Ccd for £500ish for DSO?

[mottm]

Hello all,

I have settled on getting the SW 80ed & NEQ6 mount. I also want to get myself a ccd for £500ish for good DSO images. Any opions? Hopefully from FLO as this is where I'm getting my kit from but doesn't have to be.

Thanks all.

Mottm

[Stephen]

For £500 I'd suggest buying a DSLR

[Earl]

A Canon Eos 1000D will be a great starting point, Light Pollution Filter, and Reducer / Flattener.

There is your 500 spent

[LukeSkywatcher]

Yep a Canon 1000D DSLR will suffice.

And the means to attach it to the scope (t-ring and adapter) and bobs your uncle.

[mottm]

Thanks for you advice so far. If I went with the Canon 1000D DSLR would I need just the body or a zoom lens too? Also does this offer live view and computer control to take the pictures?

Thanks again.

[Black Knight]

If you are just going to connect to a scope, then just the body only. As has been already suggested, I would recommend getting a reducer/flattener as well. If you buy the Skywatcher reducer for the ED80, you'll need their own M48 Canon EOS adapter to attach to the camera, rather than a normal T-ring. I would also recommend having a look at either BackyardEOS or APT for automated exposure control - although many people cope very well with the normal Canon EOS utilities. Although that means of course you need a laptop connected to the camera. Failing that, a remote shutter cable .

If you live in a light polluted area, then some kind of LP filter is a good idea. The Astronomik clip filters are very good but quite expensive. I recently bought a 2" skywatcher LP filter that goes in the end of this FLO adapter http://www.firstlightoptics.com/adaptors/flo-adapter-for-skywatcher-focal-reducers.html.

Haven't had the sky to try it out yet

It all goes together like this:

Canon camera -> SW M48 adapter -> SW ED80 reducer -> FLO adapter -> SW 2" LP filter

... and the whole lot push fits into the ED80 focuser.

HTH

[daz]

The AtiK Titan is just ver £500 from FLO and is a dual purpose camera (has a 15 fps for lunar imaging)

See this thread for a dslr comparison: http://stargazerslounge.com/imaging-deep-sky/144332-m27-nikon-d3-v-atik-titan.html#post1834723

And here:

http://stargazerslounge.com/member-equipment-reviews/113664-atik-titan-mini-review.html

[ollypenrice]

You might find an Atik 16HR second hand for that price and while I greatly prefer CCD to DSLR the fact is that DSLRs are much cheaper and have chip sizes comparable with very, very expensive CCDs.

There is a bargain Atik 16ic on the for sale board at the moment but this has only a webcam sized chip. I'd love to see you moving into CCD one day but I can see the attractions of a DSLR if £500 is your budget.

Olly

[steppenwolf]

Also does this offer live view and computer control to take the pictures?

Yes and yes! For your budget, this would be an excellent starter. I love computer control of my cameras but with a DSLR, you could also use a programmable shutter release. However, the additional flexibility of use and increased ease of focusing by downloading your 'test' images onto the PC for viewing makes PC control very desirable.

[Uranium235]

As black knight said, if youre getting the reducer/flattener to go with the camera - the FLO adapter is a must-buy. It will make changing the camera orientation mid-session a million times easier.

Oh, dont forget to get a 2" extension tube too, otherwise the camera wont come to focus with an ED80 if youre not using the reducer/flattener (dont use the stock Skywatcher 2" extension - its awful). Other little "extras" might include a cleaning kit and a rocket blower to shift the odd speck of dust you might encounter.

[Budgie]

It's also worth mentioning that the standard DSLR really needs the filter over the chip replaced or removed as these block the Ha wavelength and will reduce the amount of detail that's captured from nebulars.

You can get a new, modified, DSLR from the likes of DSLR AstroMod with the EOS 1000D coming in at £430.

[red dwalf]

a mentioned above by Olly, there`s a atik 16ic in the for sale section, these cool to something like -20, so can get away without darks. chip is small compaired to dslr`s but these cameras are made for the job, theres also a fill set of astonomik filters for sale on astro buy and sell, was it something like £250 incliding ha and oIII, cheapish manual filter wheel and some hagling and you might have alittle change left out of £500.

[Bizibilder]

Be careful! The 1000D is no longer in production and may be expensive as few shops still have stock. The replacement is the 1100D which can be bought (body only) for under £300 new: Canon EOS 1100D Body from £299.00, UK Specialist Price Comparison Site, Camera Price Buster

[Tinker1947]

I think all DSLR's have a 30 second max exposure time..??? I use a android phone with digital stop watch App for longer exposures, there are other ways to do this but with a CCD and a laptop/pc sitting in the warm while the CCD churns out 5 min exposure one after the other might be nice.

[Bizibilder]

Not so, Tinker. Most have a "Bulb" setting this allows any exposure length you wish - one push on the exposure button for "open shutter" and a second for "close". Often used with either a remote timer or computer and appropriate software (Canon utility does the job and comes with the camera).

[ollypenrice]

a mentioned above by Olly, there`s a atik 16ic in the for sale section, these cool to something like -20, so can get away without darks. chip is small compaired to dslr`s but these cameras are made for the job, theres also a fill set of astonomik filters for sale on astro buy and sell, was it something like £250 incliding ha and oIII, cheapish manual filter wheel and some hagling and you might have alittle change left out of £500.

I do think you'd need darks with a 16ic. Mine have quite a glow in one corner.

Olly

[blackparticle]

Before buying a DSLR, I'd ask some questions about when the Starlight Xpress Lodestar HR will be released (and cost). If they follow the trend of the current Lodestars then these will be available in mono and colour versions and should be around 1.4 MP+ (at a guess)

Like the current Lodestars, I don't think they will have cooling but they are ultra-sensitive and have a very low dark current. I did a trial imaging run with mine and dark frames effectively removed the hot-pixels and whatever noise there was.

The other option is to hunt around for a s/h CCD bargain like suggested. I picked up an SXVF-M8C for £400 in preference to a modded DSLR and I am very glad that I did.

I had been using a Pentax K10D which has the same Sony SuperHAD ICX493AQA sensor as the SXVR-M26C and the main reason I wanted an astro-CCD over DSLR was that I found that correctly applying dark frames was a nightmare. The higher the ambient temperature, the more accurately the temperature of the dark frame has to match the light frame or else it mis-matches badly and adds just as much noise as you're trying to remove. DSLRs with their massive chips do really start to suffer from amp glow and noise the longer the exposure time. In the end I just switched the "auto-dark" noise reduction feature back on and sacrificed half my imaging time while the camera took its own dark frame.

Scarily, in the real world, this comparison means that you're paying £500 for the camera and £2000 for cooling !!

The other advantage of getting something like the Lodestar HR, Titan or 16IC is that you've also got your guide camera sorted for when the upgrade bug kicks in.

Alan

[mottm]

Thanks all for the advice.

Seems the 1000d is the way to go with the advice. But ccd is still at the back of my mind. Unfortunately I do not have the access yet to the buy part of SGL.

Glad to hear you can control the DSLR from a laptop.

Thanks Dark Knight for the easy diagram of attachments needed. This is an easy format and helps a lot.

Now which part of my mind will win, DSLR or CCD, mmmmm.

Mottm.

[Tinker1947]

Not so, Tinker. Most have a "Bulb" setting this allows any exposure length you wish - one push on the exposure button for "open shutter" and a second for "close". Often used with either a remote timer or computer and appropriate software (Canon utility does the job and comes with the camera).

As i said i have a Android App for more than 30 seconds, but it means you have to be there to push the "bulb" button, a CCD is fully automated and no time limit so 30 5 minute frames from one button press. Then get a 2nd scope for viewing...

[Stephen]

As i said i have a Android App for more than 30 seconds, but it means you have to be there to push the "bulb" button, a CCD is fully automated and no time limit so 30 5 minute frames from one button press. Then get a 2nd scope for viewing...

My Fuji is fully automated with the right software? Pretty sure Canon has a couple of third party apps for full automation, not sure about Nikons.

Not sure what your point is, but limited length of exposure is not one that's relevant

[Tinker1947]

My Fuji is fully automated with the right software? Pretty sure Canon has a couple of third party apps for full automation, not sure about Nikons.

Not sure what your point is, but limited length of exposure is not one that's relevant

Not for a single shot, but 20 or 30 5 minute type which require your finger on a button make it relevant, as Mottm started the post asking for a information, so this is not a one's better than the other but the limitations with out extra expense a automated CCD or a manually operated DSLR if the shots are longer than 30 seconds..

[blackparticle]

You can get wired remotes for DSLR's for about £15 that let you set exposure time, delay interval and number of shots. Used in bulb mode means you can set up runs lasting hours and not have to monitor the camera at all.

[Stephen]

Not for a single shot, but 20 or 30 5 minute type which require your finger on a button make it relevant, as Mottm started the post asking for a information, so this is not a one's better than the other but the limitations with out extra expense a automated CCD or a manually operated DSLR if the shots are longer than 30 seconds..

Let me try and clarify what I'm saying - I should add I have and use both based on what I'm trying to do.

My finger never touches the DSLR during a night of imaging. Nor does it press a button on the computer to take the next long exposure.

You need a computer for using a CCD yes? This then is not an additional expense if we're considering a DSLR.

Using the computer I can fully automate my DSLR to take images all night long at the exposure length I want in EXACTLY the same way I do my CCD.

I don't think the limitation you are describing really exists?

[bamus]

Not for a single shot, but 20 or 30 5 minute type which require your finger on a button make it relevant, as Mottm started the post asking for a information, so this is not a one's better than the other but the limitations with out extra expense a automated CCD or a manually operated DSLR if the shots are longer than 30 seconds..

not sure if I am understanding what you are trying to say, buy all canon DSLR can be controlled by remote or laptop and software is controlling exposure times and amount of exposures, so you do not have to do it manually.

[Tinker1947]

not sure if I am understanding what you are trying to say, buy all canon DSLR can be controlled by remote or laptop and software is controlling exposure times and amount of exposures, so you do not have to do it manually.

Your right but its my belief that the DSLR will only work like this with shots up to 30 seconds, any longer require the "bulb" setting, this requires a bit of kit from a 3rd part vendor to automate it...at a further cost to the price of the camera. I use a Nikon D80 with a wired remote also have the infra red remote but shots longer than 30 seconds require me to press and release the remote button for every shot, there is at a cost a extra bit of kit to do this but its a extra cost.