Binos or low power 2" SWAN EP....which should i buy this month??

[Wurzil]

Hi guys,

Its payday for me on friday and i was all set to buy a 38mm adler SWAN clone 2" EP and 2" star diagonal.

Its just occured to me that I could do some low power observing with a decent set of binos (i dont possess any at the moment).

My question is this - is it better for me to buy a set of binos this month and get the 2" EP and mirror diagonal at a later date or should i go for the EP as planned. And what binos should i get. I can spend about £80-90.

Basically I wanted the low power EP to scan the stars and really "open up the sky" - open clusters, the milky way etc etc. Will a set of binos gather enough light for open clusters to be visible even??

Ive seen a set of big Jupiter 20x80s for £90 (im assuming bigger is better with binos). oh and the celestron ones on flo look ok to me as well (and i might be able to stretch to that a and a rigel quick finder for my scope at a push hmmmmm).

any help appreciated

thanks

warren

[Taff]

Hi Warren' i have got a pair of 20x80 bins for £89.00 they give nice wide field views of the night sky with the open and globular clusters,and with the moon.I often use them when i got the scope out.Because of their weight they will have to go on a strong tripod.Mark

[Moonshane]

hi Warren

I'd plan for both of course (!!) but if you don't have bins at the mo I'd get some first.

Although a little above your budget I got a pair of Porroprism - Pentax 10x50 PCF WP II which are excellent

Quite hefty though and I find them tricky to keep rock steady unless leaning on something - I have made a parallelogram mount out of an old tripod. I have also seen three lengths of wood in a H shape (to rest your elbows on) used to good effect (or lie down!).

A lot of people say these are good too Helios - Helios Naturesport-Plus

many others say that the Celestron 15x70's are excellent and with a bit more power you'd pick more up but the steadying problem gets worse.

with mine, I can easily see the beehive, Pleiades of course, Hyades, M35, double cluster, Orion Nebula (small) and several others with bins. great for getting an idea where things are too before swinging the scope round.

where do you live? you'd be welcome to try mine before you buy if close to Stockport? You could also see the 33mm SWAN in action in my OMNI120.

[John]

Don't forget that you will need to budget for a good tripod if you buy the binoculars, unless you have one already of course. The 15x70's can be hand held for a short time but need to be on a tripod to make the best of them.

[yeti monster]

Even the 20x60s I use at work are too heavy for any prolonged observing, I usually end up laying down and supporting the weight of the binos against my head. A good, sturdy tripod is a must with BIG bins, and a bonus too, as you can track fast moving objects, such as satellites and ISS, with them.

A pair of 10x50s (LIDL?) are easy to carry about and offer decent enough widefield views, especially if you are hunting/learning the skies.

[Wurzil]

Thanks for reminding me about the tripod guys - I may be able to borrow one of my brother who does photography as a hobby. Am I right in thinking i dont have to spend a fortune on the bins (as LIDL was mentioned) or does quality count like it does in scopes??

The reason i say this is cos i have about £100 i can spend this month and if i economise on the bins, i can probably get a rigel quick finder and a baader filter and a moon filter which i need as well. You know how it is, so many things to buy so little money to buy it with.

Shane (of the OMNI massive!) - Thanks very much for the invite matey but Ive just checked google maps and i live hundreds and hundreds of miles away (in Kent) in fact I dont think ive ever been as far north as stockport (furthest north was stoke on trent or snowdon I think)!! Hows that new dob going by the way - or are you having the customary month of cloud that you get after buying some new equipment??

Ive just had an idea for the binos use - sun lounger on the veranda + extension lead to an electric blanket to cover up with. My neighbours probably already think im a weird telescope pervert so what the heck.

Ive got a few days now to decide what to get and to look for bargains. Ill post whatever ive plumped for when i order.

ta

warren

[Moonshane]

hi Warren

ha ha - safe, innit. (I can feel my daughters cringing as I type).

No worries - I once went to Stodmarsh on a birdwatching 'twitch' so know how far it is!

The sun lounger is a good idea. I'll be doing that in the summer for sure - beer in hand etc.

Re the tripod, you'll need a mount eg Adaptors - L-Type Binocular Tripod Adapters and it would be a good idea to try and rig something up to attach to the tripod to set the bins off the head a little (like an arm). this will make viewing easier as you won't always be 'inside' the tripod legs. Alternatively, try and make something dovetail shaped to fit into the head of your CG-4? With a tripod of any kind you lose the freedom of bins a little bit. my preference is for 10x50 at the most for this reason although I have not tried anything larger. you do need an aperture of 40-50mm min though as far as I can tell.

quality does count in my view but I reckon that any of the models sold by FLO would be a good buy for the money. like anything, you get what you pay for but in my view, up to a certain price, maybe £100 they are about the same, you then jump to maybe £250 to see a major improvement and then anything above £300 is really only fine tuning the quality so although they are better they are not a massive amount better (maybe with the exception of image stabilising bins of which some are excellent apparently).

[kniclander]

imho the views through 20x80s will give you a totally different viewing experience whereas a new e/p will give you more (albeit better and wider) of the same. But for 20x80s, as people have said, a tripod is a must.

[russ]

I'd plump for the bins first. I had a pair of the Revelation 15x70's (same as the Celestron 15x70) and they were such a useful addition to my setup. Very lightweight for their size, really added something extra to all the main Messiers (especially open/glob clusters) compared to 10x50 bins. I found i used them as soon as there was a break in the clouds.

Sadly i sold them and bought the Jupiter 20x80's......big mistake! Everything that made the 15x70's so good (lightweight, reasonable FOV, handheld use) was absent in the 20x80's. They were too heavy and cumbersome. The field too restricted. Suddenly i had no desire go out with my bins because it was too much of a flaff. A tripod was a must and i hate using bins on a tripod, may as well just setup the scope.

So my vote would go with the Celestron Skymaster or Revelation 15x70.

Russ

[themos]

I have the Revelation 15x70 and can't recommend them (unless you buy an example that you have tested to your satisfaction) as quality seems to vary.

[kniclander]

my feeling re cheap bins - they are not going to perform like better quality bins but, was the view through my cheap 20x80s awesome - yes it was. were stars pinpoint and was light transmission comparable to bins costing 5 times as much? no. were they worth £80? definitely.

[russ]

I have the Revelation 15x70 and can't recommend them (unless you buy an example that you have tested to your satisfaction) as quality seems to vary.

Fortunately i got to try first at Herstmonceux. The Celestron would probably be a better bet quality wise.

my feeling re cheap bins - they are not going to perform like better quality bins but, was the view through my cheap 20x80s awesome - yes it was. were stars pinpoint and was light transmission comparable to bins costing 5 times as much? no. were they worth £80? definitely.

I think had i gone for the 20x80's first and not experienced the 15x70's, i would have been much happier.

I also ordered my Jupiter 20x80 over the net and the first sample were seriously misaligned and had to be returned. I think this helped sour my experience somewhat as well. The views were very nice though. M31 and M42 alone were worth the £80 price tag.

[LukeSkywatcher]

IF you decide to go for the bins (i hope you do), go for the biggest apeture you can afford. If you need to also buy a tripod for the bins (if you dont have one already) then just step down the apeture of the bins until you can arrive at a price you can afford that includes both the bins and tripod.

[kniclander]

IF you decide to go for the bins (i hope you do), go for the biggest apeture you can afford. If you need to also buy a tripod for the bins (if you dont have one already) then just step down the apeture of the bins until you can arrive at a price you can afford that includes both the bins and tripod.

how would that help? it won't make the magnification any lower or the bins any lighter?

[LukeSkywatcher]

how would that help? it won't make the magnification any lower or the bins any lighter?

All i mean is stay on budget. Go for bins that also allow you to buy a tripod also,so you get both within budget. No point in buying 15X,20x,25X and having no cash left over to buy a tripod.

Sorry if i wasnt clear.

[acey]

I do all my bino observing without tripod as, for me, the whole point of bins is simplicity, and a workable bino mount needs to be quite elaborate if you're not going to end up with neck-ache.

I have 10x50 Olympus, 9x63 Meade and 15x70 Helios. All fine for what they do. If I was going to keep just one it would be the 15x70, as the extra mag and aperture giveds more interesting views - even though the edge of field is so soft as to make every near-edge star look nebulous. I used the 15x70s to do a lot of southerly Messiers and Caldwells when on holiday in Canaries etc.

A rule of thumb for how much you'll see with binos is to multiply the 2 figures, i.e. 10x50=500, with bigger being better.

But the most important thing, IMHO, is not which binos you use, but the sky you use them under. I had a superb view of M104 with the 10x50s in Greece and could clearly see the galaxy's sombrero shape.

[Wurzil]

Thanks all - I think ive decided on a pair of 15x70s, probably the celestron ones of of FLO - although ive seen a set of adler 15x70s for £50 on the dreaded scopes and skies Adler Optik Adler Kosmos 15x70 high powered binoculars

anyone used a pair of these (im not going to risk getting them without a recommendation).

My endless astro-shopping list now reads:

Binos - this payday

rigel quickfinder - this payday

Baader neodymium filter - possibly this payday

neutral/moon filter - next payday

2" Adler 38mm EP - next payday

2" Mirror diagonal - next payday

Tripod for binos - possibly borrowed (or i might try something with my cg-4 hmmm)

Motors for mount - after summer holiday

better medium high power EP (10mm possibly circle t ortho) - after summer holiday

fringe killer filter - after summer holiday

Big dob or or 6" nexstar SCT with goto

MY GOD i better do some overtime!!!!! I never realised what i was getting myself into with this hobby:)

Thanks again all

Warren

[brantuk]

The 15x70 Celestrons are really good but do need a camera tripod (requires adaptor) for prolonged periods. It's no time to set up and useful on cloudy nights with occasional gaps. The Lidl 10x50's are terrific value for money if you select a well collimated set.

However - you can't beat the views in a decent pair of binoviewers - changes the whole experience massively. If you can stretch another 50-60 quid get the W/O ones - rated best in price bracket in SAN. And you get the two ep's and a barlow included.

[russ]

I know they cost more but go with the Celestron. As i said in my earlier post, i went with the Adler and my first pair were out of alignment. I think the QC will be better with the Celestron's. Depends if you think a bit of possible hassle is worth saving £30 (I did - got lucky with the Revelation but luck ran out with the Adler).

[Wurzil]

Ok the celestron 15x70s it is. Ill get that and my rigel quickifinder and the tripiod adapter this month (hopefully borrowing a tripod from my brother until i purchase my own - which'll probably be end of march).

Dont worry, ive taken the tripod requirement on board 100% - as my hands are not the steadiest (especially when its COLD)

The binoviewers would be amazing but i havent got the extra cash to buy pairs of EPs - i think it would make my expensive hobby even more expensive. Maybe Id changed my mind if i looked through a set.

thanks for helping with my decision everyone

Warren

[Wurzil]

And you get the two ep's and a barlow included.

ahhh that is good value for £145 isnt it!! I think im still going to get the bins this month though, as most people on here seem to have them - they appear to be a bit more of a necessity. but i have to say that im very intrigued by the binoviews for that price and whats included......damn this expensive hobby

[RikM]

I would be lost without my bins.

Rik

[BobinKy]

I recommend your next purchase be a pair of binoculars--but lower power (with wider field of view). Any affordable 8x42 or 10x50. The 15x70 and 20x80 go deeper, but if you really want to scan the Milky Way, go with an 8x42.

[Wurzil]

Hi there

Just to say that I went for a pair of 10x50s (cheapy celestron upclose ones with 7degree FOV) in the end, so i could spend the money saved on a rigel quickfinder, a moon filter, LP filter and a red torch from FLO. Spot on service and prompt delivery from FLO again by the way.

w

[russ]

Nicely done Warren. A good pair of 10x50's is a good addition to the kit bag.

Perhaps save up for the SWAN later down the road. It's definitely still worth going down that road. The probably wouldn't even need a 38mm. The 32mm will give a 2.24deg true field of view with your 120. And a 1.86deg fov in the 250PX. Believe me, it's well worth having.

Russ