Any reason not to but this scope ? I am near to a decision!

[Paul-F]

(I know - the title is spelt incorrectly! )

Hi,

I am seriously considering getting this scope with a basic alt/az mount as my grab & go visual scope as it has alledgedly got great optical quality.

ED102

Is there opinion on this? What alternatives should I consider? I primarily want a very good visual experience ....

Thanks

Paul

[pilkinn]

I've not got any experience of the scope but it looks good and the price is very reasonable. The bit I'd be concerned about is the use of it as a grab and go on a basic alt az mount. Many a good telescope has been ruined by an unsuitable mount. I have a 98mm refractor and it needs to be on a beefy mount.

(sent using Tapatalk)

[John]

It's a lot of money for a 4" for visual only. You could get a decent ED doublet for quite a lot less and may not notice any difference, for visual use. Triplets will take some time to cool, even 102mm ones.

[michaelmorris]

I concur with John. The scope seems designed primarily for imaging (triplet lens and 3" focuser). If it's just for visual use, an ED doublet and a 2 " focuser would probably be almost as good and fraction of the price.

[JKB]

Again this is a superb Imaging scope when fitted to a suitable mount! Alt/Az for visual? Seems a lot of money for visual work? As said before a larger ED doublet would be better for much less?

Just my 2p

Cheers

Jamie

[CeeDee]

There is no doubt that a doublet costs a great deal less than a decent triplet especially for visual use. However, it does depend on your sight and whether or not you want quality optics.

The concerns over all these new chinese-built refractors is that there doesn't seem to be a consistent optical quality throughout (read Steve Graham's comments about 'cheap triplets' on the FLO website). As afar as I can ascertain, in terms of quality this new breed of chinese-built refractors are about at the stage where William Optics was about five or six years ago. It's no accident that both Altair Asto here in the UK and Telescop Servis in Germany are employing people to sort out the scopes after they arrive in Europe. For how long will these low cost chinese refractors hold their collimation?

If you want a lovely scope go for something like an FLT 110 APO (especially when they come out later this year fitted with the new DDG R&P focuser). The current crop of DDG focusers are just OK but there have been issues with slippage etc in the past. If you can afford it, a Takahashi 102mm is another recommended scope. It may mean you have to save the pennies for a few months more but it will be so worth it!

[ollypenrice]

I've just seen my first FLT110, an earlier one with the first of those pointless digital focusers, and all I can say is that I hope the new ones are better because this was the worst focuser assembly I've ever seen. The camera rotator needed pushing up to the scope before the lock screw would hold it. What on Earth is the point of that? The idea of a rotator is to allow you to maintain critical focus without pulliing and pushing on the mount. The focuser itself had been little used but felt notchy, slipped and would not wind the drawtube back in all the way. Frankly it was an abomination.

I have an ED102 in residence at the moment and, although I haven't had a chance to use it properly yet, the focuser is good (though I don't like Crayfords in principle) and the rotator works, unlike the WO one.

I had the 115mm sister of the 102 for over a year and found it outstanding. My own scope in this broad category is a TEC140 which most will agree is as good as it gets. The 115 ran it very close, to be honest, and thanks to its flattener had a far bigger flat field. I was seriously tempted to sell the TEC and keep the 115 because if I move to full frame CCD cameras I'll need to spend a fortune on the TEC flattener. In the end I just couldn't do it because the TEC is such a joy.

The ED102 does have features of importance to imagers and not visual observers, it is perfectly true, but that might impact favourably on its resale value since imaging dominates the small apo market.

I do feel that all scopes should get an objective review rather than be judged on their pedigree, their glass type or even the number of elements in their lenses. The Tak FSQ85 has no Fluorite element it but it is probably the best colour corrected lens in series production. Just an example.

Olly

[Paul-F]

Good comments there and food for thought. I reasoned to go for a good optical scope as I have no experience of what to expect from the differing glass types ... I have cheap binos that make Jupiter a simple bright light which I recognise as CA so I don't want that I say to myself - however, the main intended purpose for me is for rich field with wide angle eyepieces (eg, 17mm Ethos) to fit between the 15x70 binos and the 12" LX90 - and this is occasional use tbh. Some planetary viewing if away from home as well but for me the SCT wins out on planets. If I prioritise on what I am missing from what I have now then this might even do the job: Cheap Goto 102 Refractor

However, I have to admit that I fancy the idea of good quality optics so I think the best route is proven known quality with a decent used scope so that I can maybe also buy a decent DSLR to try out some imaging!

[Moonshane]

if you really want grab and go, top quality optics, no CA, alt az movement and decent aperture for about £1000 then VX8 with a dual speed focuser, 1/10PV optics and a dob base would be just about that.

OK it's not a frac but would be rock solid, set up in seconds and privde excellent views of pretty much everything.

[EssexMigrant]

I've read this thread with interest, and it proves beyond all doubt that I'm getting very old. Why anyone would want to spend more than a hundred quid on a grab and go is totally beyond me! A grab and go is just that; something to pull out and use on a whim, or when an the odd cloud break happens. You DON'T want a scope that's going to require ANY cooling down time, and it needs to be light enough to be ready fully assembled to GRAB AND GO! A cheap long focus sixty mil scope that can be had for forty quid or less, secondhand on ebay is perfect. No false colour, often perfect diffraction rings in intra and extra focus, superb for doubles, planets the moon etc, and will pull in a lot more fuzzies than is generally acknowledged.

But of course I'm very old, and this is just MY opinion.

Max

[Catweazel]

I have to agree that for purely visual, that ED102 seems well over the top! You could get a decent visual scope for far less money.

[Ags]

I have an ST80 on an AZ3 for grabbing and going. I also have a 102mm mak on a lightweight goto/tracking mount for planetary grabbing and going. Optically, I do not think there is much difference between my mak and an apo... Ultimate grab and go is my ageing pair of 1x5 eyeballs :-)

[ollypenrice]

Surely grabbing and going can include going on holiday to a country with a decent sky, though? I used to do that before I emigrated. That's worth a bit of investment, I reckon.

I had alook through the ED102 last night. I'll PM my impressions.

Olly

[swamp thing]

Personally I think the price of a grab n go is up to the individual. What's expensive to me, might be peanuts to others.

Therefore I would be resistant to tell others what price a grab n go scope should be.

It also may depend how much grab n going the individual does. If you have an observatory in the back yard it's unlikely a grab n go will get much use. If on the other hand you are a truck driver on continental work a good grab n go in the cab will be worth spending a considerable amount on. Certainly more than £100.

Regards Steve

[Ags]

Personally I think the price of a grab n go is up to the individual. What's expensive to me, might be peanuts to others.

Therefore I would be resistant to tell others what price a grab n go scope should be.

It also may depend how much grab n going the individual does. If you have an observatory in the back yard it's unlikely a grab n go will get much use. If on the other hand you are a truck driver on continental work a good grab n go in the cab will be worth spending a considerable amount on. Certainly more than £100.

Regards Steve

Well said!

[Paul-F]

Surely grabbing and going can include going on holiday to a country with a decent sky, though? I used to do that before I emigrated. That's worth a bit of investment, I reckon.

I had alook through the ED102 last night. I'll PM my impressions.

Olly

In my case 'Grab & Go' means grab & drive to France/Spain 4 to 5 times a year for family hols + a couple of track days (3-5 day trips with a single track day trip costing the same as that scope!), and some time in the dark Irish countryside ... I have on occasion noted lovely skies in a couple of places where I have been staying and tell the missus the 'I wish I had my scope with me' line. I only have to decide on what mount and I am inclined to say an alt/az for travel mainly for rich field stuff under dark skies (planets won't really be my visual interest as I have that covered) and maybe get a decent GEM later on if I fancy some AP (which I expect I will!). That AS 102APO seems to pack a decent punch and is a scope that I expect would not need to change if I try some AP.

And as I just got me a 17mm Ethos I may as well stick with quality!

Cost is always an issue but over the years I'll forget how much I paid in one go

Thanks for the PM Olly.

Edit: Worth adding that my home sky gets very dark on occasion so richfield use in my garden should be excellent too.

[John]

....And as I just got me a 17mm Ethos I may as well stick with quality!

Cost is always an issue but over the years I'll forget how much I paid in one go .....

I've sometimes regretted buying cheap stuff but I've never had regrets when I've been able to afford quality.

[ollypenrice]

I've sometimes regretted buying cheap stuff but I've never had regrets when I've been able to afford quality.[/quote

Ditto, and I've pushed the boat out on occasion...

Olly

[EssexMigrant]

Personally I think the price of a grab n go is up to the individual. What's expensive to me, might be peanuts to others.

Therefore I would be resistant to tell others what price a grab n go scope should be.

It also may depend how much grab n going the individual does. If you have an observatory in the back yard it's unlikely a grab n go will get much use. If on the other hand you are a truck driver on continental work a good grab n go in the cab will be worth spending a considerable amount on. Certainly more than £100.

Regards Steve

Hi Steve,

If as I suspect this was a dig at me, I'd like to point out two things. Firstly I didn't TELL anybody anything, and secondly, I ended my post stating that this was only MY opinion.

Cheers

Max

[Trull]

My grab and go is a Lightbridge 12", and I recommended a StarBlast for a mate and he (and his kids) love it as they can grab it from the cupboard and go plunk it on the picnic table and observe happily. No worries about batteries, no collimation worries and its under 200notes so even it it gets wrecked its not breaking the bank.