that you can select the star(s) you lign up on?

Clackvalve

Hi,

Once you get familiar with your particular sky and the goto system it should take less and less time and trouble to get going.

If you go into the menu and under alignment stars choose alphabetical instead of magnitude you should get more choices. Also, Stellarium is useful and a good way to learn the names in a particular area of sky.

HTH

All the best,

Aenima

[lensman57]

Hi Nigel, thanks for the info. I have just bought the 127 GOTO Had I known the difficulty in setting this thing up, I would not have gone this way, but i have so I'll have to knuckle down and join those little dots up in the night sky.

It doesn't say in the manual where to point the scope to when you set up for the first time, I spent hours trying to find what to point at in the manual so I started by pointing at Polaris. I soon found out that it doesen't matter but it does save some time if you can get it in the general direction.

I have one other point to make and that is something you touched on Nigel, I can only see from about 140 deg to about 300 deg. I am fortunate that I live in a small village and have very little light polution My house covers north east and I have close trees covering the rest, I live on a hill so the trees between the above co-ordinates are at the bottom of the hill giving me a reasonable viewing area. I guess the point I am trying to make is that the setup routines are extreemely difficult. Is there any way during ether one stare or two star methods that you can select the star(s) you lign up on?

Clackvalve

Hi Clackvalve,

I too have the 127 Mak GoTo for a month now and Just in case you have not worked it out, before aligning and before you turn the handset on make sure that the base is absolutely level ( this is more important than you think for accurate tracking ), the scope should always be facing north before alignment, although SW AZ does not need to be polar aligned it is a good practice to at least make sure Polaris is visible in the scope, turn the hand set off, turn it on again and asign this position as home position,under Utility- scroll down and you find "park scope", home position etc. Turn off again and then on and the home position is set. Every time you finish with observing "park" the scope and turn off. It helps with accuracy as the GoTo has a reference position to start from. Aligning is as per instructions but you will find that for some parts of the sky the GoTo is less accurate than others in which case you go the PAE function under utility ( pointing accuracy enhancement ) and use the arrows to center the star.The hand set will remember the correction for that part of the sky for a field of view of 5 degrees, you can do it for quite a number of locations in the sky and the GoTo will remember them for the session. If all this is too much then you have the option of exiting alignment during start up ( option 2- exit alignment ) then press ESC, go to utility scroll down to tracking, enter and choose between sidereal, lunar or solar to suit the particular object the scope will track with a good degree of accuracy for visual or short period webcam imaging. It goes without saying that is imperative that you enter your co ordinates and time very accurately during the set up.

Hope this helps and happy observing.

Regards,

A.G

[Nibor]

Clackvalve,

Welcome to the forum...

I have the same S/W GOTO mount - I would suggest you "stick with it" and learn its foibles - I find it works very well if you follow the instructions and enter your location and all times/date correctly!! My regular error is the incorrect date!!

In my light polluted sky it has found objects I would never otherwise have found - I think it is a great system for the money and of course it can be linked to a virtual planetarium like Stellarium. I fine tune the system using the PAE option and I have found it works best for me if the two alignment stars are widely separated.

[NoSiriusly]

This thread has been great. I've just received my GoTo upgrade and this has opened my eyes to what to expect.

How important is an accurate home position?

[Gomtuu]

I see that firmware 3.32 has been withdrawn due to polar alignment issues. Has anybody tried 3.34?

[Gomtuu]

How important is an accurate home position?

Well, I'd say starting from the home position is fairly important, or the alignment won't work. Can't remember how I originally did it, but once I determined home, I made some small marks on the scope so I could set the position manually if needed. It's the alignment process which fine tunes the accuracy, but starting from an accurate home will definitely help.

[Aenima]

Thats interesting the 3.32 v being withdrawn, it was for the polar align feature that I upgraded. Although my set up isnt permanent I still found that if I got the polar alignment close as possible using the polarscope reticule then just went through the new PA feature once as a extra tweak my exposure times before startrails went from 30sec to 60sec.

Still not perfect but an improvement on the polarscope alone.

I did notice the readout on the handset showed the PA (mel/maz) error to be far from zero but my impatience with centering stars in FOV and only doing one alt az adjustment when the feature allows many cycles of the process means that my method is not the most accurate test nor the most thorough, maybe those with permanent mounting along with drift alignment are getting a better idea of how spot on the accuracy really is...

Hopefully someone who has tried 3.32 and / or 3.34 v can give an update here regarding any improvement with polar alignment feature in the new firmware.

Regards

Aenima

PS with my AZ goto I never needed to point north, 'park' or use the home position, but it was set up in a different place each session and I only used the goto for locating objects and webcam imaging - longer exposure stuff I did with the EQ5.

Edited March 22, 2013 by Aenima

[Aenima]

Oh, the pol-align feature is disabled in the new version. :/

Might just hang on til it gets repaired as its not really much of a major bug as far as I can tell. Here is a link to another forum where its discussed in better detail http://www.iceinspace.com.au/forum/showthread.php?t=101398

Will watch this space

Aenima

Edited March 22, 2013 by Aenima

[Gomtuu]

http://www.iceinspac...ad.php?t=101398

Interesting link, thanks.

[NoSiriusly]

Well, I'd say starting from the home position is fairly important, or the alignment won't work. Can't remember how I originally did it, but once I determined home, I made some small marks on the scope so I could set the position manually if needed. It's the alignment process which fine tunes the accuracy, but starting from an accurate home will definitely help.

Thanks Gomtuu. I found a series of videos on YouTube going through a full setup. It's done by the Astronomy Shed chap who goes into great detail. http://m.youtube.com/watch?feature=relmfu&v=4fO6hyYtPwMH

He goes into a lot of detail so I was a bit unsure how much applied to a non-imager like myself.

[Mattscar]

As someone who has just bought a scope for the first time and was wondering if I would regret not buying a GOTO scope, thanks very much for this Kind of re-assures me a little bit for just buying a mount that can track and not going the whole hog first time out.

[Aenima]

As someone who has just bought a scope for the first time and was wondering if I would regret not buying a GOTO scope, thanks very much for this Kind of re-assures me a little bit for just buying a mount that can track and not going the whole hog first time out.

Very true.

I have to be honest and say for my purposes I would be lost without it. But its not like that for everyone. with light pollution nearby and little time to set up the goto location really helps me get a target fast to then try for a picture, otherwise starhopping would take more time than anything else. The handy 1 star align means I can be out and on target in less than half an hour.

Aenima

Edited March 22, 2013 by Aenima

[Galilean]

If you download the PDF in the enclosed attachment and print them it lists all of the alignment stars and their positions and which constellation they are in. I have found this invaluable when looking for the appropriate alignment stars

Http://www.iceinspace.com.au/63-501-0-0-1-0.html

Thank you - that is most helpful.

[Looeewoo]

This may the most useful thread ever! If I can throw my tuppence in regarding upgrading the firmware and controlling the scope by PC:

I bought a USB-Serial Adapter from Amazon UK http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B000TV25SU/ref=oh_details_o01_s00_i00?ie=UTF8&psc=1 - this uses the Prolific chip that most people seem to recommend. My 2003 Sony laptop is running Win XP Pro and the latest version of Stellarium.

Two main points I'd like to bring to the party; the serial port baud rate for the port should be set to 115200 in the Hardware/Device Manager/Ports/Prolific etc./Port Settings page. This permits firmware upgrade within about a minute, vs. the 'slow' mode described in the firmware ReadMe. I don't know how much effect it has on PC control of the scope, but it can't hurt.

The second is that I assumed that for Stellarium to drive the scope I would have to set the SynScan to 'PC Connection', but this isn't the case. The mount will slew under Stellarium control on any setting BUT this one!

[tteedd]

I bought a Skywatcher Mak 127 with synscan goto at the IAF last month. I have since bought a 130p on an eq mount form Ebay and fitted it with dovetail/clamp so that all are interchangeable. I have gone through the same process as others in this thread over the last month. (BTW - why can't I do carriage returns?) Comments : Using a large rechargeable battery (like the golf trolley one mentioned solves several problems. You can use it for many nights with no problems. If you put it on the tray you do not need the 'bag of sand' for stability. The output voltage barely changes over several evenings. Especially for the MAk but also for the 130p a 40mm EP is a boon when looking for fairly bright object as once the synscan is setup the object chosen is more likely to be in the eyepiece. You really do need to know where the brightest stars are. Definitely take an evening to learn them before trying with the instrument. When the clouds are around using a star chart does not work for a novice and in any case does not do wonders for your night sight. Question: I've done all the basic things suggested on this board (level, time, co-ords etc and I'm getting very handy at getting set up but I still find that the synscan has nowhere near the accuracy suggested on these notice boards. This does not matter with relatively bright objects but is extremely difficult with dim ones. Very rarely is any object near the centre of my EP an often not in view at all. Is my machine inaccurate? or are they all like that?