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Police fight back on laser threat

mike.brightmore

By mike.brightmore
in The Astro Lounge

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Rebus

Rebus

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I was wondering about their legality when I saw one being used on the recent Stargazing Live program.

I'm sure the aviation authorities might have something to say about them being pointed into the night sky . . .

As already mentioned, it really does come down to responsible behaviour with them by astronomers.

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Brent

Brent

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Yes, I can't use them I'm afraid, as I live about 2 miles from an airport.

Well, I suppose I could, but I think any pilot who sees one (even not shining directly into the cockpit) will report it, and I don't want a visit from the police.

There are too many planes and helicopters criss-crossing the skies here, and it's bad enough pointing a long tube into the sky when the police helicopter goes over at 60 feet!

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Macavity

Macavity

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Oops. I suppose, for my part, receiving an unsolicited and coincidental promotion of "Wicked Lasers" on Twitter. I hadn't realised that Twitter supported such advertising - The only previous example being (the band) OASIS advertising fairly boring stuff too... :) :)

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mike.brightmore

mike.brightmore

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To answer Capricorn's query - lasers are still a problem to aircraft and I found as recently as last night that some newcomers to stargazing are unaware of the dangers. We do get a great many beginners joining this forum so I thought it worth highlighting again. The article is a few years old but describes the problem well and the measures being taken to combat it. Its the only one I've seen that vividly shows the effect of a green laser strike inside an aircraft cockpit. For my part I would not like to see laser pens getting banned as a result of accidental or irresponsible use.

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UnderTheRain

UnderTheRain

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I was wondering about their legality when I saw one being used on the recent Stargazing Live program.

I'm sure the aviation authorities might have something to say about them being pointed into the night sky . . .

As already mentioned, it really does come down to responsible behaviour with them by astronomers.

Did you also notice all the aircraft flying by when they were using that pointer? I saw two if not three so I messaged in asking what thier views were, no one answered but I didn't see them using a pointer after.

I live miles away from any airports (an hours drive at least to any major airport) but there seems to be an air 'corridor' that is above where I live I walked to work the other day at 7am and counted 17 jets in the sky so as soon as they started using pointers on sg live I started looking for planes on the show and yes you could see them. I don't use lasers but there are apps you can get on your phone or web sites you can use like flightradar24 to check for aircraft (well large jets) before you use a pointer. And as long as people are responsible.

I think last time a laser thread came up I wrote a small essay on the dangers of laser pointers to the operator let alone planes I won't rehash it here just search for it and have a read.

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cathalferris

cathalferris

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Generally the planes flying at cruise altitude are far enough away that the average laser pointer has dispersed enought that there is not much likelihood of a dazzling effect. My lasers have an approximate divergence of about 1.5m per kilometre. Cruising aircraft at about 30 degrees up flying at 30,000 feet are about 18 km away, giving a circle of laser light about 27m wide. Not that bright really - and probably not enough to cause dazzle effects in the cockpit.

Now it's a different situation with aircraft on approach or circling overhead as tehy may be within a few hundred metres of the laser user, with a tighter and much brighter beam and a good chance of a temporary dazzle.

Of course one cannot be guaranteed that the plane in view is far enough away not to be affected by the laser flash, but I wouldn't think that it's a big deal for planes at altitude.

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StarryEyes

StarryEyes

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That technology is impressive to allow them to catch the culprits. I thought about getting a laser pointer a while back but have always been a bit weary of it in case of accidentally causing a problem to aircraft. I don't live particularly close to the airport but a lot of flight paths pass trough the airspace above where I live.

Its not just aircraft that suffer from idiotic use of laser pointers either, a few times I have encountered them whilst driving. Someone in a car behind me was shining one in my mirrors and another time I was sat at some traffic lights and the whole time someone was tracing all around inside my car and me with one, which was very unnerving especially when I couldn't see where it was coming from.

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Kit-Fox

Kit-Fox

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I tihnk its worth remembering in all this that lasers that are legal to use in public spaces are not powerful to hurt anyones eyes or travel great distances even in the night.

So while its possible they could for a very brief period of time blind a pilot of a jet, it is very unlikley to occur unless the aircraft is deliberately targetted.

The problem comes that there is no real restriciton on the actual sale of more powerful lasers which can be damaging to the eyes & travel for quite a distance

EDIT: Of course this doesnt mean you shouldnt exercise your brain when choosing a laser pointer to buy and when to use it, i'm just trying to highlight that while there is a problem, it should be remembered its not all lasers & not all uses of lasers (ie we shouldnt let the powers that be, throw the baby out with the bathwater)

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Kit-Fox

Kit-Fox

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I just bought a class 2 green laser for Astronomy use (careful and limited) surely it wont be powerful enough to reach 30,000 feet will it?

Sent from my HTC Desire using Tapatalk

Its not just commercial liner jets you have to worry about tho, you have to worry about helicopters, smaller private planes and military flights if they have any paths over your area.

All of these can be quite low sometimes, you also have microlites and gliders, not to mention skydivers (ok so you get less of these at night, but still you have to think carefully and check up about the uses of the airspace over you)

EDIT: You also have to think about aircraft on descent or ascent if your anywhere near an airfield

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JimStan

JimStan

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I bought a Celestron 5mw green laser especially constructed for amateur astronomy use. It is considerably dimmer than a couple of Chinese green laser pens I purchased just a short time ago. Just saying .

Jim S.

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badboybubby

badboybubby

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Its not just commercial liner jets you have to worry about tho, you have to worry about helicopters, smaller private planes and military flights if they have any paths over your area.

All of these can be quite low sometimes, you also have microlites and gliders, not to mention skydivers (ok so you get less of these at night, but still you have to think carefully and check up about the uses of the airspace over you)

EDIT: You also have to think about aircraft on descent or ascent if your anywhere near an airfield

Skydivers and Microlites in the middle of night? Think not....

I'm careful and check above me before I use it and even then its very infrequent.

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Kit-Fox

Kit-Fox

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Skydivers and Microlites in the middle of night? Think not....

I'm careful and check above me before I use it and even then its very infrequent.

You'd be surprised, it is indeed possible to skydive at night & you can get a licence to allow you to do so over designated spots, also the military do night time skydives as well so if you're near any airbases, there might be some.

Also microlites have been known to fly at night, it is un-usual yes, but it does happen espesically in the winter months when newer pilots underestimate how quickly it can become dark and if you're out to catch early views then you may just catch them (normally you'd hear them though I would think)

You just can't assume you are safe you know & misuses of lasers should be taken very seriously as it could lead to an outright banning (the usual knee-jerk reaction it seems from governments these days) of what can be a very useful tool & research instrument for some people

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laser_jock99

laser_jock99

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Generally the planes flying at cruise altitude are far enough away that the average laser pointer has dispersed enought that there is not much likelihood of a dazzling effect. My lasers have an approximate divergence of about 1.5m per kilometre. Cruising aircraft at about 30 degrees up flying at 30,000 feet are about 18 km away, giving a circle of laser light about 27m wide. Not that bright really - and probably not enough to cause dazzle effects in the cockpit.

Now it's a different situation with aircraft on approach or circling overhead as tehy may be within a few hundred metres of the laser user, with a tighter and much brighter beam and a good chance of a temporary dazzle.

Of course one cannot be guaranteed that the plane in view is far enough away not to be affected by the laser flash, but I wouldn't think that it's a big deal for planes at altitude.

I think you hit the nail on the head there- once you're a few metres away from these pointers you'd be hard pressed to do any lasting damage!

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Walky

Walky

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Skydivers and Microlites in the middle of night? Think not....

I'm careful and check above me before I use it and even then its very infrequent.

I live close to Orlando, Florida airport so I think it may be risky to use anything higher than 5mW. I could not forgive myself if I was to blame for any accident or injury to anyone. It's better to err in the side of caution than cause any harm. My question is, how would gov. police this?

I live near a lake with several alligators of all sizes and sometimes they come close to my fence; I can hear them during the mating season very close by. Would a higher powered laser be a good defensive technique?

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Kit-Fox

Kit-Fox

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I suspect that they are not as useful as normal viewfinders or descriptions of what to look for.

I recall at the local power station where my dad works one of the tour guys talking about using a laser pointer to point out objects and machinery to the various tour groups. He considered them as 'only useful if you can talk the group to the 'dot' of the laser' otherwise it seemed it could take some time for everyone to find the 'dot' and see what he was trying to showing them.

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