Odd Moon Phenomenon...tell me what it is!

[Astrokev]

Mmm, very interesting. No suggestions but agree they do not look meteoric or like any optical artefact.

[Sp@ce_d]

I just watched the video on a large screen, and it is my opinion that there is another object on the lower right side of the Moon at 0:47.

You'll have to watch the smaller picture on the left to see it. Could someone confirm?

Hmm interesting.. there's also a couple at that location at 0:09 & 0:013

[Astrodread]

I reckon they are a group of geostationary satellites in orbit round the earth

[nightvision]

I just watched the video on a large screen, and it is my opinion that there is another object on the lower right side of the Moon at 0:47.

You'll have to watch the smaller picture on the left to see it. Could someone confirm?

Yes I see it! They all have similar behaviour and appearance; direction, time in view, colour change and size are close. It should be possible to estimate their apparent size and apparent orbital altitude and velocity. Calculator time; I will project on to a 100" screen and do some measuring.

[Heliocentric]

Anyone else?

I don't see that many alternatives to some type of space rock breaking up over the Moon in slow orbit, only to crash at the dark side,

As to seismographs detecting it, has there been any reading since the Apollo Passive Seismic Experiment (which recorded seismic Moon activity until late-1977)?

[Dave]

Definitely NOT occultations as the Moon orbits in the opposite direction. The objects would be moving to the right of the Moon if this was the case. My guess is they are either artifacts in the camera and optical setup, or geostationary satellites. The Earths rotation would move the Moon through their field in a similar manner and in this direction.

But I do question if the movement seems a bit too fast for this?

Dave

[todd8137]

looks strange i have maybe 50 hours of moon footage and have never seen any thing like that before

pat

[Heliocentric]

My guess is they are either artifacts in the camera and optical setup, or geostationary satellites.

If they're artifacts in the camera (that is, not dirt or droplets on the camera lens which would be out of focus), wouldn't similar phenomenon turn up in his other Moon clips?

I believe tetenterre checked geostationaries, but found no match (apart from possibly debris from FengYun 1C, too small to register).

[RobH]

Still looks like birds at very high altitude to me.

[Heliocentric]

Excuse me for being skeptic to all your theories, I just try to punch a hole in them to see if they stand the test

If they're birds, why do they all (I've counted eight) appear right on on the Moon horizon, only to loop inwards toward the Moon? If I saw just one bird go in the other direction (come out of the moon), or make a different motion, it would be convincing.

But I agree that as other theories fall apart, it grows in strength.

Is there any footage of birds creating a similar phenomenon?

[BinocularSky]

I believe tetenterre checked geostationaries, but found no match

To be precise, I checked geostationaries at the time stated for the clip -- the geostationary position was about 10* higher.

In this screenshot, from the approximate location of Eindhoven and centred on the Moon, the yellow line is the horizon, the red is the ecliptic, and the white crosses are separated by 30min in RA and 10* in dec; the horizon and ecliptic marks are also 10*. The altitude of the Moon will decrease with time; that of the geostationaries will not; on 2011 Jul 09, observed from Eindhoven, the Moon never attained the altitude of the geostationaries.

This is why I thought possibly geosynchronous, as opposed to geostationary.

[Astrokev]

Still looks like birds at very high altitude to me.

As a bit of a bird watcher, I have to disagree with this suggestion. No evidence of typical flight action and they are far, far too bright, even if illuminated by the full moon, the only possible source of illumination.

[meteoriot]

Has any one looked if there any professional investigations going on into this?

[Heliocentric]

Has any one looked if there any professional investigations going on into this?

This is the professional investigation

That said, the clip was filmed five days ago, so I guess the wheels have just been set in motion.

Let's hope someone at ESA surfs this forum and decides to spend the weekend solving the mystery.

[Zakalwe]

I'm guessing either a camera-created artefact, or a post-processing artefact. If they were "space-debris" then I would guess that they would have to be huge to appear that size and at that distance.

The video will have been compressed by the camera at capture, and then again prior to loading onto the computer. Perhaps again by Youtube, so I'm calling it as computer/imaging artefacts.

[Zakalwe]

In fact, looking at the movie again, I think that it is a lighting reflection of some sort.

The Moon's motion across the field-of-view is left to right. All of the "objects" appear near the approaching edge of the moon, and appear as white lights, then turn dark as they cross the bright edge of the Moon, then disappear into the brightness of the lunar disc. If there was something refracting or reflecting the light in the optical train, then it would be invisible until illuminated by the brightness of the moon. It would get brighter as the light from the moon got nearer. It would (especially if it was a fleck of dust, or possible a droplet of water) then disappear as the body of the moon passed over it, as it would be swamped by the brightness.

If you hold a pointer on the objects (in the left hand pane) you will see that the object doesn't actually move. When you look at the object in the right-hand pane, the object appears to move but only because the movie has been cropped and the lunar limb doesn't move. The apparent movement is cause by the moon's image moving across the field of view.

[Sp@ce_d]

Reflections? Hmmm.. You could be on to something there.. they do look like very small Moons in fact..

Trust No One.. The Truth is out there..

[meteoriot]

Reflections? Hmmm.. You could be on to something there.. they do look like very small Moons in fact..

Trust No One.. The Truth is out there..

How would a reflection change from a light colour infront of the blackness of space to a dark colour as it passed in front of the moon?

if it were an actual object then maybe it isn't changing brightness but we actually see it's shadow as it passes infront of the moon?

Richard

[Zakalwe]

How would a reflection change from a light colour infront of the blackness of space to a dark colour as it passed in front of the moon?

if it were an actual object then maybe it isn't changing brightness but we actually see it's shadow as it passes infront of the moon?

Richard

If it was refracted light (from say a tiny drop of water, or from a chip in some of the glass in the optical train), then yes, it would. The refracted light (by dint of being refracted) appears to be coming from a different source.

Go back to the point that the "objects" only appear to move in the right hand pane- the pane where there is no apparent movement in the lunar limb. In the LH pane, the moon moves but the objects do not.

Also, everyone is jumping to conclusions based on a highly compressed movie file (using lossy compression). I would make no judgements until I saw the original file. And if that file was taken using a process that used any form of compression (lossy or otherwise) then I would be deeply suspicious. After all, do you not think that huge objects circling the moon (and they would have to be huge to cast a shadow that large) would have spotted by others?

[Sp@ce_d]

After all, do you not think that huge objects circling the moon (and they would have to be huge to cast a shadow that large) would have spotted by others?

But maybe he was lucky and caught them just as they were changing their cloaking algorithm ...

ok.. sry couldn't resist..

[meteoriot]

But maybe he was lucky and caught them just as they were changing their cloaking algorithm ...

ok.. sry couldn't resist..

I was more thinking it was the decepticons

[meteoriot]

If it was refracted light (from say a tiny drop of water, or from a chip in some of the glass in the optical train), then yes, it would. The refracted light (by dint of being refracted) appears to be coming from a different source.

Go back to the point that the "objects" only appear to move in the right hand pane- the pane where there is no apparent movement in the lunar limb. In the LH pane, the moon moves but the objects do not.

Also, everyone is jumping to conclusions based on a highly compressed movie file (using lossy compression). I would make no judgements until I saw the original file. And if that file was taken using a process that used any form of compression (lossy or otherwise) then I would be deeply suspicious. After all, do you not think that huge objects circling the moon (and they would have to be huge to cast a shadow that large) would have spotted by others?

If no one else has witnessed or recorded this independent to this recording(?) then judging by the amount of people I would GUESS to be viewing the moon at any one given moment that whatever it is must be unique to this recording and therefor highly likely to be some kind of 'illusion' but if there are more observations like it then I would doubt that.

I haven't come to my own conclusion yet but I do not really understand how refracted light could possibly create this effect so I leave that part to others on here. I just don't get how the objects could change from a bright light when infront of the darkness of space to a dark patch as they become infront of the illuminated moon unless they are real objects. However as I said I'll leave that to others

Richard

[meteoriot]

This looks quite similar

[meteoriot]

I also remember this image popping up in a book and a magazine I read a long time ago of a supposed structure of some sort on the moon.

Please let me know if you can see the image as I'm not sure this mobile phone app is working?

Richard

[Heliocentric]

Also, everyone is jumping to conclusions based on a highly compressed movie file (using lossy compression). I would make no judgements until I saw the original file. And if that file was taken using a process that used any form of compression (lossy or otherwise) then I would be deeply suspicious. After all, do you not think that huge objects circling the moon (and they would have to be huge to cast a shadow that large) would have spotted by others?

I don't think people are jumping to conclusions. I think they've presented some sound theories. The conclusions are for later.

Have you got any footage to share that gives a good example what you're talking about? I've been spending time looking at Moon clips. Full moons, waxing gibbous, waning gibbous, waxing crescents, waning crescents, some of them show refraction, others have dirt or droplets on the lens or other types of optic aberrations. The thing is, you can more or less tell. But the "Something With the Moon" video is different. It really looks like these objects are in proximity of the Moon, or at least at high altitude. I could be wrong, but that's what it looks like.

Another thing is that the filmmaker has two other Moon videos posted, one three days older than the SWTM clip, the other four days older. All taken with the same camera under similar conditions, showing the Moon. There are however no strange optical or compression effects in these videos. They are mint. It doesn't prove anything, but it is an indication that we're not looking at a camera problem.

I agree with you that - as we run out of plausible explanations - someone should take a closer look at the original footage, and perhaps even the camera. But I still think the odds are higher that this is some type of celestial event, and that we shouldn't write it off as an 'equipment problem' just yet simply because we can't explain it.

If you have a link or some footage that illustrates well a similar type of phenomenon (that you know is optical or compression related) I'm willing to change my mind though.