Expert Advice Needed!!!

[johnkirkpatrick]

Ok here's my dilemma! I've had my scope (see sig) for a month now and its great for viewing Moon, Star clusters and Nebulae, but viewing the planets just doesn't work. So after my wedding and going to buy a new one from the friendly steve at FLO. I have a reflector and was wondering if a Refractor is a better scope or even the Dob? I went for the Reflector as i thought it looked better, lol.

I'm looking for a good al-rounder, And if poss a chance to see Andromeda but mainly DSO's but with the ability to have decent planetary views. My budget is going to be about £700.

I was thinking of getting a Skywatcher Explorer 200P EQ5 GOTO (what the goto does I dont know) if anyone can give me good advice....

I'm all ears.

JohnK:confused:

[jobe]

a Goto is a computerised way of finding all the goodies.

it has a display where you bring up the name of what you want to find and it points in the right direction.

as for the rest you really do need to wait for an experts help

jobe

[coxie]

i have a goto its good if you dont know your way around but if you do then a sacrifice of the goto will allow more budget for a better scope

[gary1968]

Refractors or SCT's are best for planets. Reflectors are beter for DSO' as you can get bigger for the same cash.

I had the Celestron version of the 200p, C8N, it was a fantastic scope and I really regret selling it, its the only bit of astro kit that I have sold that I wish I still had. Anyway, the 200P will be a great DSO scope and a reasonable planetary scope.

For your budget and if goto is not important to you I would recomend that you get the 200P on a HEQ5 rather than the EQ5, much better heavier mount and will serve your upgrade path better in the future as the EQ5 is at the top of it range with a 200P.

Hope that helps,

Gary

[michael.h.f.wilkinson]

Newtonian reflectors can produce excellent images of planets, if well collimated. I have an SCT mainly because they are compact. I can sling t in the back of my car, and still have room for stuff the missus and the kids want to bring along. That would not work with an 8" Newtonian.

If you have been looking at Mars, note that it is a difficult planet, requiring patience to see the details. Saturn is coming into view for longer now, and that should be easier.

[Whippy]

An 8" reflector like tthe one you're looking at is a great all rounder. Large enough to give nice views on plenty of DSO's while also being decent on the planets. It's not too large either so you don't have to be a bodybuilder to set the thing up!

Tony..

[ollypenrice]

All the optical configurations have their pros and cons. Refractors are expnsive to make, then come catadioptrics (SCT Mak etc) and Newtonians are the cheapest. This is not antiNewt. It means that for a given budget your size of aperture goes Newt (biggest), Cat, refractor (smallest).

Next, from a budget point of view, comes the cost of the mount. The cheapest is the push-pull dob and the most expensive is the Go To equatorial. How much budget do you wish to deploy on the mount and how much on the glass?

At low powers for deep sky a Dob is fine. A motorized mount mount is better for lunar and planetary.

Personally I would go for aperture and glass but others might well choose differently.

Olly

[johnkirkpatrick]

Thanks for the feed back, aperture is what I think I really want but a good solid mount too as the one I have (equatorial cg3) is rubbish my views wobble far to violently even when turning the focus knobs or the slowmo cables more so when using the 10mm ep and worse still using it with a barlow? as every slight touch of the scope takes a few seconds to calm down and not shake. making focusing very hard indeed.

[ollypenrice]

Yes. One of the nice things about a good dob mount is its stability, though in my case our dob is rather large and banging your head on it hurts but has little effect on the view!

Olly

[johnkirkpatrick]

Ive spotted this Skywatcher Skyliner 300P Dobsonian is it better than the reflector

i mentioned at star of thread??

[AndyH]

Just to confuse matters further.

There's a 2nd hand Tal 2M for sale on ebay up the road in Dollar, Stirlingshire, for £150 . 6" F8 newt. Great all rounder. Built like a T-34 tank. I've got one and can vouch for it's stunning views. I use the mount to carry my 8" Klev-Cass and 90mm APO.

Cheers,

Andy.

[johnkirkpatrick]

For the 12" dob will it work sitting on grass and gravel??

[Doc]

You will be amazed at what a 300P dob will allow you to see. Under dark skies the whole Messier catalogue will be visible, it will also be fantastic on planets as well. Only thing I think dobs are not that great on, are splitting binary stars.

Placing it on grass will be fine as long as it's not soaking wet as you do not want to get the particle board damp.

Dobs are very easy to convert to "push to" by making azimuth degree circles and using a wixey guage for altitude. So in theory if your base is level you can achieve "Go-to" very cheaply.

Negative points are you need to know your way round the sky and you have to learn to collimate your scope.

Alot of mirror for your money IMO is the way to go.

[Doc]

You will be amazed at what a 300P dob will allow you to see. Under dark skies the whole Messier catalogue will be visible, it will also be fantastic on planets as well. Only thing I think dobs are not that great on, are splitting binary stars.

Placing it on grass will be fine as long as it's not soaking wet as you do not want to get the particle board damp.

Dobs are very easy to convert to "push to" by making azimuth degree circles and using a wixey guage for altitude. So in theory if your base is level you can achieve "Go-to" very cheaply.

Negative points are you need to know your way round the sky and you have to learn to collimate your scope.

Alot of mirror for your money, IMO is the way to go.

[Bizibilder]

For planetry work you will probably need to spend a few bob upgrading your eyepieces as well. I have a SW 200P on an EQ5 and I really like it - its a great all-rounder for visual observing of planets and DSO's BUT the SW eyepieces supplied with it are well below par! I have just bought a couple of better eyepieces and a reasonable Barlow (on advice from posts on this site and from FLO) and now have MUCH better views.

[johnkirkpatrick]

Negative points are you need to know your way round the sky and you have to learn to collimate your scope.

Alot of mirror for your money, IMO is the way to go.

thanks I think this is what I will get, but to collimate??? don't know how

[Doc]

thanks I think this is what I will get, but to collimate??? don't know how

Budget for a Hotech laser collimator, they are so easy to use and highly accurate.

It's daunting at first but after you have done it a few times it's easy.

[michael.h.f.wilkinson]

I agree with Doc, collimation should not be too daunting (after all, I built and collimated my first 6" Newtonian at age 17, less critical in an F/8, but still important). With modern tools it is WAY easier.

Michael

[jobe]

Budget for a Hotech laser collimator, they are so easy to use and highly accurate.

It's daunting at first but after you have done it a few times it's easy.

i'll vouch for this John. got my scope only a week or so ago, read a few quides but found collimating easier than it sounded.

depending how accurate you want to be it can be done in a minute or two.

jobe

[Chris H]

If you decide to go for the 12 inch dob I recommend that you go and see one before you buy. Given your location you may have to travel but the Skywatcher 300 even in truss form is a big beast and you may be surprised at how big it is. If you went for the 10 inch it would leave you some money over for some better eyepieces.

[WayBig]

John

Lots of good upgrade advice here - but have you mentioned why your scope "doesnt work" for planetary viewing?

The kit you've got should give a max magnification of x130 (i think), so you should be able to see jupiters coloud bands and saturns rings - though they would be small.

I would have thought you could push your scope to over 200x magnification with a different eyepiece which should offer good views of planets and would be a cheaper upgrade path.

Goto would help with locating DSOs and clusters (esp in a light polluted area) - but the main planets are easy to find (and the ones that arent easy to find arent nearly as interesting) so you should be ok with manually finding them and using your motor drive to track them.

I find I get fewer focussing wobbles if I have the tripod at the lowest setting and sit down for viewing. An electronic focusser might help and would only cost around £50.

....just giving a few other options before you're talked into parting with £700!

[johnkirkpatrick]

John

Lots of good upgrade advice here - but have you mentioned why your scope "doesnt work" for planetary viewing?

The kit you've got should give a max magnification of x130 (i think), so you should be able to see jupiters coloud bands and saturns rings - though they would be small.

I would have thought you could push your scope to over 200x magnification with a different eyepiece which should offer good views of planets and would be a cheaper upgrade path.

....just giving a few other options before you're talked into parting with £700!

x130 is my max just now and its not enuff, saturn is very very small, a small disk with a line though it and mars is a small orange disk defo no surface detail.

[chuenmanc]

I used to own an 8" dob, and found that it didn't suit being used in my small garden. The low pivot point mean't that I couldn't see anything low in the sky, and anything low that I *could* see involved crouching down near the ground. I guess you could put the dob on a patio table (we don't have one) but from what I gather the 300p is pretty heavy. Having a refractor or SCT/MCT on a tripod works much better for me.

[ZOG]

First of all lets get this clear, a dob is a newtonian. Its called a Dobsonian after John Dobson who invented the dob mount.

I have the 300p flextube, it is big, even in it's collapsed state but I can carry it in and out of the car in 2 parts and I,m 56 and nowhere near fit.

As to the views, they will blow you away after using the 130p

The bottom line is, if you don't think you'll be happy with transporting the dob, don't get one, but if you intend to use it in the garden or close to home, optics wise, it's the best you'll get for your cash.

[WayBig]

x130 is my max just now and its not enuff, saturn is very very small, a small disk with a line though it and mars is a small orange disk defo no surface detail.

True about mars - at 200x it's just a small orange disc for me too, I think its tricky to get detail from mars without a bigger scope.

Under the right conditions saturn looks ok at 200x. On monday evening it looked washed out, but a week earlier I was able to see more detail, the moon seems to spoil things a bit at the moment.

A few points that i've picked up on this forum are

- in the UK the max magnification you can hope to use is around x350, due to atmospheric conditions, and assuming you can collect enough light to see anything at that magnification

- you have to get used to seeing detail in small images.

A 5mm eyepiece plus your barlow would give you x260 mag, shorter focal length eyepieces obviously give higher mag and might mean you dont need to use the barlow....try asking for a recommened eyepiece here...you'll get a flurry of recommendations!

Also - there seems to be a good 2nd hand market, you may be able to either pick one up used on this site, or buy new and resell it for only a small loss if it doesnt suit.

The higher mag will amplify your focus wobbles though

Of course, you could buy a big dob!