Anti street light social networking site group !

[yesyes]

Applied to join the group. Though it doesn't not seem to be called "Turn off all street lights" as you said but "Anti street light group".

[The Sailor]

It is important. Definitely. *thumbs up*

But I think Sailor was joking when he said street lights rule He's an astronomer and judging by the sad smilie next to 'East Anglia' he aint too happy with the light pollution there.

No, I was not joking, I would rather have my security than a hobby. I am prepared to put up with street lights, living on a sink estate makes it a requirement, the sad smiley is right for this place. I understand why posters want action on lights but we are a minority and I am not interested in what is said where, when and the why's of criminal behaviour. Street lights are a comfort to a hell of a lot more people than the stargazers wanting them off. When a minority start dictating to local government over the heads of the majority then chaos reigns.

Jim

[yesyes]

It's not just the astronomers. Light at night is also a major cause of sleeping disorders and it also badly affects wildlife. The night is supposed to be dark. Life evolved around that fact and we humans think we have the right to change that.

[callisto]

Sounds like a great idea. You will always get someone scaremongering about increases in crime etc but how can they say that if we dont try.

Exactly right!.....Ive just won a 5 month battle with Newcastle city council.

At the back of where I live, there is an old comp school turned into a adult college which has something to do with social services, Anyway from 3:30pm to 2:00am they have several security lights shining onto a empty car park.

My wife phoned up the citys civic centre, which passed her onto someone from the environmental side of things. Once she explained about the lights, they said they would get back in touch with us pending enquiries.

A week went by then we got a telephone call from the environment guy saying he spoke to the relevant people and they have said the lights were on for security, I was not happy with this and explaining there is a 20 foot metal fence with barbed wire all around the school the guy said that he would once again look into it and get back in touch with us.

In the meantime I took it upon myself to take some photos with the date and time on them and send to the environmental people. Then just last week the guy from the environmental dept called to say the council are going to reduce the time the lights go off as there is money getting wasted on an empty car park.

As from yesterday, the security lights come on at 3:30pm and go off at.....wait for it.....7:30pm, result, dark skies all night

Good things come to those who wait

Mark.

[darkly]

I would support this but I refuse to use social networking sites, too many personnel departments and managers monitor them for my liking and you can't predict what people are going to say.

I know other people who feel the same way.

Perhaps an online petition here with SGL would be easier and more accessible.

Please don't get me wrong, I think the idea is very very good. :)

[astroimpulse]

No, I was not joking, I would rather have my security than a hobby. I am prepared to put up with street lights, living on a sink estate makes it a requirement, the sad smiley is right for this place. I understand why posters want action on lights but we are a minority and I am not interested in what is said where, when and the why's of criminal behaviour. Street lights are a comfort to a hell of a lot more people than the stargazers wanting them off. When a minority start dictating to local government over the heads of the majority then chaos reigns.

Jim

Fair enough.

Both sides have no proof of who the majority is though. It's all dogmatic.

Everyone I meet (old or young) seems to think they should be dimmer. Regardless of safety. And I know many from very bad areas. But pro-powerful light people probably equally know people who want them on 24/7.

There's both sides to it and nobody can say they're in the majority as it's not astronomers only who want better light. Not by a long shot.

I'd never suggest a blackout...no way. But Canada has shown the way with their street lights being dim (but more than bright enough for illuminating the streets) yet none of the light pollutes the sky or messes with nature.

There's 58 spot lights in a very small carpark behind our home. We've had to buy blackout blinds for our bedroom. 4 spot lights would illuminate the place throughout the night when it's completely unused. 58 lights is pathetic and not even reasonable with any scare rubbish. It's just illuminating a dead space because of laziness to improve the solution.

We have a right to safety...of course. But we don't have a right to pollute. This is not just our world. It's not just the world of people in scary areas.

[darkly]

When a minority start dictating to local government over the heads of the majority then chaos reigns.

Jim

Fair enough, I actually agree with your statement, but, there seem to be minorities and minorities, maybe we're the wrong kind of minority?

[Beulah]

It's not just the astronomers. Light at night is also a major cause of sleeping disorders and it also badly affects wildlife. The night is supposed to be dark. Life evolved around that fact and we humans think we have the right to change that.

QFT

[Pulpstar]

I changed the name of the group from Turn off all streetlights, to anti-streetlight as there are some places (junctions/roundabouts) that do need them.

I live in an area of mixed social and private housing, its certainly not 'rich', but I'd feel perfectly safe there with or without streetlights.

[astroimpulse]

The beauty is; a solution is there that satisfies everyone. Safety (lit area) and clear skies (better lighting).

Currently the solution in place only serves one aspect. That's not fair.

This is easily changed and benefits councils financially, people safely, nature naturally and the skies clearly

[Carbon Brush]

I can hardly believe the comments from The Sailor. Is my county (Nottinghamshire) exceptional? There are street lights on country roads. There are lights shining into gardens and onto rooves. There are street lights on an industrial estate not yet built, and not likely to be built on - there are concrete blocks accross the entrances. There are side streets where you can read small print at 3am. The list of stupidity just goes on. Forget this astronomy hobby. Think £££££. It is your money - taxpayer money - that is being wasted. Think greenhouse gases. Most of the electricity for these wasteful lights comes from fossil fuels. Think environment. most animals want a dark place to hunt, or forage, or rest. Where are the dark places? Answer, rapidly being eroded. If security is the issue, then the technology exists and is readily available. Low light cameras and motion detection. Simple.

[Ags]

The greenhouse gases caused by this lighting must be phenomenal. By way of illustration, if the streetlights down my road were replaced by equally bright bonfires, it would be a spectacular conflagration! Each of those lights equates to a pile of coal burning somewhere.

[The Sailor]

I can hardly believe the comments from The Sailor..

Good, well believe this, I am not an environrmentalist, I am not green, I like hunting, I like meat, I believe in nuclear defence, whilst I am on this earth I believe in my preservation, I use solar power to save money nothing more, I do not like NIMBYS, CHAVS or any so called pressure groups. I like CCTV, CS Gas and baton rounds, if anything else I will come back and amend.

Jim

Changed Big Brother to CCTV, can't have you think I like that thrash

[iamjulian]

Really nice idea, however, you have made it a group where people have to apply to become members. On facebook you can make exactly the same type of page, but rather than a group where people have to join, they can just click a button saying like. You'll get WAY more members if you do that.

[beamish]

I'll say it again,

after numerous well respected,in-depth international studies in the USA, Australia and New Zealand, Canada. "Security" and "improved lighting " is a myth !!

C'mon think about it , with all the cameras and "improved security lighting" in this country, increasing year on year , HOW is it that instances of criminal activity and break-ins are still on the increase? Ask me all the lighting simply gives the thugs better vantage and sight !

Safety and lighting is something more akin to a faery tale, and is often proposed by groups/individuals with something to gain eg Police forces (reduced man power) and energy co.s, politicians who want your vote or stay in power and so feed the fear.

My 2p worth

[F64]

Yep agree I will be joining

[darkly]

Good, well believe this, I am not an environrmentalist, I am not green, I like hunting, I like meat, I believe in nuclear defence, whilst I am on this earth I believe in my preservation, I use solar power to save money nothing more, I do not like NIMBYS, CHAVS or any so called pressure groups. I like Big Brother, CS Gas and baton rounds, if anything else I will come back and amend.

Jim

Now, that's a mans post - throw more meat on the fire for the meat eaters.

Definately can't knock you on that mate, you know what you like and aren't afraid to say it.

I'd still like it a bit darker where I live though

[astroimpulse]

It's not a man's post. It's one man's post.

Worth mentioning without small pressure groups we'd have zero liberties whatsoever. Historical fact I'm afraid.

Keeping this on topic, see. No mention of my dietary preference or political preference

Moving on: anyone who thinks the cure to anti-social behaviour is street lighting is highly misinformed and scarily ignorant to the real problems of AS behaviour.

A solution doesn't have to take away safety. The correct solutions out there include safety as well as all other lighting caused issues. Better lighting is just that...better! But the current solution suits only the self-centered...unfortunately.

[darkly]

Okey dokey, back on topic, if we have to! :D

One thing, have you noticed how kids always hang around under street lights etc so they can see each other being stupid.

I'm sure I saw something somewhere where they turned off street lights at certain known gathering points and they moved on.

Kids play parks are lit late at night and that's where they head for underage drinking (I can think of one skate park at the Bridge of Don, there are often empty cans and broken glass there, oh, and sometimes syringes), turn off the lights and they'll have to go else where - worth a try anyway.

[Pulpstar]

A bit more searching on FB revealed Keep our Skies Dark - but again its a group although you don't have to wait to join unlikke mine. I have tried to create a page with their like button

'Save our night sky' as there is currently no page of this type with the 'like' feature. I feel I'm being a bit unsuccesful as the method of adding a like button to this type of page seems - well odd.

[Carbon Brush]

QUOTE Ags;The greenhouse gases caused by this lighting must be phenomenal.

The greenhouse gas production (and £££ spend) is phenomenal. If you consider lighting from coal burning power stations, you are looking at going on for 400Kg of coal burn, converting to over 800Kg of CO2 annually, for ONE 250W street lamp. To get this into perspective, just imagine all thoses bags of coal heaped around every lamp post on the street.

Orange skies are taxpayer £££. Forget green issues. Forget astronomers. If you work, or have savings, you pay taxes. Much of this goes to the sky.

I don't advocate a blanket 'switch off'. But I do advocate a complete re-think of what is needed to leave only those lights that are useful. To avoid any suggestion of a 'nimby' label. I would support evening dimming and late night turn off for the lights in my village - including those nearest my house. The road lighting does contribute to safety. But, in my opinion, traffic levels in early evening do not allow a safe switch off.

[Pulpstar]

David - A look at where needs lighting based upon a starting point of ZERO lights in the 'model' would be an excellent idea.

[skybadger]

There are some strong arguments made for this, strong in terms of emotive and anxious FUD rather than cogent arguments. Last time I read the Dark sky resources, there were some well-researched surveys of crime in lit vs unlit areas. unlit areas turned out better, against what the police association have to say.

I live in an unlit area of South Berks, the crime is pretty low, but I reckon that's because of the area - large army base and farmland. Would I want them to light it ? I have no reason to, apart from my wife wants to go running at night. Security schmurity is what you put in place yourself, lights on all the time just invite crime.

Mike

[Beulah]

.... apart from my wife wants to go running at night.

Mike

You don't need street lights to go running at night. I use an LED headtorch. (your mileage according to crime/traffic may vary)

[abettertomorrow]

wow - a lot of debate on this topic! the thing is that we - humanity - has to start reducing the amount of energy we consume. we're all encouraged to switch everything off when not using it. the price of energy is only going to go up. maybe the answer is somekind of motion sensitive street lamps? only on when needed?!