Another classic scope, Swift / Towa 80mm

[philj]

I really must stop looking on that internet auction site after I have had a glass of vino, I end up buying things:D

Saw this Swift 80mm 12000mm (aka Towa 339) and just had to have it. These are superb elegant looking scopes and this one shows signs of light use and only needed an optics clean and a homebrew adapter to fit 11/4" eyepieces.

So with this and my 1961 Swift 839 60mm makes a pair of Swifts, not a flock yet though, Im working on that.

Tonight promises to be clear so I shall give a 1st light report afterwards

[Towa]

Yep, that's a 339 made by Towa. I use one, and have found it to be a superb telescope. This year my scope has given me some wonderful views of Jupiter, with plenty of detail being seen.

The glass in these scopes is very good in-deed. I fitted a Sky-watcher focus mount to mine and use it with binoviewers.

The finder bracket on your scope would appear to date it as one made in the 1970's. My 339 was made in the late 1980's.

Fantastic scopes.

[philj]

Hi Towa

Yep the 339 had and still has a good reputation. However not this one tonight, tried it on Jupiter and the moon and it has collimation issues. Im sure it'll collimate OK but as Ive never done it before I will leave it for rough collimation in daylight then fine collimation on a star.

I tried a few adjustments but tonight is just too cold to be messing with a procedure Ive never done in the dark . I shall do some Ha imaging instead

Now thats interesting Towa, the SW focuser you fitted ,is that the crayford style? If I get this wouking OK I was thinking of doing a similar mod.

Cheers

Phil

[John]

What an elegant looking scope.

Looks a bit like my 1960's 60mm Tasco on steriods !

Hope you get it collimated soon - I've recently adjusted the collimation on my 5" F/9.4 refractor and it's fairly straightforward using a simple cheshire type eyepiece.

John

[Towa]

Now thats interesting Towa, the SW focuser you fitted ,is that the crayford style? If I get this wouking OK I was thinking of doing a similar mod.

Cheers

Phil

Phil

I up-graded the focus mount on my 120mm f/8.3 scope with a SW crayford and used the original focus mount on the 339, but the crayford unit will still do the job as it is the same flange size.

The 339 tube is smaller than the flange on the SW focus mount, So I had to machine an adaptor to marry the two up. It works great with binoviewers, if I want to go back to cyclops viewing then you need to use about 6 inches of extension tubes, but I machined an extra long extension tube which does a great job.

[philj]

I didnt think it would be a straight forward plug & play job fitting a SW focuser. Unfortunately my lathe isnt big enough for a flange that size. Also I thought the travel of a SW focuser is as you say too short and extension tubes are required.

Had another play with collimation last night whilst main rig was on auto but got nowhere fast, my fingers were freezing after 1/2 hour.

John, unfortunately I just sold my laser collimator the other week, thinking I am all refractors now and why do I need it, typical:D . Ill knock something up on the lathe in the fashion of a cheshire and then give it another go.

Phil

[F15Rules]

Hi Phil,

A fabulous find and great write up!

I am lucky enough to own one of these as well, it's a Topic 80mm F1200mm looking identical to yours.

It is a superb performer and one of my favourite ever scopes. I use modern eyepieces via a hybrid diagonal (although the supplied EPs are pretty good, just small) and it is hard to beat on doubles and the Moon.

Imagine these days a collimatable OG cell on an 80mm scope!

I think mine dates from the mid-late 70s but cannot tell for sure. It is in good condition, perhaps not as pristine as yours, but the mount is very smooth and the longest slo motions I have ever seen mean it is always easy to manoevre the scope to any part of the sky.

I'm attaching a few pics for interest, sorry they are not better quality like yours, but will give you an idea.

I'm sure you will soon be able to get yours collimated properly:)

cheers

Dave

[F15Rules]

Oops! Did you spot my deliberate mistake?? the last picture is my Tasco 14TE 60mm F15 refractor, again F15, dating from 1969. I have this for sale on UK Astro simply because I have too many scopes and SWMBO requires that I thin out my collection! A lovely little scope, again great on doubles and the moon.

The Tal 100RS is shown also on one of the pics, and the other smaller refractor is a 60mm H&G from 1969 which I recently sold to a good home. I just love refractors!!

[Neil27]

Lovely scope Phil hope you get it sorted, would love a view through that if I get chance to pop up before Christmas.

Also fine collection of refractors there Dave....

Yep I guess you like glass rather than mirrors....!

[philj]

Wow Dave and I thought I was bad with the refractors I have:D Great collection there.

Heres a pic of my 2 swifts, the 1970s 80mm and the 1961 60mm

Neil

Still collimating at the moment but yep Ill try and give you a bell when I get chance, facing a minor stint in hopital later this week so I am not planning much at the mo but will get in touch

!!!!Stop press!!!! Never mind the collimation I got the accessory tray lamp working:hello2:

[F15Rules]

Hi Neil,

Lovely scopes you have there..the Swifts had that very distinctive grey paintwork,looks great. I saw a Swift 3" refractor on Ebay earlythis year, was beautiful, with full complement of accessories, eps and wooden crate..it was sold by a guy in the Midlands with whom I corresponded a little. I think he wanted to sell to me and I bid up to £160 plus, but it actually went to a buyer in Spain for £350!!

So don't be tempted to give yours away...

I've also got a nice 80s Prinz 500 60mm F15 refractor in nice dark blue paintwork with the working light accessory tray and all original accessories including good quality 6x30mm finder (cardboard foam lined box, not wooden), and this has to go soon. It's in immaculate condition, if anyone is interested send me a pm before it goes up for sale on the open market?

cheers

Dave

[philj]

A night spent with the scope on the bench and a laser sorted the collimation but the image was still bad. So I stripped the objective and found the ring spacers between both elements, should be one between cell and 1st element and one between elements) also the front element was back to front. Sheesh someone who hadn't a clue had a real mess with this scope

Still all sorted now, managed to get a quick look at Jupiter and all was well, a very nice clean image despite atmospherics with hardly any false colour.

However, I couldn't put up with the 70s wobbly mount no matter how elegant it looks so I used the clambshell, made up a DT bar on the mill and fitted it all on my HEQ5 mobile rig. Much steadier and a perfect height for such a long scope.

Can't wait for a good night to try this out properly now

Philj

[F15Rules]

Phil

That rig looks just fabulous now, congratulations!! Bet it's rock solid on your HEQ5..

let us know how the views are...when we ever get a clear night:p

cheers

Dave

[Solar B]

How Wonderful to see such Fabulous Refractors

Brian

[Towa]

Phil

I've done the same thing with my 339 scope. The Towa mounts are very basic in their

level of engineering. I always strip my classic mounts down and re-grease, and find that

this does improve them. However I wanted to use my 339 on a motorised mounting

so fitted a dovetail bar and now use the scope on an EQ5.

The old mounting still has it uses as it is fitted to take a small Mak tube, and with that

scope it works very well.

[F15Rules]

I must be lucky with mine..the mount is buttery smooth, and all I've done to it is spray on a little WD40...I also find the wooden tripod quite stable unless it's windy..but I am considering some 80mm tube rings/dovetail so I can mount it on my CG-5.

Has anyone EVER seen longer slow motion controls than on these scopes?? so much easier to use than the plastic knobs supplied as stock on the Synta type mounts..

I confess I sometimes just make an excuse to pop out to the garage just to look admiringly at the Towa and my Tal 125R..how sad is that??

...beats watching SCD and X Factor though!

[Towa]

Has anyone EVER seen longer slow motion controls than on these scopes?? so much easier to use than the plastic knobs supplied as stock on the Synta type mounts..

I confess I sometimes just make an excuse to pop out to the garage just to look admiringly at the Towa and my Tal 125R..how sad is that??

...beats watching SCD and X Factor though!

Not sad at all Dave, I do it all the time. My Dixons 76.2mm(Kenko TA-1250) has a tube that is even longer than the 339,

and now that I've made an extra long dewshield it is about 24 inches longer than the Towa, and boy does it look sweet.

The Towa slow motion controls really are something else, I've never seen any longer ones on a scope in that aperture range.

[philj]

I reckon the Towa slow mos must be the longest, never seen any longer in all my years.

Agreed, not sad at all, they are something to admire. The Towa has been residing in my den (spare room) by the pc for the past week, its like a work of art IMHO:D The only time it was moved was to take it outside for testing and into the conservatory for fitting to the HEQ5, too tall for the den on that rig

Towa, the 339 mount has now been mothballed after a refurbish. I was tempted to add an EQ2 single RA drive but I am spoilt with the HEQ5 and CGE and cannot abide any shake or wobble in mounts, even though the 339 mount is good for its day its still not solid by todays standards.

Made a cheshire ep/laser collimator today on the lathe and collimation looks spot on now so hopefully if tomorrow night is clearish I may get chance to give a report on how it all works.

Phil

[philj]

Well 1st proper light after recollimation the other night and things are looking good so far. Conditions werent the best, high winds and scudding clouds plus I was recovering from a gastroscopy the day before so wasn't all that fit for staying out for a long time in the cold.

Anyrode, star tests were spot on, nice even airy discs in and out of focus, no evidence of coma so I got the collimation right.

No fog around bright stars either so the reversing the front element of the objective seems to have done the trick.

Conditions were not right for Jupiter but I had a look anyway and it was far better than before but still could not get a good sharp focus but a couple of belts wre evident but a bit of colour fringing was still there.

So I took a look at the moon next even through a light mist it was impressive at 40x and right up to 150x but there was still a bit of fringing on the bright limbs of the craters on the terminator. So I experimented a bit by rotating the diagonal, all of a sudden after 90 degrees the colour went and I had a lovely fringless view. So I have alignment issues elsewhere, probably in the focuser / drawer tube.

Not to be put off I slewed over to Mars which was in the same patch of thin mist as the moon and the most I could get was about 100x before things went wobbly and then all I could see was it was a gibbous shape with no details on the planet at all.

So I spent the next half hour bagging doubles between clouds before I was completely clouded out. Now I am not a double star observer but I think I could get into it with this scope.

So, still a few alignment issues but I reckon I am almost there. Methinks its a case of rotating the front objective element and a little focuser alignment now.

Phil

PS Just found out of a classic scope forum the serial no for my 60mm Swift and the logo make it a 1964 Takahashi made scope, Yehey I have a Tak :-)

[F15Rules]

Hi Phil,

Talking of Swifts, does anyone know who got the Swift 831 on ebay today? Went for £137 in the end, not bad if the condition was ok..had original EPs and accessories but was on an altaz mount, not the EQ you'd expect.

Towa, was interested in your comments on your Dixons 76.2mm refractor...would that have been the Prinz 660 in the 70s? I remember seeing one in Dixons shop window in the early 70s when I was a teenager, and drooling over it..I remember it was up for £59.95 which was a small fortune then!

Their range of Prinz' went 100, 330, 440, 550, 660. All but the 660 were 60mm, all F13 or F15, and only the 660 was bigger, at 76mm, I think F16. They were finished in a kind of metallic grey colour, and white, quite Swift like in a way. I was chuffed when Santa brought me a 440, on a lovely little EQ mount - it was a Towa built scope, I know now, and I had so much fun with it.

Would be good to see pix of yours Towa?

something to do while we are waiting in vain for a really good, calm clear nite!

cheers

Dave

[Towa]

Hi Phil,

Towa, was interested in your comments on your Dixons 76.2mm refractor...would that have been the Prinz 660 in the 70s? I remember seeing one in Dixons shop window in the early 70s when I was a teenager, and drooling over it..I remember it was up for £59.95 which was a small fortune then!

Dave

Dave

Steve M M posted a picture of his circle K 76.2mm f/16 scope on Cloudy nights. This is the same as my 660 scope,

apart from the dewsheild which is black on my scope.

http://www.cloudynights.com/ubbthreads/attachments/3224468-IMG_0359.JPG

Yes, mine is a branded Prinz Optics #666, made by Kenko (model No. TA-1250)

circa. 1966. By 1974, Kenko had changed the dew shield and tube mount bracket,

which comes in handy for dating various models.

The optical quality of Kenko was variable, but all the 660 models I've looked

through have been very good. The one I've been using lately, is every bit as good

as my Towa 339. This evening I was observing Jupiter with the 660 and my

Evostar 120mm f/8, while the Evostar revealed more detail, the most pleasing

view to my eye was with the 660.

The 660 easily shows me the companion of the double star delta Cygni, while Splitting

epsilon Lyrae is a breeze. Its 76.2mm lens is showing some nice detail on Mars, and lately

I've picked-up 3 craterlets in Plato. I enjoy using all classic scopes, but I have to admit

that the 660 is quickly becoming one of my all-time favourites.

The 660 is quite a bit longer in length when compared to the Towa 339. I actually

cut 5 inches off the tube length so that I can use binoviewers without a barlow,

and I get some excellent views. All the units that I've seen have unpainted baffles

and central section of the internal tube, when you see the length of the OTA you

can understand why. However with care it is possible to paint the inside of the tube.

I've found that the earlier Kenko mounts are slightly better than the Towa units. It has some

very nice touches to it, both external and internal. Some of the internal machining is far superior

to any Towa unit that I've stripped down. The focus mount is also of better construction

when compared against my 339 unit.

All in all, it is a very nice scope, and if I could get another one at the right price then

I would jump at the chance.

[yeti monster]

Some lovely old scopes there chaps. I am joining this classic scope forum, of which you speak as I'd like to date my old Prinz optics reflector, and locate an accessory tray for it if possible. All I could say right now is that it is 100mm and has a nice wooden tripod. I had thought of upgrading the focuser to 1.25", but as I expect to be recieving a few 0.965 EPs and a Barlow, I'll be happy to keep it as is.

[Towa]

Hi yeti Monster

Your scope sounds most interesting, any chance of a pictue or a link to one. Chances are it is a Towa made scope, does it have the classic Towa equatorial mount?

Interestingly, I cannot see a Towa 100mm reflector in their line up, but Kenko most definitely made 100mm reflectors, so it might be one of those.

[Mark at Beaufort]

I saw the Swift 831 on ebay and did not win the bid - unfortunately. I had a passion to buy a Swift in the 1960s but could never quite afford one. It is interesting that when the Swift scope appeared on ebay I googled the topic and found an intetesting article dated 2006 by John W Siple for The Rose Astronomers. In the last paragraph of a 3 page article he suggested that a good quality Swift 831 was fetching between $500 and $650.

So as F15 Rules has stated don't undervalue one of these classic scopes.

Perhaps I might win the next ebay auction!!

mark

[philj]

It certainly wasn't me that got the Swift Dave, I was watching that one as well. A nice scope that and at a good price

Mark, not if I or Dave get there first :-)