EQ6 belt drive modification

[Zakalwe]

The guiding certainly would seem to be improved by this mod though in my case I wonder if the mount is the culprit in poorer PHD graphs. There's certainly backlash - I can move the mount a noticeable amount by hand in each axis but by deliberately using a slightly unbalanced setup I think this should be overcome. The noise doesn't bother me now I've got used to it and know it's normal. I guess I should record the PE and see if it's bad enough to warrant fiddling with the mount. I may get better guiding when I get to test my new (to me) MN190 with OAG as that would rule out any movement between main and guide scopes. It could be worse, of course, for other reasons. Anyway, mount mods won't be any time yet - too many other things to do.

Try tuning the wormwheels as per the Astro-Baby guide. My EQ6 was a bit "sloppy", especially on the DEC axis. I adjusted the worms and it has made a massive difference.

[Zakalwe]

That's an interesting find - it's just the price tag of €129 made me shudder slightly

That's interesting, though €120 for 4 pulleys and 2 belts is a bit "spendy", to say the least. There's about £15 of materials at the most in there.....

[philming]

Yes but producing the exact right length / wheel sizes and so on in a few numbers must be expensive.

Remember thos ones maintain the proper ratios on our mount and do not require to use eqmod.

The guy who designed this said it was complicated to implement and needed some special tools and mods on the mount itself. I wonder how it is done and wish there was a clear how-to on the internet somewhere... (he suggests doing it himself for a fee, but this would require sending the mount to hungaria...)

[ncjunk]

One thing though could you people who have modded the NEQ6 please tell me how long it took and how long your mount was out of action? Thank you

Gina, if you´re talking about how long to do Georges mod with the 2 pullies then it is about 2 days. I did one 4 hour stint to take it apart, whilst taking photos. Then a couple of hours to clean everything and check the alignments. Finally 4 hours to put it all back together and test it.

You can easily do it quicker than that but be carefull to check the width of the 48 tooth gear as mine was slightly too wide and rubbed against the housing. It was for that reason that I took it all apart again and put the gears back in (This is the great thing about the mod, if you have problems you can just strip it and put it back how it was).

Its a nice mod to play around with as there is minimal risk of destroying the mount and you can reset it all if you want.

I would say that if your guiding is ok then don´t strip the mount just try adjusting the slack but if you want to play and have a bit of fun its a nice mod.

Edited April 11, 2013 by ncjunk

[Zakalwe]

Yes but producing the exact right length / wheel sizes and so on in a few numbers must be expensive.

Remember thos ones maintain the proper ratios on our mount and do not require to use eqmod.

The guy who designed this said it was complicated to implement and needed some special tools and mods on the mount itself. I wonder how it is done and wish there was a clear how-to on the internet somewhere... (he suggests doing it himself for a fee, but this would require sending the mount to hungaria...)

The parts would be bought in and modified. having said that, how much would a machinist charge to modify? £50 per hour?

Given that, I'd guess that €129 is there or thereabouts by the time you'd packaged them, invoiced them and made some profit.

[JamesF]

I need to have words with motionco about belt lengths as twice now the belts they sent were not the length I ordered. The labels were for what I ordered but the belts in the bag were different with a note on the label, hand written saying "MARKED BY LENGTH" eg. this photo shows a 75 tooth belt I ordered with the actual belt being 60 teeth.

That's rather unimpressive

James

[JamesF]

There was a heavily abused NEQ6 on ebay recently close enough for me to consider driving to pick up. I was thinking about it for a test belt mod conversion, but in the end it went for far more than I was prepared to pay.

James

[malc-c]

The parts would be bought in and modified. having said that, how much would a machinist charge to modify? £50 per hour?

Given that, I'd guess that €129 is there or thereabouts by the time you'd packaged them, invoiced them and made some profit.

The market for belt drive conversion is really quite small, especially if you change the default SW ratio for a 4:1 or 5:1 ratio which requires EQMod to control the mount. I received around 6 requests for HEQ5 "kits" initially, and even on this batch process the machining costs were more expensive than the complete set of parts put together. There costs involved a setting up charge as each part had to be machined by hand on a mill / lathe - no CNC stuff, just old fashioned craftsmanship, and being a business were looking at making a small profit. The drawback with using a 3rd party to machine the parts was time - it took 4 weeks for them to fit my order in

The second batch was a lot simpler as Belting Online expanded their business to offer a machining service, so you ended up with the stock pulleys machined to specification delivered direct to the door in around 7-10 days, but the cost of the machining still doubled the cost of a stock part, still not cheap, but saved time. You then need to factor in the packaging, producing the instructions, and postage costs or in the original order, petrol costs for going to and from the machine shop. This all added up wasn't far off the cost of those commercial kits, and I wasn't doing the project for a profit.

@gina - Contact Belting Online. I've never had an issue with any order for belts or pulleys, and their service is quick.

[Gina]

Thank you Malcolm

[Gina]

They certainly do a good range of timing belts I realised I had been on their site before but had forgotten about it

.

[Zakalwe]

The market for belt drive conversion is really quite small, especially if you change the default SW ratio for a 4:1 or 5:1 ratio which requires EQMod to control the mount. I received around 6 requests for HEQ5 "kits" initially, and even on this batch process the machining costs were more expensive than the complete set of parts put together. There costs involved a setting up charge as each part had to be machined by hand on a mill / lathe - no CNC stuff, just old fashioned craftsmanship, and being a business were looking at making a small profit. The drawback with using a 3rd party to machine the parts was time - it took 4 weeks for them to fit my order in

The second batch was a lot simpler as Belting Online expanded their business to offer a machining service, so you ended up with the stock pulleys machined to specification delivered direct to the door in around 7-10 days, but the cost of the machining still doubled the cost of a stock part, still not cheap, but saved time. You then need to factor in the packaging, producing the instructions, and postage costs or in the original order, petrol costs for going to and from the machine shop. This all added up wasn't far off the cost of those commercial kits, and I wasn't doing the project for a profit.

I guess that all makes sense. After all, if you had to employ a professional machinist to make small volumes then it'd cost a far bit. And the market just isn't there to CNC up small batches profitably.

I've been chatting to Tommy at the shop in question. The mount needs a bit of fettling to work with their kit as well..holes opening up and so on.

[George]

I had my first pulleys done by a so called experienced amateur lathe freak of a friend of mine....he made a right mess of the small pulley, it was wobbling like a drunk who'd just had 10 pints. I ended up buying a mini lathe and doing my own, the mini lathe has started a whole new hobby

[Zakalwe]

I had my first pulleys done by a so called experienced amateur lathe freak of a friend of mine....he made a right mess of the small pulley, it was wobbling like a drunk who'd just had 10 pints. I ended up buying a mini lathe and doing my own, the mini lathe has started a whole new hobby

I am resisting the siren call of buying a mini lather and miller. I can see another money pit opening in the garage if I capitulate....

[sloz1664]

It would be a hell of a lot cheaper to to get the pulley manufacturers to modify the pulleys for you.

And the money you will save can buy..................... Tak.........

[Gina]

Not as much fun though

[Corpze]

How much better is the beltdrive vs the original geardrive? i thinking about ordering belt and pulleys from these guys: http://www.fingertechrobotics.com/how-to_pulley_belt.php but which pulleys?

[nightvision]

How much better is the beltdrive vs the original geardrive? i thinking about ordering belt and pulleys from these guys: http://www.fingertec...pulley_belt.php but which pulleys?

Or.... http://www.teleskop-austria.at/shop/index.php?lng=eng&m=2&kod=sbau-bor-das-6p&skod=%2017&om=Mounts

[Corpze]

Well... it´s kind of pricey... could get it for 12.7 Euros instead if i know the ratio maybee it isnt even close... the important thing is that i can use it without EQmod...

// Daniel

[malc-c]

How much better is the beltdrive vs the original geardrive? i thinking about ordering belt and pulleys from these guys: http://www.fingertec...pulley_belt.php but which pulleys?

Part of the consideration is that the small pulley needs boring out to 5mm. From my trials when developing the HEQ5 conversion, the minimum size pulley which works is a 15 tooth. The 12 tooth pulleys simply don't have enough material in the centre hub to allow the hole to be bored out, resulting in failure when under tension. They don't list pulleys larger than 42 teeth, which won't give you the correct ratio.

I too looked at purchasing a mini lathe, but the cheapest was around £500 and that would require a lot of kits to be sold to recover the investment, and I don't have a need to use the lathe on a regular basis. The other advantage in having someone like Belting Online perform the machining is that you can reject the part if its not machined to specification and have a replacement sent free of charge. However I've never had any issue with the machining they provide and each pulley has been well with in specification.

[nightvision]

Malcolm, any chance of a brief summary of the advantages the belt drive delivers?

[George]

Malcolm, any chance of a brief summary of the advantages the belt drive delivers?

At the beginning of the thread somewhere I posted before and after tracking screenshots, also some data that Chris analysed and commented on. The verdict was very much in favour of a good return to the mounts performance for a quite small outlay.

[nightvision]

At the beginning of the thread somewhere I posted before and after tracking screenshots, also some data that Chris analysed and commented on. The verdict was very much in favour of a good return to the mounts performance for a quite small outlay.

Thanks George that really helps, such a long thread!

[malc-c]

Malcolm, any chance of a brief summary of the advantages the belt drive delivers?

In a nutshell:

• Quiet operation - no graunching sound at the start and end of the slews
  
• Better goto alignment (especially in an observatory set up when used with EQMods multi-point map)
  
• Less backlash - the only element is the worm gear as all the slop in the triple gear train is removed
  
• If EQMod is used, and the 4:1 (or any other X:1 ) ratio used the PE can be corrected more precisely
  
• If guided imaging is your thing, the fact that a lot of backlash is removed means better tracking accuracy
  

As George has stated, for around £100 (or less if you have access to the machines) it improves the mounts performance for, when compared to most accessories, is little outlay

[nightvision]

Thanks for the update Malcolm, just read most of the thread and it looks like it's worth doing. I think I will go for the Austrian kit (about £120 delivered), I counted the teeth in the image and there looks to be 47 on the larger cog. I use EQMod via the handset so everything should remain the same.

[malc-c]

Tony,

If you use EQMod, connected either by an EQDIR / EQDirect cable or to the handset with it set to PC Direct mode, you can use a 60t and 15t pulley set from belting online and set EQMod to use a 4:1 ratio from the drop down options within the set up. The only reason for using the kit from Austria is if you want to use the handset on its own to control the mount. However, as this kit uses the default ratio, you may still have the same issues dialing out the PE.

Just my 2p worth. At the end of the day its your cash